D.i.y juice
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You need to talk with Rachelcoffe - she's the DIY queen around here.
I don't DIY - tried and failed, but others here rave about Rachel's knowledge and friendly help.
Drop her a pm. She's pretty busy right now - you know - doing stuff - but I'm sure she'd help you get started.
I don't DIY - tried and failed, but others here rave about Rachel's knowledge and friendly help.
Drop her a pm. She's pretty busy right now - you know - doing stuff - but I'm sure she'd help you get started.
Now that you have the basics from Rachel, here are some DIY pointers I have picked up:
I've noticed that my DIY juices get a lot better if I let them steep. This video has some info on steeping:
YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks
If you go with Perfumers Apprentice, go with the 1 ounce bottles. You get a lot of flavoring, and there is a good price break once you hit the 1 ounce bottles. Even if you don't like a particular flavor at first, you might find a use for it later on.
Make sure you get lots of 5ml or 10ml bottles to test your mixes in, flavors tend to stick around in bottles even after you rinse them.
I've noticed that my DIY juices get a lot better if I let them steep. This video has some info on steeping:
YouTube - Steeping Tips and Tricks
If you go with Perfumers Apprentice, go with the 1 ounce bottles. You get a lot of flavoring, and there is a good price break once you hit the 1 ounce bottles. Even if you don't like a particular flavor at first, you might find a use for it later on.
Make sure you get lots of 5ml or 10ml bottles to test your mixes in, flavors tend to stick around in bottles even after you rinse them.
I've tried and failed as well. The only flavors I've tried that I liked straight up were tiramisu from HV although it's strong as balls if yo put too much in, licorice from loranns is like good and plentys,t and that's about I've found a lot of the PA and FA stuff from happy vapor have a weird putrid taste. Especially the colas and root beers I've tried. I can't really explain the taste it's just off. Like ear wax maybe.
Ps after reading this back to myself after posting, I was going to fix all the grammar and spelling errors. As well as the missed wordsm, letters and punctuation marks. But I've decided to leave it as is to remind myself of why I suck.
Ps after reading this back to myself after posting, I was going to fix all the grammar and spelling errors. As well as the missed wordsm, letters and punctuation marks. But I've decided to leave it as is to remind myself of why I suck.
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I appreciate the kind words, AllYourBase.
That said, I don't advise buying 1oz (30mL) bottles of any flavouring that you haven't tried first. I've learned through long experience that sometimes flavours can smell one way, but taste very different when vaped. A few times in the past, I've made the mistake of ordering 15mL bottles of flavours that I'd never tried before, but thought I would like...only to find I hated them.
So when you're trying out a flavour for the very first time...I advise that you go with the 3mL size from Jack at Happy Vaper, or the 4mL size from Perfumer's Apprentice. Once you've found some that you know you like, you can order larger bottles of those flavours (like the 1oz size) from PA with peace of mind.
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Bear in mind too that the 3mL bottles from Jack will arrive a lot faster, & come conveniently in a plastic squeeze bottle with a drip-nozzle. All the sizes from PA directly (including the 4mL) will come in glass bottles instead...which means for convenience of use you'll need to buy empty drip-nozzle squeeze bottles & transfer the flavourings from the glass bottles to them, using disposable pipettes.
Fortunately, both Jack & PA have these items. If you're already ordering from PA, get them there: the wait is a bit longer, but the price is much better. Jack's prices are very affordable too, especially if you only need a few. I've ordered from both sources, & been happy with both.
Happy vaping, friends!
P.S. DemonCleaner...if you'd like, I would be happy to mix up a batch of my favourite - Cola 'Tri' - and send it to you in the mail. I usually mix it at 20mg nic strength, is that ok? Just let me know in a PM if you're interested, & include your mailing address. The Cola 'Tri' is very, very accurate & delicious...you can even taste the bubbles, believe it or not! It's nothing like the 'regular' Cola from PA, which tastes weird (like some sort of chemical-variant of Mountain Dew, blagh).
That said, I don't advise buying 1oz (30mL) bottles of any flavouring that you haven't tried first. I've learned through long experience that sometimes flavours can smell one way, but taste very different when vaped. A few times in the past, I've made the mistake of ordering 15mL bottles of flavours that I'd never tried before, but thought I would like...only to find I hated them.
So when you're trying out a flavour for the very first time...I advise that you go with the 3mL size from Jack at Happy Vaper, or the 4mL size from Perfumer's Apprentice. Once you've found some that you know you like, you can order larger bottles of those flavours (like the 1oz size) from PA with peace of mind.
---
Bear in mind too that the 3mL bottles from Jack will arrive a lot faster, & come conveniently in a plastic squeeze bottle with a drip-nozzle. All the sizes from PA directly (including the 4mL) will come in glass bottles instead...which means for convenience of use you'll need to buy empty drip-nozzle squeeze bottles & transfer the flavourings from the glass bottles to them, using disposable pipettes.
Fortunately, both Jack & PA have these items. If you're already ordering from PA, get them there: the wait is a bit longer, but the price is much better. Jack's prices are very affordable too, especially if you only need a few. I've ordered from both sources, & been happy with both.
Happy vaping, friends!
P.S. DemonCleaner...if you'd like, I would be happy to mix up a batch of my favourite - Cola 'Tri' - and send it to you in the mail. I usually mix it at 20mg nic strength, is that ok? Just let me know in a PM if you're interested, & include your mailing address. The Cola 'Tri' is very, very accurate & delicious...you can even taste the bubbles, believe it or not! It's nothing like the 'regular' Cola from PA, which tastes weird (like some sort of chemical-variant of Mountain Dew, blagh).
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I've got to disagree on the bottle sizes. It took me far more than 4ml of each of my flavorings to get them to a level/mix where I really liked them. If I'd only had 4ml of each of my flavorings to start off, I probably would have given up on DIY. It just isn't enough flavoring to really sink your teeth into DIYing and try a good number of mixes and concentrations.
The thing is, DIY isn't an easy hobby. Your juice is going to suck at first. That's the nature of the beast. I've noticed a lot of people saying they gave up on DIY, and you have to wonder why that is. I think it's because beginners make a half dozen batches and expect some of it to be professional quality, then they are discouraged and give up when it's not. You've got to wonder if that has to do with a lack of supplies to experiment. Like I said before, if I'd only got 4ml of each flavor I have, I wouldn't have ordered any of them again and would likely have given up. But now, after a couple months of mixing and testing, I have found a place for all of my flavors. Even that Raspberry that I hated initially.
Plus, there's the price issue. If you do the math, you'll see the price break at 1 ounce is pretty staggering:
PA 4ml:
$1.40/4ml= 30 cents/ml
HappyVaper 3ml:
$2.00/3ml = 67 cents/ml
PA 1oz:
$5.00/30ml= 16 cents/ml
You're paying between double and quadruple the price for the same flavoring, and you're likely not getting enough of it to give it a fair shot in mixes and different concentrations to find a way to make it work for you. And really, an ounce of flavoring isn't that much. It's not like you have to buy a litre to get the price break. The difference of only around 3 dollars will get you from only having enough to do a couple batches to having enough to last you for close to a year.
On a related note, do the small bottles of flavoring really come in dripper bottles? I can't imagine that being a plus. All DIY liquid measurement really should be done with an eyedropper/syringe with graduation marks. That way you know exactly what your nicotine level is at, and you can create flavor recipes that you know will be consistent every time. I've noticed that just a few too many drops of flavor can make all the difference between a good juice and a crappy juice.
On the subject of dropper bottles, I think they should only be used to hold the finished product. One of the biggest issues I had as a beginner was the fact that I measured everything in 'drops'. A lot of DIY calculators say to use 'X number of drops', (based on the assumption that there are 20 drops in a ml) so that's what I used for measuring my first few batches. But, my batches never added up to the correct amount. I soon realized drops from different dripper bottles were different sizes. So, for those starting DIY, Using 'drops' as a unit of measurement is not a good operating procedure.
Anyways, Rachel's experience with DIY flavors/mixing is obviously very different from mine, so to those reading this, YMMV. I can only speak from my own experience.
The thing is, DIY isn't an easy hobby. Your juice is going to suck at first. That's the nature of the beast. I've noticed a lot of people saying they gave up on DIY, and you have to wonder why that is. I think it's because beginners make a half dozen batches and expect some of it to be professional quality, then they are discouraged and give up when it's not. You've got to wonder if that has to do with a lack of supplies to experiment. Like I said before, if I'd only got 4ml of each flavor I have, I wouldn't have ordered any of them again and would likely have given up. But now, after a couple months of mixing and testing, I have found a place for all of my flavors. Even that Raspberry that I hated initially.
Plus, there's the price issue. If you do the math, you'll see the price break at 1 ounce is pretty staggering:
PA 4ml:
$1.40/4ml= 30 cents/ml
HappyVaper 3ml:
$2.00/3ml = 67 cents/ml
PA 1oz:
$5.00/30ml= 16 cents/ml
You're paying between double and quadruple the price for the same flavoring, and you're likely not getting enough of it to give it a fair shot in mixes and different concentrations to find a way to make it work for you. And really, an ounce of flavoring isn't that much. It's not like you have to buy a litre to get the price break. The difference of only around 3 dollars will get you from only having enough to do a couple batches to having enough to last you for close to a year.
On a related note, do the small bottles of flavoring really come in dripper bottles? I can't imagine that being a plus. All DIY liquid measurement really should be done with an eyedropper/syringe with graduation marks. That way you know exactly what your nicotine level is at, and you can create flavor recipes that you know will be consistent every time. I've noticed that just a few too many drops of flavor can make all the difference between a good juice and a crappy juice.
On the subject of dropper bottles, I think they should only be used to hold the finished product. One of the biggest issues I had as a beginner was the fact that I measured everything in 'drops'. A lot of DIY calculators say to use 'X number of drops', (based on the assumption that there are 20 drops in a ml) so that's what I used for measuring my first few batches. But, my batches never added up to the correct amount. I soon realized drops from different dripper bottles were different sizes. So, for those starting DIY, Using 'drops' as a unit of measurement is not a good operating procedure.
Anyways, Rachel's experience with DIY flavors/mixing is obviously very different from mine, so to those reading this, YMMV. I can only speak from my own experience.
I have to totally disagree with that statement. Although different flavours and droppers will provide a different drop, they are a unit of measure used to create a sample. Provided the same dropper is used over and over again, then the recipe is easily replicated time after time. Why? Because they are your drops. The problem arises when duplicating a recipe from someone else which may not have the same drop size as you, and of course the recipe will be off. This is why the majority of shared recipes come in %. I roll my own exclusively and some recipes contain drops, yet I an duplicate a recipe every time.
I appreciate your points, AllYourBase. In my view though, the price differences we're talking about are negligible, & aren't the issue.
The issue is: do you really want to buy large bottles of something that you may dislike or even hate from the first puff, on the off chance that you might like it? There's just no sense in doing that. You could end up spending far more money that way, & amassing a large collection of unwanted flavourings that you'll never use. I appreciate that you've amazingly found a way to salvage all your flavours, hon...but that is definitely unusual. Many that will be loved by one person, will be disliked by another. Some flavours just won't go well with others. And some flavours are just flat-out vile, in the view of virtually everyone with tastebuds.
Smaller bottles allow a person to affordably try many new flavours - more than they could afford to try for the same money, if they were buying large bottles - & discover some faves. Yes, the larger bottles are a better price - but we're talking pocket change here, not some grand sum.
$2 for 3 or 4mL is perfectly fine. And when you've tried some & know you'll like them...$5 for 30mL will be there for you. The point isn't that you can get 30mL for $5; the point is that $2 for 3mL is totally affordable & not an unreasonable sum.
I respect that some people will need more flavouring than others before they get some good mixes going. But 3mL goes a long way. In my experience, a 3mL bottle of flavouring - Cola 'Tri' for example - is enough to mix up anywhere from 24 to 30mL of finished e-juice. That's more than enough to allow you to try out that flavour & experiment with various mixes. For $2, that's a bargain!
---
As to drip size...well, we're all free to do what we feel is best, but in my opinion some people overcomplicate this sort of thing by convincing themselves that nanoscopic exactitude is called for...& that's part of what drives people away from successfully DIY-ing.
My PG with nic, VG with nic, and plain VG all come in the same kind of 30mL squeeze bottle (though the VG is thicker & a pain in the behind to squeeze, so when I get a new bottle, I usually push a clean blunt-tip syringe through the hole to widen it slightly - this makes it drip as easily as PG, so yay). And all my flavourings go into the same kind of 3mL squeeze bottles. This setup is perfectly simple. These bottles all have the same size drip-nozzle, so they all deliver an equal, consistent drop-size...& counting those drops is a breeze.
We love it. It's user-friendly & it works. Once in a blue moon, one drop of VG etc may be a tiny smidgen larger than another drop - but we're talking about a miniscule, unimportant difference.
On a practical level, the drops are consistent in size.
"A difference that makes no difference is no difference." Nanoscopic exactitude is not required, lol. As long as all your drops are reasonably consistent in size...and you can tell just by watching...you're golden.
---
Conversely, syringes are very sensitive & require a much steadier hand than a squeeze bottle with drip-nozzle; the slightest pressure from your finger & you could suddenly eject several drops in rapid succession. A squeeze bottle with drip-nozzle is much better for applying control; unless you're squeezing the crap out of it, or daydreaming, you're not going to eject more than intended...or lose track of the drop number.
Applied pressure with a syringe can also affect drip size...it's difficult to get consistency from them. They also usually deliver much smaller drops than squeeze bottles with drip-nozzles do. I would not recommend using syringes at all in this fashion. Manual eyedroppers can be very problematic in much the same way, except even more so.
Syringes only make sense if you're making a very large batch of juice, measuring out in mL's instead of drops. I've never done that, & I've never wanted to. Making juice in small 2mL batches (i.e. 40 drops - & repeating as desired in the same mixing bottle, when you want a larger batch) is my recommendation, because it's what I do. It ensures ease of drop-counting, and (in my opinion) it ensures better layering & a better final mix.
---
Lastly (and this illustrates the truth in 'different strokes for different folks') I don't keep my finished juices in drip-nozzle bottles. I keep my finished juices in glass dram bottles, and use a blunt-tip syringe to fill my cartomizers as needed. When filling my cartomizer, I don't count the drops either. I fill it until it's full.
---
Obviously, there are different approaches out there...different personal preferences. If something works for you, then it works! I can only speak to my own approach & experience; I've been DIY-ing since day #1 as a vaper, and never had any regrets. I've never once found it complicated - in fact it's always been exceedingly easy - and apart from my brushes with flavours I didn't like, I've always found my DIY juices to be superb. Much better than the premixed ones I tried. Over time, as my experience has grown...they've grown even better.
DIY opens the door to better juices - juices that taste better, vape better. It opens the door to creative expression & discovery. And you save money in the process. Yet too many people out there fear DIY because they have the false idea that it's complicated, when it isn't & doesn't need to be. That's why I share my experience & approach with others, because it simplifies things. There's no great mystery to making great juices. It's easy to understand, easy to do...
...and that's liberating.
In conclusion, we've been up all night & it's time for bed, haha!
Goodnight everyone.
The issue is: do you really want to buy large bottles of something that you may dislike or even hate from the first puff, on the off chance that you might like it? There's just no sense in doing that. You could end up spending far more money that way, & amassing a large collection of unwanted flavourings that you'll never use. I appreciate that you've amazingly found a way to salvage all your flavours, hon...but that is definitely unusual. Many that will be loved by one person, will be disliked by another. Some flavours just won't go well with others. And some flavours are just flat-out vile, in the view of virtually everyone with tastebuds.
Smaller bottles allow a person to affordably try many new flavours - more than they could afford to try for the same money, if they were buying large bottles - & discover some faves. Yes, the larger bottles are a better price - but we're talking pocket change here, not some grand sum.
$2 for 3 or 4mL is perfectly fine. And when you've tried some & know you'll like them...$5 for 30mL will be there for you. The point isn't that you can get 30mL for $5; the point is that $2 for 3mL is totally affordable & not an unreasonable sum.
I respect that some people will need more flavouring than others before they get some good mixes going. But 3mL goes a long way. In my experience, a 3mL bottle of flavouring - Cola 'Tri' for example - is enough to mix up anywhere from 24 to 30mL of finished e-juice. That's more than enough to allow you to try out that flavour & experiment with various mixes. For $2, that's a bargain!
---
As to drip size...well, we're all free to do what we feel is best, but in my opinion some people overcomplicate this sort of thing by convincing themselves that nanoscopic exactitude is called for...& that's part of what drives people away from successfully DIY-ing.
My PG with nic, VG with nic, and plain VG all come in the same kind of 30mL squeeze bottle (though the VG is thicker & a pain in the behind to squeeze, so when I get a new bottle, I usually push a clean blunt-tip syringe through the hole to widen it slightly - this makes it drip as easily as PG, so yay). And all my flavourings go into the same kind of 3mL squeeze bottles. This setup is perfectly simple. These bottles all have the same size drip-nozzle, so they all deliver an equal, consistent drop-size...& counting those drops is a breeze.
We love it. It's user-friendly & it works. Once in a blue moon, one drop of VG etc may be a tiny smidgen larger than another drop - but we're talking about a miniscule, unimportant difference.
On a practical level, the drops are consistent in size.
"A difference that makes no difference is no difference." Nanoscopic exactitude is not required, lol. As long as all your drops are reasonably consistent in size...and you can tell just by watching...you're golden.
---
Conversely, syringes are very sensitive & require a much steadier hand than a squeeze bottle with drip-nozzle; the slightest pressure from your finger & you could suddenly eject several drops in rapid succession. A squeeze bottle with drip-nozzle is much better for applying control; unless you're squeezing the crap out of it, or daydreaming, you're not going to eject more than intended...or lose track of the drop number.
Applied pressure with a syringe can also affect drip size...it's difficult to get consistency from them. They also usually deliver much smaller drops than squeeze bottles with drip-nozzles do. I would not recommend using syringes at all in this fashion. Manual eyedroppers can be very problematic in much the same way, except even more so.
Syringes only make sense if you're making a very large batch of juice, measuring out in mL's instead of drops. I've never done that, & I've never wanted to. Making juice in small 2mL batches (i.e. 40 drops - & repeating as desired in the same mixing bottle, when you want a larger batch) is my recommendation, because it's what I do. It ensures ease of drop-counting, and (in my opinion) it ensures better layering & a better final mix.
---
Lastly (and this illustrates the truth in 'different strokes for different folks') I don't keep my finished juices in drip-nozzle bottles. I keep my finished juices in glass dram bottles, and use a blunt-tip syringe to fill my cartomizers as needed. When filling my cartomizer, I don't count the drops either. I fill it until it's full.
---
Obviously, there are different approaches out there...different personal preferences. If something works for you, then it works! I can only speak to my own approach & experience; I've been DIY-ing since day #1 as a vaper, and never had any regrets. I've never once found it complicated - in fact it's always been exceedingly easy - and apart from my brushes with flavours I didn't like, I've always found my DIY juices to be superb. Much better than the premixed ones I tried. Over time, as my experience has grown...they've grown even better.
DIY opens the door to better juices - juices that taste better, vape better. It opens the door to creative expression & discovery. And you save money in the process. Yet too many people out there fear DIY because they have the false idea that it's complicated, when it isn't & doesn't need to be. That's why I share my experience & approach with others, because it simplifies things. There's no great mystery to making great juices. It's easy to understand, easy to do...
...and that's liberating.
In conclusion, we've been up all night & it's time for bed, haha!
Goodnight everyone.
Well like I said previously, YMMV with almost all things involving DIY, but having inexact recipes due to using dripper bottles for flavor and base measurements is what made my first juices taste like crap. Everything improved a lot when I started actually measuring the amounts everything I used. The problems you mentioned with Eyedroppers and Syringes are remedied by using one with graduation marks. When using a graduated measuring system, there is no need to worry about changes in drip size, because you know exactly how many mL of each liquid you are using.
You mentioned that you used a syringe to widen the VG dripper bottle top, but therein lies the drop size issue I mentioned. The moment you widened your VG opening, you changed the amount of liquid that will be in a drop. In fact, VG in a dripper bottle was exactly what screwed up my measurements when I started DIY. 20 drops from the bottle didn't come anywhere near 1ml. It was closer to 0.7ml. That totally screwed up my base, and my flavorings came out at incorrect percentages. Thus my juice sucked, and I was getting nowhere with building recipes.
Plus, like you mentioned, dripping VG from a bottle is a pain. 2 minutes dripping from a bottle vs. 5 seconds with an eyedropper is really a no contest situation in my eyes. Especially for people who like a lot of VG in their liquids (like I do.)
Also, I don't think it was any kind of unusual feat to find a way to enjoy all of my flavors. These are good flavorings, and as long as the flavor you buy is a flavor you would normally enjoy in nature, it's just a matter of tinkering with the formula before you will find something you like. The way these flavors are taste is based on three things: Concentration, Mix, and Steeping.
For example, I have a bottle of the Key Lime and a bottle of the Graham Cracker that I make a great Key Lime Pie juice with. I don't like the key lime by itself, but it's great when I mix it with the graham cracker. But, it took me almost a dozen 5ml batches to get the formula to a place where I really liked it. I found that the Key Lime must be right at 12% and the Graham Cracker must be at 7% to get a true flavor. Even 15% key lime screws up the recipe. Plus, it only really comes through with a 1.5 week steep. The steep helps the graham cracker lose some of the excess buttery taste, and makes the 'pie'ness come out in the flavor. If I had kept measuring in drops, I would have never gotten my base right so I could work out flavor percentages. Plus, I ended up going through almost 10ml of Key Lime finding the best possible recipe. If I hadn't had enough flavoring to do testing of concentrations, mixes, and steeping times, I would have never picked up either of those flavors again. But now, it's one of my all-day vapes. I think a lot of people who say they don't like a particular flavour just aren't giving the flavour a fair chance.
On the subject of price... well, paying quadruple the money per mL for the exact same thing may seem negligible to you, I guess that's a matter of personal situation. As a university student I am on a tight budget, and can't afford to just throw away my money like that. Especially when you have to add a 10+ dollar shipping charge to each order.
You mentioned that you used a syringe to widen the VG dripper bottle top, but therein lies the drop size issue I mentioned. The moment you widened your VG opening, you changed the amount of liquid that will be in a drop. In fact, VG in a dripper bottle was exactly what screwed up my measurements when I started DIY. 20 drops from the bottle didn't come anywhere near 1ml. It was closer to 0.7ml. That totally screwed up my base, and my flavorings came out at incorrect percentages. Thus my juice sucked, and I was getting nowhere with building recipes.
Plus, like you mentioned, dripping VG from a bottle is a pain. 2 minutes dripping from a bottle vs. 5 seconds with an eyedropper is really a no contest situation in my eyes. Especially for people who like a lot of VG in their liquids (like I do.)
Also, I don't think it was any kind of unusual feat to find a way to enjoy all of my flavors. These are good flavorings, and as long as the flavor you buy is a flavor you would normally enjoy in nature, it's just a matter of tinkering with the formula before you will find something you like. The way these flavors are taste is based on three things: Concentration, Mix, and Steeping.
For example, I have a bottle of the Key Lime and a bottle of the Graham Cracker that I make a great Key Lime Pie juice with. I don't like the key lime by itself, but it's great when I mix it with the graham cracker. But, it took me almost a dozen 5ml batches to get the formula to a place where I really liked it. I found that the Key Lime must be right at 12% and the Graham Cracker must be at 7% to get a true flavor. Even 15% key lime screws up the recipe. Plus, it only really comes through with a 1.5 week steep. The steep helps the graham cracker lose some of the excess buttery taste, and makes the 'pie'ness come out in the flavor. If I had kept measuring in drops, I would have never gotten my base right so I could work out flavor percentages. Plus, I ended up going through almost 10ml of Key Lime finding the best possible recipe. If I hadn't had enough flavoring to do testing of concentrations, mixes, and steeping times, I would have never picked up either of those flavors again. But now, it's one of my all-day vapes. I think a lot of people who say they don't like a particular flavour just aren't giving the flavour a fair chance.
On the subject of price... well, paying quadruple the money per mL for the exact same thing may seem negligible to you, I guess that's a matter of personal situation. As a university student I am on a tight budget, and can't afford to just throw away my money like that. Especially when you have to add a 10+ dollar shipping charge to each order.
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