I use 18650's most of the time. Just bought a height drain. Don't know what that means really. I've been using smoketech and trust fire regularly. Really don't know the difference. Thoughts?
Dif. Between high drain/not batts
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High drain batteries allow more current to flow more quickly. That allows your atomizer to get hot faster which produces more vapor. Depending on the device you're using you may or may not notice a difference. If there's lots circuitry inside other components may limit the current flow anyway. If you're using something with little or no electronics you'll probably see an improvement.
Its very easy to break those IMRs high drain unprotected batteries by running them in devices that dont have an overdischarge protection circuit/reader (protected batteries have that chip in them already)...or if you insist on doing it,use a couple during the day,dont take any chances.
You probably don't need a high-drain battery for, say, 2.0 ohm or higher at 3.7 volts since that's only 1.85 amps. Even a 1.5 ohms is only 2.5 amps. Like was mentioned above, high drain are used for situations where they need more amps. In booster circuits or when running low ohm stuff on higher voltage devices. I'd use protected batteries unless I needed high-drain for some reason.
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ive been using an aw imr 18650 in my megalodon (mechanical 3.7) with a 1.5 ohm atomizer . should i be using a protected battery like a aw ic 3100 mah instead . i never over discharge my batteries by the end of the day the vape becomes weaker than I like so by that time they are only reading about 3.6 . so is the protected battery is better for my setup , would i lose performance , would i get more usable vape time out of larger capacity protected battery ?
In fact you can use anything you have on hands,just be very carefull or that $15 battery will meet the disposable bin (always dispose of batteries in a safe manner btw!)
OK. Let's try it this way.
The amp draw is determined by the load. All that means is that the ohms (Ω) of the atty/carto determine the amp draw from a theoretically unlimited battery. Trouble is, batteries are not unlimited. So each battery has an amp limit. This is part of it's C rating.
Anyway, bottom line is that most of the 18650's out there can put out something like 4 amps FOR PROTECTED cells. That's plenty. That changes with smaller batteries... their resistance goes up. So a 14500 may be limited to, say, 2.0 amps. IT DEPENDS ON THE BATTERY and you should look up the specs FOR A SPECIFIC CELL make/model.
Some swear by IMR batteries. But they are usually using the dinky ones and need higher output. With a bigger battery like the 18650, I'd stay with protected cells.
The plus side is that the IMR batteries achieve their higher amp ratings with different chemistry but they don't hold as much charge (their mAh ratings are lower). They don't usually flame if shorted though. Protected Li-Ion's are a good compromise since they have a protection circuit built in, and higher mAh.
Bottom line is that it will only draw the # of amps as determined by the load. So, for a mechanical mod, the load is the ohms of the atty/carto. If it draws 2 amps, it draws 2 amps. As long as the battery can supply 2 amps, you're fine. No need for an IMR. In fact, IMR won't help you and will reduce your mAh. They are considered safer in a dead-short situation though (although the protection circuit detects that). That's why we say USE PROTECTED BATTERIES.
If you like playing around with multimeters or such, and want to use IMRs and check the voltage all the time according to the recommendations of battery-voltage-junkies and not drain the battery past 3.? volts, and always worry about it... use IMR. If you have a mod that needs high drain... like a booster mod... use IMR. If you think you'll get a short and don't trust protection circuits, use IMR. Otherwise, for 18650 cells, use protected.
How do you know how many amps you need? Use an ohm's law calculator like this one http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php
Basically Amps = Watts / Volts. And Watts = Voltage * Voltage / Ohms.
So I = (V*V/R)/V = V/R. So amps = voltage / ohms
3.7 volts and 1.5 ohms is 2.46667 amps since 3.7 / 1.5 = 2.46667
The amp draw is determined by the load. All that means is that the ohms (Ω) of the atty/carto determine the amp draw from a theoretically unlimited battery. Trouble is, batteries are not unlimited. So each battery has an amp limit. This is part of it's C rating.
Anyway, bottom line is that most of the 18650's out there can put out something like 4 amps FOR PROTECTED cells. That's plenty. That changes with smaller batteries... their resistance goes up. So a 14500 may be limited to, say, 2.0 amps. IT DEPENDS ON THE BATTERY and you should look up the specs FOR A SPECIFIC CELL make/model.
Some swear by IMR batteries. But they are usually using the dinky ones and need higher output. With a bigger battery like the 18650, I'd stay with protected cells.
The plus side is that the IMR batteries achieve their higher amp ratings with different chemistry but they don't hold as much charge (their mAh ratings are lower). They don't usually flame if shorted though. Protected Li-Ion's are a good compromise since they have a protection circuit built in, and higher mAh.
Bottom line is that it will only draw the # of amps as determined by the load. So, for a mechanical mod, the load is the ohms of the atty/carto. If it draws 2 amps, it draws 2 amps. As long as the battery can supply 2 amps, you're fine. No need for an IMR. In fact, IMR won't help you and will reduce your mAh. They are considered safer in a dead-short situation though (although the protection circuit detects that). That's why we say USE PROTECTED BATTERIES.
If you like playing around with multimeters or such, and want to use IMRs and check the voltage all the time according to the recommendations of battery-voltage-junkies and not drain the battery past 3.? volts, and always worry about it... use IMR. If you have a mod that needs high drain... like a booster mod... use IMR. If you think you'll get a short and don't trust protection circuits, use IMR. Otherwise, for 18650 cells, use protected.
How do you know how many amps you need? Use an ohm's law calculator like this one http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php
Basically Amps = Watts / Volts. And Watts = Voltage * Voltage / Ohms.
So I = (V*V/R)/V = V/R. So amps = voltage / ohms
3.7 volts and 1.5 ohms is 2.46667 amps since 3.7 / 1.5 = 2.46667
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Pretty much the protected ICR batteries are rated 2C, 2 x the mAh of the battery (some can handle higher current, at least for shorter durations, but using 2C is a good starting point). This is called the "maximum continuous discharge current" -- the battery vendor is asserting that their design is safe in applications up to that current even for something like a flashlight (where the current is drawn continuously).
Smallish battery, 650 mAh. 2C = 2 x 0.65 = 1.3A is about the most you want to drive it at. If a particular battery is rated for a bit higher C, and/or the PV has some protections of its own, I don't mind going somewhat higher on draw, but it should be a conscious decision (educated consumer).
Big 18650, 2600 mAh. 2C = 2 x 2.6 = 5.2A, a LOT of current, fine for any single-battery non-boost (non-VV) PV.
IMR comes into play if you need more than that 2C rating. IMR can typically handle 8C or greater (many are 10C, even more).
Smallish battery, 500 mAh. 8C = 8 x 0.5 = 4A is safe, and a 10C battery could run 5A continuously.
IMR is particularly popular for the single-battery boost variable voltage devices because they draw a lot of current, though with the newer > 2500 mAh protected ICR I don't know how important that really is, since the batteries are rated for a pretty high output (take an AW 2600 mAh, drained down to 3.4V -- 3.4V x 5.2A = 17.7W, enough to drive a 15W output with only 85% efficiency). Nonetheless, the halfway decent boost VV all have multiple electronic protections, so the IMR is a "safe" bet, why manufacturers recommend them. (though even IMR can go into a thermal runaway).
For my unregulated, no protection, single battery, bottom feeder, the AW 2600 mAh protected ICR was a no brainer. Plenty of power for a 1.5 ohm atty, maintains voltage well at 2.5A load (the 1.5 ohm working area is around 2.5A), stays well within the 2C standard (most of the time < 1C, except right when I first start using it), the protection circuitry covers me for things like atomizer shorts. I also have a 3100 mAh protected ICR, but the 2600 mAh tests better for this application (at 2.5A, you get more runtime at or above 3.5V with the 2600 mAh compared to the 3100, according to comments over in the SuperT vendor area -- the supplier checks out batteries pretty frequently, a good source of information).
Smallish battery, 650 mAh. 2C = 2 x 0.65 = 1.3A is about the most you want to drive it at. If a particular battery is rated for a bit higher C, and/or the PV has some protections of its own, I don't mind going somewhat higher on draw, but it should be a conscious decision (educated consumer).
Big 18650, 2600 mAh. 2C = 2 x 2.6 = 5.2A, a LOT of current, fine for any single-battery non-boost (non-VV) PV.
IMR comes into play if you need more than that 2C rating. IMR can typically handle 8C or greater (many are 10C, even more).
Smallish battery, 500 mAh. 8C = 8 x 0.5 = 4A is safe, and a 10C battery could run 5A continuously.
IMR is particularly popular for the single-battery boost variable voltage devices because they draw a lot of current, though with the newer > 2500 mAh protected ICR I don't know how important that really is, since the batteries are rated for a pretty high output (take an AW 2600 mAh, drained down to 3.4V -- 3.4V x 5.2A = 17.7W, enough to drive a 15W output with only 85% efficiency). Nonetheless, the halfway decent boost VV all have multiple electronic protections, so the IMR is a "safe" bet, why manufacturers recommend them. (though even IMR can go into a thermal runaway).
For my unregulated, no protection, single battery, bottom feeder, the AW 2600 mAh protected ICR was a no brainer. Plenty of power for a 1.5 ohm atty, maintains voltage well at 2.5A load (the 1.5 ohm working area is around 2.5A), stays well within the 2C standard (most of the time < 1C, except right when I first start using it), the protection circuitry covers me for things like atomizer shorts. I also have a 3100 mAh protected ICR, but the 2600 mAh tests better for this application (at 2.5A, you get more runtime at or above 3.5V with the 2600 mAh compared to the 3100, according to comments over in the SuperT vendor area -- the supplier checks out batteries pretty frequently, a good source of information).
You shouldn't use "anything you have on hand". Use the proper stuff, or research it. They can blow up.
what about an 18350 , would that be considered a small battery where it would be neccessary to use an imr with a 1.5 ohm atty. i use single 18350 mods as well , looks like ill be ordering some protected 18650's
Basically,
1) Look up the datasheet for the battery and see the amp ratings. General rules are general rules, but specifics count. Multiples of "C" rating only go so far, and there are exceptions, with IMR in particular but with protected also.
2) Use the formula I gave above for calculating amps for all-mechanical mods. That includes voltage...which you didn't specify. I'd assume 3.7 but since I don't know the device I can't be 100% sure. Note that 3.7 is an average if it's an all-mechanical mod since it follows battery voltage.
3) Check with the mod/APV vendor and review their battery recommendations and unit ratings. Some are limited as to amps at the switch, for example.
IDK why all you guys are using 1.5 ohms at 3.7 volts anyway. 2.0 ohms is good. 1.7 maybe. 1.5 is too hot, IMO. Burns juice. But to each their own.
1) Look up the datasheet for the battery and see the amp ratings. General rules are general rules, but specifics count. Multiples of "C" rating only go so far, and there are exceptions, with IMR in particular but with protected also.
2) Use the formula I gave above for calculating amps for all-mechanical mods. That includes voltage...which you didn't specify. I'd assume 3.7 but since I don't know the device I can't be 100% sure. Note that 3.7 is an average if it's an all-mechanical mod since it follows battery voltage.
3) Check with the mod/APV vendor and review their battery recommendations and unit ratings. Some are limited as to amps at the switch, for example.
IDK why all you guys are using 1.5 ohms at 3.7 volts anyway. 2.0 ohms is good. 1.7 maybe. 1.5 is too hot, IMO. Burns juice. But to each their own.
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the hh357 ive been using are 1.5 but dont see to be as warm as other 1.5's that ive used , im not getting any type of burnt taste from the hh357 just the best hit and flavor of anything else ive ever tried
I use 1.5 because I know that I like 8 - 10w with the eliquid I use. First couple of puffs on a fresh battery are higher power, but my eliquid can handle it and the majority of the time is spent between 8.5 and 9.5w, right where I want it.
Since I've been vaping that power zone for over a year, enjoy it, I don't plan on stopping
I vape a diy vanilla tobacco, match the power to the liquid, what tastes good. If I was vaping Vananaberry or CarCapp I would almost certainly be using lower power.
Since I've been vaping that power zone for over a year, enjoy it, I don't plan on stopping
I vape a diy vanilla tobacco, match the power to the liquid, what tastes good. If I was vaping Vananaberry or CarCapp I would almost certainly be using lower power.
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IMR batteries don't have the energy density capacity that Li-ion batteries possess, so you have to charge more often. The benefit, as MarkFM said, is that they can handle the high instaneous current demands of boost circuits without generating nearly as much heat. IMR's can also withstand much more internal heat without entering thermal meltdown.
I think the specs for the AW 18650 IMR say it's capable of handling loads up to 10A and is able to withstand internal temps up to something like 480 degrees farenheit without venting. This makes them safer than Li-ion batteries in high drain applications.
I'm willing to sacrifice a little run time for safety. I rotate 4 AW 18650 IMR's in my Provari. Seldom do I feel heat on the battery case during a 500ma charge with my TR-001 charger. I can vape heavy for a prolonged time and take the battery out and find that it's about room temperature. I like the way these batteries handle the abuse without needing an additional protection circuit added to the length.
I think the specs for the AW 18650 IMR say it's capable of handling loads up to 10A and is able to withstand internal temps up to something like 480 degrees farenheit without venting. This makes them safer than Li-ion batteries in high drain applications.
I'm willing to sacrifice a little run time for safety. I rotate 4 AW 18650 IMR's in my Provari. Seldom do I feel heat on the battery case during a 500ma charge with my TR-001 charger. I can vape heavy for a prolonged time and take the battery out and find that it's about room temperature. I like the way these batteries handle the abuse without needing an additional protection circuit added to the length.
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Sigh. The 1.5 ohm was only a side-comment. Sheesh! Fine with me.
I don't run around with a multimeter clipped to my belt when using all mechanical mods, so I have no idea what voltage they are at any given time. Thus, I use protected cells. Can't drain em too far. Others use IMR and "take the mAh hit".
You shouldn't abuse the battery anyway. I use a TR-001 with protected 14500's and they don't get hot. It's a function of the charger. IDK if it reads battery resistance or not. But, I wouldn't use that charger as a reason to only use IMR.
Like I said: Boosters need IMR due to increased amp draw. Check APV/mod requirements. To answer the OP's question though... IDK when you'd need IMR 18650's unless the mod required IMR (like a booster mod). Go ahead and use em if you want.
It's just that for me, people keep posting warnings about "don't drain them below 3.5 volts" and such, and then don't explain that if your mod/APV doesn't tell you battery voltage and doesn't monitor it, you need a meter..and have to check it all the time while vaping. All the time, all day long, every day. PITA.
Fine with me.I don't run around with a multimeter clipped to my belt when using all mechanical mods, so I have no idea what voltage they are at any given time. Thus, I use protected cells. Can't drain em too far. Others use IMR and "take the mAh hit".
You shouldn't abuse the battery anyway. I use a TR-001 with protected 14500's and they don't get hot. It's a function of the charger. IDK if it reads battery resistance or not. But, I wouldn't use that charger as a reason to only use IMR.
Like I said: Boosters need IMR due to increased amp draw. Check APV/mod requirements. To answer the OP's question though... IDK when you'd need IMR 18650's unless the mod required IMR (like a booster mod). Go ahead and use em if you want.
It's just that for me, people keep posting warnings about "don't drain them below 3.5 volts" and such, and then don't explain that if your mod/APV doesn't tell you battery voltage and doesn't monitor it, you need a meter..and have to check it all the time while vaping. All the time, all day long, every day. PITA.
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The "not below X.X volts" crowd ought to try reading a battery data sheet sometime. The batteries I use have minimum safe working voltages of 2.5 and 2.75V, per the vendor specifications. I tend not to vape a single battery unregulated mod below about 3.6V, but that's just for consistency in the vaping, nothing to do with unsafe battery use.
Omg!! Almost sorry I bumped LOL!! Vendor knew that I was using e power and i was purchasing 1.75 ohm cartos. I asked him if I should try the high drain batt because I noticed that it was the same price as the 18650 trustfire. Is this going to be dangerous? Should I not use it??
Use it. Try not to over-drain it. Don't need it, but if you didn't pay extra, meh.
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