Curious question for Clarke on his creations...

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FoxdenVixen

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I don't expect you to give away all your secrets on how you come up with all of your wonderful juices, but I was wondering how you go about creating them with just a little detail. What I mean is how do you decide on the flavor and how long it takes for you to get to what you want it to be. I am not sure that makes sense. Take for instance Frenilla. I do know that you steep your own vanilla beans and use different varieties of vanilla beans. Now there has to be more than just the steeped vanilla beans in there. So you pick flavor A and flavor B, mix it. Test it. Decide to add flavor C, mix it. Test it. Stuff like that. How long does it take you to come up with a new flavor? If you can't divulge this information, I understand.
 

Kent Brooks

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I don't expect you to give away all your secrets on how you come up with all of your wonderful juices, but I was wondering how you go about creating them with just a little detail. What I mean is how do you decide on the flavor and how long it takes for you to get to what you want it to be. I am not sure that makes sense. Take for instance Frenilla. I do know that you steep your own vanilla beans and use different varieties of vanilla beans. Now there has to be more than just the steeped vanilla beans in there. So you pick flavor A and flavor B, mix it. Test it. Decide to add flavor C, mix it. Test it. Stuff like that. How long does it take you to come up with a new flavor? If you can't divulge this information, I understand.

On average - development takes 6-8 weeks minimum.

With regard to flavor selection - we try to the degree it's possible to listen to feedback from the group here. We really *do* listen - if we read a suggestion and we determine that a particular flavor profile would be both "doable" and "a good fit for our style" then we'll start laying the ground work to survey the field of available resources and putting them through the paces.

over time we have a database of interesting information that has decreased development time... take, caramel for example... I've tested every caramel that's presently available on the market. Not only do I know what I think they taste like, I perfer to drill down to the actual chemical composition... I want to know HOW the flavoring companies are making those flavors. Over time, knowing and understanding the properties of the base components of flavoring can help you predict the additive and multiplicative effects of combining them in various ratios.

It's the "simple" flavors that I pay the most attention to. Take, vanilla, for example - absolutely nothing simple about it. Vanilla beans come in over 100 different species, and are "grouped" into three primary varieties... Vanilla Planifolia, Vanilla Tahitensis and Vanilla Pompona. My extract is comparatively simple - I use (4) different species of beans from two different categories. By virtue of the number of possible combinations, "cloning" CLS/CB/Frenilla is statistically impossible... the chances anyone would identify the 4 species we use, and the ratios we use to combine them, and the process we employ to arrive at the final product... a long shot.
 

Kent Brooks

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Naturally extracted tobacco is even more complex than Vanilla - not only do you have to take the type and origin of the tobacco (species) into consideration, but you also have to take the methodology involved in curing it. Air, Sun, Fire, Flue - all produce different effects.
 

Sloth Tonight

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Naturally extracted tobacco is even more complex than Vanilla - not only do you have to take the type and origin of the tobacco (species) into consideration, but you also have to take the methodology involved in curing it. Air, Sun, Fire, Flue - all produce different effects.

wait a minute...FLUE?! you mean FLU!?!? No wonder you call it the virus!!! :laugh:
 

EvilBeast

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On average - development takes 6-8 weeks minimum.

With regard to flavor selection - we try to the degree it's possible to listen to feedback from the group here. We really *do* listen - if we read a suggestion and we determine that a particular flavor profile would be both "doable" and "a good fit for our style" then we'll start laying the ground work to survey the field of available resources and putting them through the paces.

over time we have a database of interesting information that has decreased development time... take, caramel for example... I've tested every caramel that's presently available on the market. Not only do I know what I think they taste like, I perfer to drill down to the actual chemical composition... I want to know HOW the flavoring companies are making those flavors. Over time, knowing and understanding the properties of the base components of flavoring can help you predict the additive and multiplicative effects of combining them in various ratios.

It's the "simple" flavors that I pay the most attention to. Take, vanilla, for example - absolutely nothing simple about it. Vanilla beans come in over 100 different species, and are "grouped" into three primary varieties... Vanilla Planifolia, Vanilla Tahitensis and Vanilla Pompona. My extract is comparatively simple - I use (4) different species of beans from two different categories. By virtue of the number of possible combinations, "cloning" CLS/CB/Frenilla is statistically impossible... the chances anyone would identify the 4 species we use, and the ratios we use to combine them, and the process we employ to arrive at the final product... a long shot.


And magnets...right:confused:? There has to be magnets in there somewhere....magnets make everything better!:laugh:
 

FoxdenVixen

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On average - development takes 6-8 weeks minimum.

With regard to flavor selection - we try to the degree it's possible to listen to feedback from the group here. We really *do* listen - if we read a suggestion and we determine that a particular flavor profile would be both "doable" and "a good fit for our style" then we'll start laying the ground work to survey the field of available resources and putting them through the paces.

over time we have a database of interesting information that has decreased development time... take, caramel for example... I've tested every caramel that's presently available on the market. Not only do I know what I think they taste like, I perfer to drill down to the actual chemical composition... I want to know HOW the flavoring companies are making those flavors. Over time, knowing and understanding the properties of the base components of flavoring can help you predict the additive and multiplicative effects of combining them in various ratios.

It's the "simple" flavors that I pay the most attention to. Take, vanilla, for example - absolutely nothing simple about it. Vanilla beans come in over 100 different species, and are "grouped" into three primary varieties... Vanilla Planifolia, Vanilla Tahitensis and Vanilla Pompona. My extract is comparatively simple - I use (4) different species of beans from two different categories. By virtue of the number of possible combinations, "cloning" CLS/CB/Frenilla is statistically impossible... the chances anyone would identify the 4 species we use, and the ratios we use to combine them, and the process we employ to arrive at the final product... a long shot.

Thank you for sharing this. This is really something. You go WAAAAY beyond what a lot of other vendors do. They take PG/VG and throw 1 or 2 pre-made (packaged) flavorings in there and that is what they sell. You do get into the science of it.

How long has NT been around? I see from your banner that you are a little over 1 year smoke free. I can imagine you sitting there puffing on some other vendor's juice and saying to yourself, I can do better. The mad scientist in you starts researching everything you can on the types of ingredients that vendors or DIYers use and start digging deeper into things.

I had no idea that there were that many varieties of vanilla beans! Did you actually test them all or just researched the ones that you thought you would try?

I have come to the conclusion that the more advanced juice vendors like you are also either professional chefs or love to cook and I don't mean throw a box of Mac and Cheese on...I mean that these home cooks might be able to get on the Masterchef show! I do know that your profession is not as a chef. It delves into how the mind works and helping people.

Thank you for sharing this with me and the rest of the family. It truly shows how much you love what you do!
 

motabrownie

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And magnets...right:confused:? There has to be magnets in there somewhere....magnets make everything better!:laugh:

Its either magnets or....

86918-Shia-LaBeouf-magic-gif-SNL-dou-qiOs.jpg



EDIT: so apparently animated gifs dont work on ECF :facepalm:
 
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penguiness

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Naturally extracted tobacco is even more complex than Vanilla - not only do you have to take the type and origin of the tobacco (species) into consideration, but you also have to take the methodology involved in curing it. Air, Sun, Fire, Flue - all produce different effects.

I can tell a difference in taste to know a couple of few varieties. I can tell you with certainty how it was cured. You can take the same species from the same field and cure them each of the 5 ways (including freeze dried) and have them come out tasting night and day different.

Sun cured tobacco = sweeter, Fire=smoky, Air=subtle but earthy, Flue=harsh

Not as many varieties of tobacco can hold up for the long duration of air cure and still have any flavor. You have to consider how you are going to cure it before you choose your species.

I have an uncle who used to experiment with different organic tobacco growing and curing processes. One of his growing sections has dirt from other locations so he can test the effects of soil types on his tobacco. The first DIY I tried was using tobacco extracts he made.
 

Kent Brooks

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Thank you for sharing this. This is really something. You go WAAAAY beyond what a lot of other vendors do. They take PG/VG and throw 1 or 2 pre-made (packaged) flavorings in there and that is what they sell. You do get into the science of it.

How long has NT been around? I see from your banner that you are a little over 1 year smoke free. I can imagine you sitting there puffing on some other vendor's juice and saying to yourself, I can do better. The mad scientist in you starts researching everything you can on the types of ingredients that vendors or DIYers use and start digging deeper into things.

I had no idea that there were that many varieties of vanilla beans! Did you actually test them all or just researched the ones that you thought you would try?

I have come to the conclusion that the more advanced juice vendors like you are also either professional chefs or love to cook and I don't mean throw a box of Mac and Cheese on...I mean that these home cooks might be able to get on the Masterchef show! I do know that your profession is not as a chef. It delves into how the mind works and helping people.

Thank you for sharing this with me and the rest of the family. It truly shows how much you love what you do!

I really haven't been "in the game" that long... I started vaping on April 26, 2013 (quit smoking the day I started and haven't had a cigarette since - with the notable exception of a clove that Cherie Pie gave me to mouth hit so I could do some development work on a Clove eLiquid).

I struggled to find liquid that I enjoyed vaping. I mean - there was no shortage of really bad liquid, quite a bit out there that was "eh - okay", some that was "good" - and still a small minority that make me go "WOW." One of the things that really surprised me was that there was very little correlation between price and quality... there are "good vendors" out there at a wide variety of price-points. With a few notable exceptions, all of my liquid has WOW'ed both Katy and I. As a general rule, if we are both WOW'ed, statistically... it will WOW most people. We're vape snobs, but we're FRUGAL vape snobs. We absolute refuse to pay more than .80c/ml for liquid no matter how good it is. Based on average consumption of 2.5ml per day, that's still only $2... less than 1/3 of what I was paying to smoke 1.5 packs a day @ $5/pack. Our goal was to deliver premium liquid experience with no compromises for less than .70c/ml... all while providing an aspect that no other liquid vendor has yet to match - a sense of community support - a sense of "family." I still feel like we are the best overall value in eLiquid - our success and growth is really testament to that. There are options that are more expensive, and there are options that are less expensive - but no vendor offers what we offer at any price-point. If we ever fail to walk-the-walk, please, call us out... we try to "do right" by people in every situation regardless of cost (time or money). I personally spend a ton of time out here exchanging ideas - I try to keep an open mind (and copious notes) while I am here... I feel like the time is well spent. Not only do I enjoy spending the time here on the forum, I've learned as much or more here than I have taught - this is an extremely vibrant community that has embraced an industry that is rapidly changing - unplugging and ignoring the wave would be a critical mistake. Matter of fact, I am about to devote more resources to "listening" - we'll be plugging Beau and Nick in soon!

I'm rambling... good question - I think the point is... Nicoticket has much more to do with the quality of people we have managed to attract and retain. The people who linger here are second to none in their sense of community and their willingness to help each other, share knowledge, and make the total experience of vaping enjoyable. It has much less to do with the contents of the bottles, and more to do with the people who hold the bottles - the people who embrace the wider meaning of what it means to have Nicoticket in the tank.
 
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Kent Brooks

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I can tell a difference in taste to know a couple of few varieties. I can tell you with certainty how it was cured. You can take the same species from the same field and cure them each of the 5 ways (including freeze dried) and have them come out tasting night and day different.

Sun cured tobacco = sweeter, Fire=smoky, Air=subtle but earthy, Flue=harsh

Not as many varieties of tobacco can hold up for the long duration of air cure and still have any flavor. You have to consider how you are going to cure it before you choose your species.

I have an uncle who used to experiment with different organic tobacco growing and curing processes. One of his growing sections has dirt from other locations so he can test the effects of soil types on his tobacco. The first DIY I tried was using tobacco extracts he made.

Flue doesn't have to be harsh - a good Flue Cured Virgina Bright can have a nice mild/mellow finish. It's one of the parts of my NET.
 

penguiness

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Flue doesn't have to be harsh - a good Flue Cured Virgina Bright can have a nice mild/mellow finish. It's one of the parts of my NET.

Yes, and there are exceptions to everything depending on length of cure, species of tobacco, type of soil, etc... You can take 4 species and have 100 unique tastes. Not that I have tasted that many individually. And none of the leaf samples I have tried were smoked. They were all leaf chews in very small portions which tastes completely different!
 

Kent Brooks

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Yes, and there are exceptions to everything depending on length of cure, species of tobacco, type of soil, etc... You can take 4 species and have 100 unique tastes. Not that I have tasted that many individually. And none of the leaf samples I have tried were smoked. They were all leaf chews in very small portions which tastes completely different!

Blending is really fun - definitely an art in and of itself. I absolutely love love love working with NETs - wish I had more time to do it.
 

penguiness

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Blending is really fun - definitely an art in and of itself. I absolutely love love love working with NETs - wish I had more time to do it.

Not to mention the great amount of patience! I can imagine you would also need lengthy steep times on combined NET's,to arrive at what the finished product would be like as a stable profile.
 

Cullin Kin

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Well, Mr. Kent Brooks... Your scientific process is impeccable and has truly paid off. I got home from a road trip today and my Nicoticket order was waiting there for me. I have them steeping now, but I couldn't resist giving them a try. I got Creme Brûlée, Custard's Last Stand, and Grandma's Cinnamon Danish. My god are they incredible. You have another completely satisfied customer and I'm very happy to be part of the Nicoticket family.
 

Kent Brooks

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Well, Mr. Kent Brooks... Your scientific process is impeccable and has truly paid off. I got home from a road trip today and my Nicoticket order was waiting there for me. I have them steeping now, but I couldn't resist giving them a try. I got Creme Brûlée, Custard's Last Stand, and Grandma's Cinnamon Danish. My god are they incredible. You have another completely satisfied customer and I'm very happy to be part of the Nicoticket family.

Glad the liquid found you well Cullin! (love the spidey AVI by the way!)

For the most part, no need to steep the liquid unless it appears to need it based on your personal palate - especially the GCD... CLS and CB will continue to improve with time, but due to the healthy pre-steep, 80% of the steeping torture has been endured for you.

Welcome to the NuT house!~
 

Cullin Kin

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Glad the liquid found you well Cullin! (love the spidey AVI by the way!)

For the most part, no need to steep the liquid unless it appears to need it based on your personal palate - especially the GCD... CLS and CB will continue to improve with time, but due to the healthy pre-steep, 80% of the steeping torture has been endured for you.

Welcome to the NuT house!~

It definitely did indeed! I'm super intrigued by the PB&J flavor. Mmmmmm. I just saw on the bottle it said recommended 10-14 days steep time but that's amazing that I don't have to! I think they taste amazing already so thats a plus. Keep up the great work sir! Thanks again!

P.S. I am Spiderman o_O lol
 

Megan Kogijiki Ratchford

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It definitely did indeed! I'm super intrigued by the PB&J flavor. Mmmmmm. I just saw on the bottle it said recommended 10-14 days steep time but that's amazing that I don't have to! I think they taste amazing already so thats a plus. Keep up the great work sir! Thanks again!

P.S. I am Spiderman o_O lol

I can say with absolute confidence that there is never a dud on the NT line. One or another may not appeal to you by the flavors but if you had a choice to vape those over another brand they will still outshine in comparison! :thumb:

And welcome to the family!! :headbang:
 
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