Difference between watts and joules?

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bluecat

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But if it is a patent issue, there are a number of other mods that use watts, without using an Evolve chip. Like the Evic, Snow Wolf, I think?, and etc

ETA: @fromplsnerf, do you have a basis for that statement or is it mere speculation?


You really can't patent a device that puts out watts. Some thing one just cannot patent. You may be able to patent the internals but different insides can get there.

As far as limiting temperature maybe they could patent it. Not sure when the Chinese started to care about it though.
 

VNeil

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You really can't patent a device that puts out watts. Some thing one just cannot patent. You may be able to patent the internals but different insides can get there.

As far as limiting temperature maybe they could patent it. Not sure when the Chinese started to care about it though.
I'm not a patent attorney. I assumed, for the sake of discussion, that *maybe* Evolve patented the process, such that including a user defined "Watts" and Temp setting on a display somehow violated a patent. Which I think the previous poster was trying to suggest. If that were true, it would not explain why all these other companies are making TC controlled mods with a watts/temp settings.

IOW, I don't buy the patent argument put forth, just for this reason alone. I am just convinced calling it a Joules setting was an admittedly brilliant piece of marketing (with no engineering basis whatsoever). But it was just marketing. And I do not believe in Fairy Tales, Pigs Flying, or lucky accidents when some engineer made a mistake and then changed jobs, or whatever the speculation was on the prior page(s). It is marketing. It is so good it is difficult to explain even though it is so clear to me what is going on, to the extent we need to know. They brilliantly interwove a kernel of totally unrelated truth (in the form of the Jules Counter) such that the confusion will never end no matter how many times the Emperor is photographed without clothes :)
 
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bluecat

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I'm not a patent attorney. I assumed, for the sake of discussion, that *maybe* Evolve patented the process, such that including a user defined "Watts" and Temp setting on a display somehow violated a patent. Which I think the previous poster was trying to suggest. If that were true, it would not explain why all these other companies are making TC controlled mods with a watts/temp settings.

IOW, I don't buy the patent argument put forth, just for this reason alone. I am just convinced calling it a Joules setting was an admittedly brilliant piece of marketing (with no engineering basis whatsoever). But it was just marketing. And I do not believe in Fairy Tales, Pigs Flying, or lucky accidents when some engineer made a mistake and then changed jobs, or whatever the speculation was on the prior page(s). It is marketing. It is so good it is difficult to explain even though it is so clear to me what is going on, to the extent we need to know. They brilliantly interwove a kernel of totally unrelated truth (in the form of the Jules Counter) such that the confusion will never end no matter how many times the Emperor is photographed without clothes :)


Neither am I a patent attorney. I was just pointing out that some things you just cannot patent. I do know evolve has some patents but I don't remember or fully understand for that matter the details.

Not sure I buy that it was a patent reason either in calling it joules. I didn't think of a marketing issue but it does sound better. Quite frankly to the average vaper, joules is meaningless.

I do believe in fairy tales, to a certain point. It may not be fairies, dragons and monster but the underlying theme is general true. Of course, one has to read deep into it. Pigs flying? In Cincinnati, we have the Flying Pigs marathon every year, so maybe they did? Lucky accidents are one in our national debt X 100. :)
 

VNeil

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Neither am I a patent attorney. I was just pointing out that some things you just cannot patent. I do know evolve has some patents but I don't remember or fully understand for that matter the details.

Not sure I buy that it was a patent reason either in calling it joules. I didn't think of a marketing issue but it does sound better. Quite frankly to the average vaper, joules is meaningless.

I do believe in fairy tales, to a certain point. It may not be fairies, dragons and monster but the underlying theme is general true. Of course, one has to read deep into it. Pigs flying? In Cincinnati, we have the Flying Pigs marathon every year, so maybe they did? Lucky accidents are one in our national debt X 100. :)
When you sell something for 4x what the competition charges, you have to have some sizzle, some Product Differentiation. And when you have a competitor trying to do the same thing (Evolve), you again need some serious Product Differentiation.

You are right that most people do not understand Joules. That is why it makes a good marketing Secret Sauce. It's hard to over-hype something everyone clearly understands. It was interesting to listen to PBusardo tap dance around it. He seemed to think it was much to do about nothing but was uncomfortable actually calling them out on it because he was perhaps still trying to get his arms around the disconnect. And he seems quite knowledgeable about electronics.

Now think about the SX Mini M. What differentiates it from its competitors, both the $50 TC mods and Evolve's DNA series? Really only two things stand out to me, the one year warranty and Joules. If they had called the Joules setting a watts setting, and not made a big deal about Jules except to highlight the Jules Counter eye candy, what do they have left that makes you want to pay 4x for it, or steer yourself away from an Evolve?

And interestingly, I searched their site for specific warranty terms, but a site search (via their site search box) turns up nothing. I only found one sentence in their user manual in quite rough Chinglish. And I've read a couple things suggesting they have hidden warranty terms. For example, on some guy's web site they were supposedly interviewed, saying that their warranty is void in the case where the product is bought below retail price. That is not how I want to find out about the warranty terms backing my $200 (4x the cost of similar) product. But my concerns over the warranty do not seem to bother others?

In any event, take out the Joules thing and now see how this product appears, relative to it's $50 competitors and Evolve. That's marketing (the Joules thing). Joules is actually the cornerstone of their marketing.
 

jeffo937

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I'm a little late to the thread, but I will add that my IPV D2 with a YiHi sx130h chip also uses Joules in TC mode and it is not a $200 device. It is priced in the $40 to $55 range, so I'm not sure what that does for YiHi marketing.

I have no opinion to offer on Joules, however it has been my experience that the Joules setting is functionally no different than the "hard/normal/soft" ramp up temperature setting used in other TC devices, but with much more granular tuning. Right, wrong or otherwise that is how use the setting.
 
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