DID WE WIN???????

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Mowgli

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When the angry reality show host starts WWIII and blames it on the Muslim Nobel Laureate from Kenya that killed Bin Laden I'm not sure if solar panels will work in Nuclear Winter or if the EMP will kill them along with our regulated devices and battery chargers.
vape em if ya got em.

 
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ENAUD

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Unmodified tobacco has essentially the same risk as modified tobacco. It has always been a myth that BT makes cigarettes more addictive and more harmful (BT manipulates tobacco used in cigarettes to make it consistent so that every one you smoke is the same as the last, despite lots of year to year variances in tobacco. Weather effects tobacco as it does every other plant). What causes the harm in cigarettes is inhaling the products of combustion. It doesn't matter if it is organic unmodified tobacco or heavily manipulated tobacco, the harm is pretty much the same.

There really is only one thing the FDA needs to do to make a sea change to reduced harm products, and that is to stop lying. Simply tell the truth that there are ways of using tobacco/nicotine (smokeless tobacco and vaping) that are several orders of magnitude less harmful then inhaling smoke and people will make the rational choice to the less harmful product.

Sweden now has the lowest daily smoking rate in the world at 5%. It did not take any massive government intervention. People simply switched to snus because they knew it was less harmful then cigarettes. The same thing is happening in the UK with vaping. The government, for the most part, is truthfully informing people on the relative risk, and vaping has already replaced smoking in a good percentage of people.

The real problem in the US is the decades of lying by government and public health groups on the relative risk of different tobacco products. About 90% of the public believes smokeless tobacco has essentially the same risk as cigarettes, while the truth is that ST is about 99% less harmful then inhaling smoke. The same thing has been happening with vaping. When I started in 2009 (if my memory serves me right) somewhere in the 20% range believed vaping was as harmful as cigarettes, now it is in the 60% range.

People are not going to make the switch if they are grossly misinformed as to the relative risk. The FDA and CDC needs to start telling the truth as to the relative risk of different tobacco products. That is pretty much all that needs to be done.
Amen! :thumb:
 

Eskie

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When the angry reality show host starts WWIII and blames it on the Muslim Nobel Laureate from Kenya that killed Bin Laden I'm not sure if solar panels will work in Nuclear Winter or if the EMP will kill them along with our regulated devices and battery chargers.
Vape em if ya got em.



EMPs are why you have mechs in your stash. And nuclear winter is going to be cold, so natural protection for your nic right outside You can also get one of those hand crank flashlights that also have a charge outlet so you can spin the crank while chain vaping. See? Doomsday planning isn't all that hard. :lol:
 

CMD-Ky

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A good percentage of the vaping restrictions and taxes that are showing up are happening in Republican controlled states. It is a false assumption that this is a partisan issue. Besides state level issues, the Cole/Bishop amendment is bi-partisan with support from both sides.

It is a big mistake to try and make this a partisan issue (especially since it is not). It is a sure way to lose. In the long run we need support from both sides to make it stick.

Career politicians are more addicted to spending the money of others (or money they just don't have) than I am to the use of nicotine. You are correct, vaping is not a partisan issue but it is a political issue.
 

sofarsogood

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Since I switched to vaping I've been contemptuous of the public health community and especially the FDA for tryinig to ban vaping while cigarettes remain for sale the same always. Gottlieb has turned that upside down and stunned everybody to silence. I'm annoyed because I didn't think of it first.

My idea, a few years back was ban rolled cigarettes, everybody rolls their own, and encourage vaping. Gottlieb's proposal might end up amounting to that. perhaps only rolled cigarettes will see a reduction in nicotine while pipe tobacco is left alone, Then if you must hve full strength tobacco you hand roll pipe tobacco and get used to the taste. I bet most cigarette smokers would rather supplliment their nic wiith vaping.

Gottlieb needed something his employees would support. He needs to diifuse the nasty public conflict. He needs to do reasonable things to keep minors from buying vape stuff (which is not the same as banning posession, which I think parents should decide off school property). I'll support Gottlieb's approach. That doesn't mean I'll agree with every proposal. I even believe the majority of smokers will support this mostly by not objecting. May be public perceptions will change for the better. May be vape shop traffic will rebound. May be state and local governments will feel pre-empted and back off. In the mean time my stockpile is no less important today that it was before.
 

Steamix

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5 years... in which Vaping needs to get it's act together.
Growing numbers of vapers will pack growing political clout.
Growing numbers of vapers will also be ogled by the tax men.
$13bn annually - usually spent ( i.e. budgeted ) before it's been collected.
Can't but agree with all the other posts predicting the same :
Here cometh the tax collector....
 

Rickb119

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State and federal government will consider it a win once they regulate it to devices that they can guarantee they can tax.

This is about lost tax revenue for states and federal
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
Ronald Reagan
 

CMD-Ky

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The public "health" community:

Myths and Facts About E-cigarettes

E-cigarettes and Lung Health

Since I switched to vaping I've been contemptuous of the public health community and especially the FDA for tryinig to ban vaping while cigarettes remain for sale the same always. Gottlieb has turned that upside down and stunned everybody to silence. I'm annoyed because I didn't think of it first.

My idea, a few years back was ban rolled cigarettes, everybody rolls their own, and encourage vaping. Gottlieb's proposal might end up amounting to that. perhaps only rolled cigarettes will see a reduction in nicotine while pipe tobacco is left alone, Then if you must hve full strength tobacco you hand roll pipe tobacco and get used to the taste. I bet most cigarette smokers would rather supplliment their nic wiith vaping.

Gottlieb needed something his employees would support. He needs to diifuse the nasty public conflict. He needs to do reasonable things to keep minors from buying vape stuff (which is not the same as banning posession, which I think parents should decide off school property). I'll support Gottlieb's approach. That doesn't mean I'll agree with every proposal. I even believe the majority of smokers will support this mostly by not objecting. May be public perceptions will change for the better. May be vape shop traffic will rebound. May be state and local governments will feel pre-empted and back off. In the mean time my stockpile is no less important today that it was before.
 
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Mowgli

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EMPs are why you have mechs in your stash. And nuclear winter is going to be cold, so natural protection for your nic right outside You can also get one of those hand crank flashlights that also have a charge outlet so you can spin the crank while chain vaping. See? Doomsday planning isn't all that hard. :lol:
I have one of those flashlights in my car.
I was talking with a buddy just yesterday about using it to crank up a charge to vape :toast:
 
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Eskie

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I have one of those flashlights in my car.
I was talking with a buddy just yesterday about using it to crank up a charge to vape :toast:

Yeah, I have one too. When hurricane Sandy hit and really messed me up when I was living on LI, with over 2 weeks to get power restored. I drained all my UPS supplies and power bricks, and didn't want to waste gas just to charge stuff other than my phone once cell service came back online. That crank flashlight was real handy.
 

JMarca

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Trump hasn't been able to pass a major piece of legislation since he entered office, he's too busy calling out fake media on Twitter anyway.

This delay (notice how I didn't say win) comes from efforts in congress from multiple parties. I'm thankful it's at least delayed but I wouldn't go buy a celebration cake just yet. Also be very wary of this administration, he would turn on ANYONE if it means some benefit to him or anyone around him. He'll stab us in the back in a heartbeat!
 

Eskie

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Trump hasn't been able to pass a major piece of legislation since he entered office, he's too busy calling out fake media on Twitter anyway.

This delay (notice how I didn't say win) comes from efforts in congress from multiple parties. I'm thankful it's at least delayed but I wouldn't go buy a celebration cake just yet. Also be very wary of this administration, he would turn on ANYONE if it means some benefit to him or anyone around him. He'll stab us in the back in a heartbeat!

Eh, the difference here is it's not legislation that needed to be enacted, only controls on regulation at the executive level. Hard to imagine this is anywhere on the While House radar, and not something that will help improve any PR spin on the current lack of stalled legislation that's got him tweeting like mad.
 
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BackDoc

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Trump hasn't been able to pass a major piece of legislation since he entered office, he's too busy calling out fake media on Twitter anyway.

This delay (notice how I didn't say win) comes from efforts in congress from multiple parties. I'm thankful it's at least delayed but I wouldn't go buy a celebration cake just yet. Also be very wary of this administration, he would turn on ANYONE if it means some benefit to him or anyone around him. He'll stab us in the back in a heartbeat!
Yeah, good thing the Democrats do not operate that way:)
 

sofarsogood

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Gottlieb said vaping and reducing nicotine in cigis are a package deal. They need each other. Vaping alone would reduce smoking over time but would take longer and governments are taking action to prevent that from happening. Now when they do that they are undermining a credible FDA plan intended to drastically reduce or eliminate smoking in not so many years and we're all in favor of that, right...RIGHT?!

A lot of places around the world have been waiting to see what the mighty FDA will do and they expected to follow its lead. Well, they've got their marching orders.
 

Rossum

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Gottlieb said vaping and reducing nicotine in cigis are a package deal. They need each other. Vaping alone would reduce smoking over time but would take longer and governments are taking action to prevent that from happening. Now when they do that they are undermining a credible FDA plan intended to drastically reduce or eliminate smoking in not so many years and we're all in favor of that, right...RIGHT?!
No, I'm not. I'm in favor of allowing people to be free to live as they choose.

I think Stubby nailed it right here:
There really is only one thing the FDA needs to do to make a sea change to reduced harm products, and that is to stop lying. Simply tell the truth that there are ways of using tobacco/nicotine (smokeless tobacco and vaping) that are several orders of magnitude less harmful then inhaling smoke and people will make the rational choice to the less harmful product.
 
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