Sorry, I must have misunderstood what he meant by "It [CDR] is the 'every day' level you can operate at and still get good performance and good overall battery life ... ends up setting a discharge current level that results in a huge safety margin." Anyone care to break it down for me? Specifically, I guess I'm confused about meaning of the terms "every day level you can operate at" and "results in a huge safety margin."
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You're fixated on just one quote. I can give you another one
Add to that what I said about temperature in my last post and make of that what you will.
Eg the VTC6 can be used with 15A CDR, if you use it at 20A you need temperature monitoring. I wouldn't say 5A difference is a gigantic safety margin, considering CDR is a moving target and not a fixed number carved in stone for all eternity. The older/more (ab)used your battery gets the more the CDR will go down.
SourceI realize that many are vaping at discharge levels considerably above the continuous discharge rating (CDR) of their batteries and have done so without incident. But that doesn't mean it's done without risk.
Giving the community the tools and data we need to pick the best battery is very important to me though. I have a way to replace the pulse testing I do now. These new tests can be used to directly compare how hard one battery hits versus another and which is the better performer. It will simplify my testing too.
Many battery wrapping companies sell batteries with ratings that are considerably higher than the battery's true ratings. This is an issue I will continue to devote a lot of my time to.
I realize that many of you will be upset at these changes. I'm not doing this to piss off the high power vapers.
You will still have the tools you need to pick the best performing battery. I will post about this soon.
But I can only recommend to our community that we never exceed the continuous current rating (CDR) of any battery. These batteries were never meant to be used outside of a battery pack with suitable protection electronics.
Each of us can decide the level of risk we wish to take ourselves but we should recommend safe battery use to others.
Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum
Add to that what I said about temperature in my last post and make of that what you will.
Eg the VTC6 can be used with 15A CDR, if you use it at 20A you need temperature monitoring. I wouldn't say 5A difference is a gigantic safety margin, considering CDR is a moving target and not a fixed number carved in stone for all eternity. The older/more (ab)used your battery gets the more the CDR will go down.
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CDR is similar to rpm red line of an internal combustion engine.
Sure you can run full tilt all day but there is a price to pay in efficiency and longevity/service life, the likelihood of premature failure increases as rpm goes higher.
Same goes for pushing cells near, to or past their red line/CDR.
Instead of pooping all over the OP's thread why not ask mooch himself about it if you're confused about something he said or you thought he said.
Sure you can run full tilt all day but there is a price to pay in efficiency and longevity/service life, the likelihood of premature failure increases as rpm goes higher.
Same goes for pushing cells near, to or past their red line/CDR.
Instead of pooping all over the OP's thread why not ask mooch himself about it if you're confused about something he said or you thought he said.
When it comes to any battery in use a good rule of thumb for most vapers is simply "when in doubt, toss it out."
And, discharging at less than half...doesn't?
Okay, so running a battery at 50% of CDR is safer, and will last longer, than running it at 100% CDR. I understand that. Want to know what's even safer, and longer-lasting than that? Try running it at 25%. Still not enough? Run it at 12.5% of CDR. Somewhere there's a line of what's "good enough." I was under the impression that CDR, not 50% of CDR, was that line.
Not once have I advocated going over a battery's CDR. Just up to and including. I used to mention MVA (with the associated caveats), but when Mooch stopped posting it, I stopped talking about it.
The way I see it, CDR isn't a "property" that the battery "has," but rather it is a statement that someone (Mooch, the manufacturer, the guy on eBay...I trust the first guy, more than the other two) makes about the battery. CDR is the level at which you are being told that you can use the battery for X-number of charge cycles (the number I've heard is 200-300, if I recall), without significant deterioration. In that context, CDR only applies to a new cell. Obviously, after you've used the battery for so many cycles, you can't still use it for X-number more, because many of them have already been used up by that point. However, that doesn't necessarily mean the CDR has been "reduced," it just means the battery has fewer cycles remaining in its lifespan. That's how I see it, anyway.
Yes, if you're going to draw a line that says "the battery will blow up at this discharge level here," that line is going to go down as the battery ages. But CDR is not that line. CDR is a line that says "hey, even if you use this like this for a long time, that big scary line that we are worried should still be way up over our heads for quite a while, still."
I'll admit, I may have thought I was still in the "how low can you go" thread. I just reply to the comments wherever I see 'em posted.
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Let me ask you this: do you drive 50% under the speed limit on the highway? After all, as your tires, suspension, etc. become older, they do not perform as well as when they were new. Or do you trust that the speed limit is chosen to cover a wide range of conditions, and you should only be worried if you have reason to suspect your vehicle is in a particularly advanced state of disrepair?
As the battery ages, the CDR does drop.
@Mooch has posted before approx 20% (if I recall correctly)
I hope someday he has time to do some testing on some aged/used cells.
I have plenty of candidates if he needs them.
Discharging at less than half does further improve life, but the benefit is added at a decreasing rate. Discharging at greater than half CDR further reduces life and the harm increases at an increasing rate (until it goes boom). As @untar says, temperature is a major factor and higher discharge rates increase temperature.
The what's good enough line is up to the user. If the user wants power, he/she is going to trade battery life to get it. If he/she prefers battery life, it will cost power.
In the sense that CDR is an intrinsic property that the battery "has," then sure, an old battery "has" a lower CDR than a new one.
In the sense that CDR is a statement made by a person about a battery's overall performance throughout its entire lifespan, I disagree. An old battery's overall life, under defined conditions, looks much the same as a new battery's (of the same type, under the same conditions) overall life. The only difference being that most of the old battery's "overall life" is in the past, while most of the new battery's life occurs in the future. And so, such a statement as "this battery is good for a total x-number of cycles at such-and-such a discharge before performance drops to so-and-so predefined levels" is just as true for a battery that's near that total, as one that still has a long way to go. The key, I guess, is whether you're talking about CDR in relation to the total number of charge cycles in the battery's life, or just the remaining number of cycles (I'm always talking about it in the sense of total cycles.)
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No, that does not look right. I googled "vaporesso target low battery" and found this video (YouTube, /watch?v=DijKmg8AZg4 -- you'll have to copy/paste the video ID, I can't embed it or leave a clickable link 'cause there's a cuss word in it). Looks like it is not just limited to your individual unit, then, but a repeated defect in the production line. When/where did you buy it? Can you return it, and get something else?
The efest is actually a 10a CDR cell at best, meaning it shouldn't be used above 30w.
The aspire of unknown age, charge / discharge cycle count could certainly be nearing the end of its useful life.
Best to buy new name brand cells with a sufficient CDR for the power range you vape from a reputable dealer.
Up to 45ish watts Samsung 30q - Sony VTC 6 both 3000mah.
Up to 60ish watts LG hg2 3000mah - Samsung 25R 2500mah.
Up to 75w Sony vtc5A 2500mah
Above watt ranges are per cell,,, 2 cell power device double the watts,, 3 cell triple.
I buy my cells here ---> Batteries and Chargers
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Thank you very much Topwater.. the efest was recommended at a local shop. I only bought it because it was the better of the 2 they had on the shelf. I'll look into your link for a new purchase
I got it from a buddy of mine. I recently quit smoking again. Hopefully for good this time ship no chance of replacing. I'm thinking of getting the drag mod 157w as my next shortly
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