Dodgy Marketing methods?

[surbitonPete]

I have just become interested in the rather dubious sales techniques being used on the internet and how it affects forums. I just read this little article about making money by being an affiliate to a product.

Now that you have chosen your affiliate product or service, you need to direct traffic to your sales pages. But you can’t be satisfied with just any general non-targeted traffic. You need prospects who will be interested in the product or service that you are marketing.
Here are a few ways to generate targeted traffic to your affiliate link.
Forums - Become an active participant in a forum related to your niche. Put a link to your sales page in your signature if the forum rules permit it. Spamming the forum is not an option. Add value to the forum by joining in debates and answering questions. People may even start to recognize you as an expert on your chosen topic. If the forum members like your style, the quality of your posts or even the promotional text in your signature you can generate targeted traffic without spending a dime.

Dodgy Sales techniques have come a long way since the days of the used car salesman and I am trying to understand how it all works.... does anyone know a lot more about it?? I am particularly interested in if it's possible for someone to make money out of simply mentioning the name of a product. Can software track that kind of thing?

 

[Willowsong]

Gonna hate me more if I say yes?

Internet marketing has exploded and so have the dodgy techniques that go along with any type of sales.

You see lots of "20 packs of smokes in one cartridge" claims... you see "I just bought this brand new e-cig and I was wondering"... You see spam email...

But you also see blogs, social networks (myspace, facebook, livejournal), you tube... SEO on the most basic websites, keyword buys on every search engine including things like yahoo groups... linked sites ... paid upsells... pre-checked upsells... the list goes on.

Did you have a specific question?

 

[Babachoo]

I have just become interested in the rather dubious sales techniques being used on the internet and how it affects forums. I just read this little article about making money by being an affiliate to a product.

Now that you have chosen your affiliate product or service, you need to direct traffic to your sales pages. But you can’t be satisfied with just any general non-targeted traffic. You need prospects who will be interested in the product or service that you are marketing.
Here are a few ways to generate targeted traffic to your affiliate link.
Forums - Become an active participant in a forum related to your niche. Put a link to your sales page in your signature if the forum rules permit it. Spamming the forum is not an option. Add value to the forum by joining in debates and answering questions. People may even start to recognize you as an expert on your chosen topic. If the forum members like your style, the quality of your posts or even the promotional text in your signature you can generate targeted traffic without spending a dime.

Dodgy Sales techniques have come a long way since the days of the used car salesman and I am trying to understand how it all works.... does anyone know a lot more about it?? I am particularly interested in if it's possible for someone to make money out of simply mentioning the name of a product. Can software track that kind of thing?

I run an internet services company when I'm not at my full time job. We handle SEO, SERP, marketing, advertising, sales, and many aspects of viral marketing and affiliate programs. I'd be more than happy to try and answer some questions here or elsewhere that might better inform the public of internet marketing methods, and to make them more aware (and leery) of what appears to be genuine endorsements.

Firstly though, referring to your post, affiliate links are easy to spot. If someone posts a link that contains extra characters, an md5 hash, or anything that has something like "ID=340034", rather than just a straightforward link to the page, you can be sure that the person posting the link is making a profit for everyone who follows the link. Depending on various affiliate programs, they'll get paid just for referring traffic, either paid based on CPM (cost per 1000 impressions), CPC (cost per clickthrough to the site), or a percentage of the sales that they refer to the site.

I also run forums that are quite popular and big targets for spammers, so I am quite up to date with even the most subtle techniques they use to spamvertise. I could consult with the admins here if I had the time, to make them aware of some advanced tactics spammers will use, but I really don't have the time to volunteer my services here as a mod or anything. But if I ever do free up the time, I'd love to help out however I could here. Until then I'll just try and help however my time allows.

EDIT: Also, yes, software, tracking images, and server logs can easily be used to track affiliate program metrics, but you need to be one of the two parties involved in the affiliate sales program (vendor or freelance affiliate) to be able to track these things automatically. Without being in the loop though, you're going to have to just keep an eye out for things.

But the admin of this forum could use quite a few of the default VB tools to put an end to many of the tactics they use.

 

[surbitonPete]

Willowsong (for some reason I really like that name) I wouldn't hate you.....I just like to know and fully understand what's going on around me.

Thanks Babachoo, your post was very interesting.

 

[Caesarea]

I also run forums that are quite popular and big targets for spammers, so I am quite up to date with even the most subtle techniques they use to spamvertise.

Blimey I'm a nosy possum - but in very general terms what sort of forums do you oversee, Babachoo?

Best,



C.

 

[surbitonPete]

Blimey I'm a nosy possum - but in very general terms what sort of forums do you oversee, Babachoo?

Best,



C.

Hi C.

I think we need Babachoo to find some time to chat to our mods........lol.

 

[Babachoo]

My most popular forum is a music forum, for musicians and music lovers alike. The others are either general discussion or car related.

 

[Caesarea]

My most popular forum is a music forum, for musicians and music lovers alike. The others are either general discussion or car related.

I suppose the car one is a popular spammers' target, there's so much hyping of different makes...

Thanks! Was just bein' nosy!!!! A failing of mine, so thanks for the hints on identifying spam via links.

Best

C.

 

[Babachoo]

I suppose the car one is a popular spammers' target, there's so much hyping of different makes...

Thanks! Was just bein' nosy!!!! A failing of mine, so thanks for the hints on identifying spam via links.

Best

C.

Actually, the music forum generates the most spam, since there are so many more "products" to promote. Each individual artist being a product, plus every instrument and device related to music production, makes for a nice place to spamvertise A LOT of products and bands. But I have really made dealing with it quite automated and hassle free, so it's not so bad as long as you have a system for thwarting it. I've seen a lot of forum owners pull their hair out and quit after a year or two.

 

[surbitonPete]

Actually, the music forum generates the most spam, since there are so many more "products" to promote. Each individual artist being a product, plus every instrument and device related to music production, makes for a nice place to spamvertise A LOT of products and bands. But I have really made dealing with it quite automated and hassle free, so it's not so bad as long as you have a system for thwarting it. I've seen a lot of forum owners pull their hair out and quit after a year or two.

I wonder if SJ still has all his hair..lol

 

[Babachoo]

I wonder if SJ still has all his hair..lol

I don't know, but I started getting grey hairs at 28 so I know it can certainly be stressful.

 

[mamacat]

Pete, Baba, and C ~

Many thanks for the "inner" working knowledge of how this marketing takes shape. You have given a "face" to the "faceless."

I had been wondering how it worked b/c it seems to be somewhat innocent at first and then - BAM - it is like TNT going off. 8-o

I am going to bookmark this thread as a reference.

Again, many thanks to all. mama

 

[Babachoo]

I bet the mods are familiar with this one...

One user (just registered) starts a thread and asks "Who has the best prices on good ejuice?".

User X comes along (new account in most cases also) and says "ZOMFG YOU GOTTA CHECK OUT www.assflavoredfluid.com, they sell the best tasting juice you've ever vaped, and it's only like $60 for 30ml bottles!"

User X has the same IP as the OP, both get banned. At least they would on my forums, I have no idea how vigilant and active the mods are here. I kinda suspect that they might not really care, as long as someone isn't just posting tubgirl or goatse. After all, this forum has become very commercial in nature, and basically accepts money in exchange for giving any and all suppliers the illusion of good standing, by giving them their own subforums and displaying their ads. That kinda of thing may kill the forum in the long run, but it's not my place to judge. There will always be alternatives, I just hope it never gets so bad that I have to leave here.

 

[Caesarea]

You got me curious again...



What other ploys should we look out for, Babachoo? Not as mods, but as ordinary members.

C.

 

[surbitonPete]

I bet the mods are familiar with this one...

One user (just registered) starts a thread and asks "Who has the best prices on good ejuice?".

User X comes along (new account in most cases also) and says "ZOMFG YOU GOTTA CHECK OUT www.assflavoredfluid.com, they sell the best tasting juice you've ever vaped, and it's only like $60 for 30ml bottles!"

User X has the same IP as the OP, both get banned. At least they would on my forums, I have no idea how vigilant and active the mods are here. I kinda suspect that they might not really care, as long as someone isn't just posting tubgirl or goatse. After all, this forum has become very commercial in nature, and basically accepts money in exchange for giving any and all suppliers the illusion of good standing, by giving them their own subforums and displaying their ads. That kinda of thing may kill the forum in the long run, but it's not my place to judge. There will always be alternatives, I just hope it never gets so bad that I have to leave here.

Hmm I think I have seen that one myself, Wow, that's really interesting.

 

[Elendil]

It would never occur to me or interest me to click on a link in a signature line............

 

[Babachoo]

You got me curious again...



What other ploys should we look out for, Babachoo? Not as mods, but as ordinary members.

C.

As ordinary members, just keep in mind that there will be thousands of people joining this forum just to recommend their own products or products that will get them paid if they recommend. Beware of buzzwords, enthusiasm a bit off the scale relative to the subject matter, links in signatures, engrish, copy/pasted materials (google a sentence or two in quotes and find it posted on other forums verbatim), outrageous claims, anything involving sending money via wire transfers, Nigerian bank accounts, etc...

There's a whole lot more to look for as a mod with access to IP's and advanced search engine usage, but that's just a few things the average user should look for. Basically, if it looks like a sales pitch and not a genuine recommendation, don't trust it. Train your intuition and analytical reasoning to spot this garbage and your forum life will be a lot easier. Get a mod or two that can do the same, and the burden to sift through the garbage is taken off the users completely. I don't mean to sound too judgemental because I have used the model a long time ago on a particular board of mine, but the whole "charge the spammers money and give them recognition" thing seems to be the status quo here. It works to an extent, and rather than eliminating spam it just quarantees it to certain areas. But once you have so many of these "pay to advertise" merchants on board at the forum, it gets so competitive that they start taking it to newer levels, using different tactics to get their products noticed over the other guys.

It hasn't quite hit that level yet here, but when it does, it won't be pretty.


EDIT: Forgot to add my rule of thumb when it comes to sig links. If it's a link to a site that you've never heard of, and you halfway pay attention to the internet, then that site is owned by the person posting it and it is an advertisement. If however there are more than one sig links, to two or more different sites you've never heard of, either the above case is true or the person is selling their sig space to post links for other people. Multiple sig links you have never heard of = 99.99% chance that one of the above two scenarios are true.

 

[Caesarea]

Thanks for the useful tips. Looking at some of the music and games forums, I can see that they can become utterly charmless.

Best
C.

 

[surbitonPete]

Thanks for all your information Babachoo. It's certainly eye opening.

 

[Babachoo]

Thanks for the useful tips. Looking at some of the music and games forums, I can see that they can become utterly charmless.

Best
C.

No trouble at all.

And I agree, many of them devolve into flame wars and such. But we have pretty rigid standards as far as behavior on the forums. We try and discourage things like AOL speak and "broken shift key syndrome" which is just lazy typing with no use of punctuation and capitalization. We also swiftly ban any spammers and people who break our rules by doing things like attacking people instead of tactfully debating ideas. It has worked well so far, though it does hurt us as far as keeping us from being the biggest forum in the world. But I'd much rather have a small group of educated people having civil conversations than be #10 on Alexa but have our forums look like 4chan.

Thanks for all your information Babachoo. It's certainly eye opening.

You're certainly welcome.