Does massive cloud production automatically equal hot vapor?

[TheRealTylerDurden]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I don't have a competition RDA/RDTA/Tank and I get cooooool clouds forever off of everything, but especially my Mako Shorty RDA with two claptons running at a combined 0.37ohms on a Sigelei 150W mod at 90W. But there is a learning curve to using an RDA/RDTA. RDAs are not as straightforward as one would think.

- With NOTHING in the RDA, draw through it as hard as you can. Now this tells you the maximum air flow in the device. It is your target and you can come close to it if you know what you're doing.
- Prepare, install and try out coils for the RDA. After applying cotton, try it. How is the airflow? If it is less, then you are either running too much coil in the RDA, cotton is placed incorrectly, or have bad placement on the coil.
- what I have found is that the coil can be placed slightly above and out of the way of the airflow opening. Push the coil away from the opening, and upward, in a short RDA. The cotton has to be draped down in to the juice wells.

Every RDA/RDTA is different but you get the idea. Ideal, cool, airflow is possible with giant cloudzzzz, depending on the wattage you apply.

 

[NickVapesEh]

it all depends on the size of the atty, amount of airflow, and position of the coils. It takes a bit of playing around to get exactly the vape your looking for

 

[edyle]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w Eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

Inhaling slower will Not make bigger clouds; and it will tend to make the vape hotter on vw.

The smok tfv4 was made for clouds.

And no, massive cloud production does not automatically equal hot vape.
More cloud requires more power; more power means more chance of inefficient energy transfer resulting in unnecessary heat instead of cloud.

 

[MattyTny]

The temperature of the vapor and airflow restriction can differ depending on the atomizer, a lot of vapor doesn't always mean a hotter vape. Make sure that you draw on your atty according to it's airflow, if it's wide open you'll need to pull straight into your lungs rather than mouth than lungs otherwise the vape will feel hotter. It's all about how the air is pulled over the coils to create your ideal heat.

As for a clearo tank with replaceable coil units you'll have to play with the wattage and airflow settings. I'd say start at 30 watts with the airflow halfway open. Also, 50watts could be too much for a 0.5ohm resistance.

 

[Leo Bak]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Max vg doesn't give a lot throathit, pg does and higher nic levels too. When using the STM, you really should get an authentic RBA plus, especially with high vg juice. I assume it did come with the 'new improved' AFC base since it's part of a subox kit?

I use my STM's with the v2 RBA (also called the 'plus'), and build them with either 6 wraps of 24awg kanthal a1 with ID of 3mm, or 26awg ss316l, 7 wraps ID 3mm, both slightly spaced and both around 0.5 Ohms. I use kanthal with an average 22.5 Watts on a Kbox mini, the ss316l in tc mode on an evic vtc mini at 92 tcr. My fav juice ratio is 60pg/40vg atm.

Both setups give sufficient clouds, great taste, enough airflow. When i use the Kbox (or any boxmod) above 30 Watts with a STM, it does get too hot for me, as i'm a dl-vaper. But some people could set them higher, matter of taste. I have a few mods that go till 150 or even 200 Watts, but with my STM's or serpents (both single coils, 0.5 Ohm builds), that's overkill. Dual or triple battery mods do last quite a while however.

If cloudchasing is really important to you, the STM might not be the right equipment for you, you might want to get some dual or triple coil tanks, maybe RDA's. Or experiment with lower resistance coils on your STM.

 

[wheelie]

Not in the mod it is in the atty. Mod is just a power source. I can rebuild any stock coil and make them better than originals. Air flow is a factor as well. Big clouds do not necessarily mean heat. I can throw out big clouds on a single rebuildable coil in my TFV4 on 42 watts and it is not a hot vape. Subtanks are certainly not cloud tanks. Infact I think they are horrible tanks for lung inhales. With big clouds you go though horrendous amount of juice. My TFV4 I keep for treats because I can burn through a 30ml bottle in a day. Want a tank that throws out big clouds be prepared to spend large money on coils unless you rebuild. DIY juice makes a 30ml bottle 3 or 4 dollars. A lot more to it than just throwing up big clouds to beat your buddies. CHEERS!

 

[Two_Bears]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w Eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

The pg will boost the throat hit.

You said you were using90/10. Which is the VG number?

If you want a cooler vape back off on the wattage.

Another thing. You can get an rba for your subtank mini at Fasttech.com.

 

[cruizydude]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w Eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

Hey , this might be a silly question but are you mouth to lung on it or direct lung hitting ?????

 

[cruizydude]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w Eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

This might be a silly question buy are you mouth to lung on it or direct lung inhale ???

 

[USMCotaku]

Hey guys! After dicking around with cartomizers, a pen style cheapo Aspire clearomizer, and a 16w Eleaf, I finally upgraded to the mod I've been pining for for awhile- the Kangertech Subox mini kit. I bought it gently used, so it didn't come with the rba. I've been using the 0.5 ohn coils, max vg or 90/10 juice at 3mg, running 40-50 watts. I'm just not getting the throat hit I desire, nor the clouds I wish for. I also feel as though I'm suffocating when I hit it- not enough airflow for my liking. It's a huge step up, but I'm not sure if it's enough of a step.

I've tried a few 100-150w setups, and I can't seem to get the clouds others do. With the subtank mini, I have to really pull hard on it, otherwise the vapor becomes really hot and the drip tip burns my lips. With the increased airflow of other rta's and rda's, I'm guessing you have to inhale slower to get big clouds? When I do that though, the vapor becomes uncomfortably hot. I really like the nice and cool refreshing vapor I get from my Subox, but I want more.

I've gotten some conflicting opinions from people, some say mad clouds means hot vape, some say temp control will keep it cool. Then others say with a cool temp, I won't be getting mad clouds.. Who's right? Will an rda or an rta like the Herakles make a big difference on my subox, or just a small one? If I get a higher wattage mod, will I be stuck with smallish clouds unless I have hot vapor?

Thanks in advance!

a few things....no cloud does not always mean heat. The more surface area your coil has in contact with the wick, the more liquid will be vaporized at a time...equaling more cloud (on a VW device). So unlike a mech mod, building HIGHER ohms will often net you larger clouds (while netting a cooler vape).

placement of coil also has an effect.....place it closer to the airflow for more cloud/flavor...place it farther away for increased throat hit.

With some exceptions (like some of the TFV4 coils) you won't tend to get as much "cloud" out of premade coils. If that is what you are aiming for, a good RDA with nice open airflow will be your best bet.

 

[suprtrkr]

It's all interdependent. Vapor, of course, it hot by nature, it's evaporated from ejuice. In general, the more power the coils make at the surface, the more cloud you get, so long as your wick can keep up. So yeah, generally, more cloud is hotter. But it also matters about air flow through the atomizer, what percentage, if you will, of what you inhale is hot vapor molecules and what cool air molecules-- both of which are exchanging thermal flow continuously even as your draw on the drip tip, see the Second Law of Thermodynamics for a complete statement. In practice, and all other things being equal, which they never are, yes, more cloud is hotter than less cloud.

 

[BrotherBob]

Glad you posted.
+1 for @suprtrkr commenst. He probably has and uses his old steam tables.
More heat = more cloud all things being equal.

 

[TheRealTylerDurden]

Cool, thanks!

 

[TheRealTylerDurden]

I don't have a competition RDA/RDTA/Tank and I get cooooool clouds forever off of everything, but especially my Mako Shorty RDA with two claptons running at a combined 0.37ohms on a Sigelei 150W mod at 90W. But there is a learning curve to using an RDA/RDTA. RDAs are not as straightforward as one would think.

- With NOTHING in the RDA, draw through it as hard as you can. Now this tells you the maximum air flow in the device. It is your target and you can come close to it if you know what you're doing.
- Prepare, install and try out coils for the RDA. After applying cotton, try it. How is the airflow? If it is less, then you are either running too much coil in the RDA, cotton is placed incorrectly, or have bad placement on the coil.
- what I have found is that the coil can be placed slightly above and out of the way of the airflow opening. Push the coil away from the opening, and upward, in a short RDA. The cotton has to be draped down in to the juice wells.

Every RDA/RDTA is different but you get the idea. Ideal, cool, airflow is possible with giant cloudzzzz, depending on the wattage you apply.

Cool, thanks!

it all depends on the size of the atty, amount of airflow, and position of the coils. It takes a bit of playing around to get exactly the vape your looking for

Right on. The more I get into this, the more I realize it's just one big experiment!

Inhaling slower will Not make bigger clouds; and it will tend to make the vape hotter on vw.

The smok tfv4 was made for clouds.

And no, massive cloud production does not automatically equal hot vape.
More cloud requires more power; more power means more chance of inefficient energy transfer resulting in unnecessary heat instead of cloud.

Right on. Science b*tch! Haha

The temperature of the vapor and airflow restriction can differ depending on the atomizer, a lot of vapor doesn't always mean a hotter vape. Make sure that you draw on your atty according to it's airflow, if it's wide open you'll need to pull straight into your lungs rather than mouth than lungs otherwise the vape will feel hotter. It's all about how the air is pulled over the coils to create your ideal heat.

As for a clearo tank with replaceable coil units you'll have to play with the wattage and airflow settings. I'd say start at 30 watts with the airflow halfway open. Also, 50watts could be too much for a 0.5ohm resistance.

Cool, thanks!

Hi and welcome to the forum. Max vg doesn't give a lot throathit, pg does and higher nic levels too. When using the STM, you really should get an authentic RBA plus, especially with high vg juice. I assume it did come with the 'new improved' AFC base since it's part of a subox kit?

I use my STM's with the v2 RBA (also called the 'plus'), and build them with either 6 wraps of 24awg kanthal a1 with ID of 3mm, or 26awg ss316l, 7 wraps ID 3mm, both slightly spaced and both around 0.5 Ohms. I use kanthal with an average 22.5 Watts on a Kbox mini, the ss316l in tc mode on an evic vtc mini at 92 tcr. My fav juice ratio is 60pg/40vg atm.

Both setups give sufficient clouds, great taste, enough airflow. When i use the Kbox (or any boxmod) above 30 Watts with a STM, it does get too hot for me, as i'm a dl-vaper. But some people could set them higher, matter of taste. I have a few mods that go till 150 or even 200 Watts, but with my STM's or serpents (both single coils, 0.5 Ohm builds), that's overkill. Dual or triple battery mods do last quite a while however.

If cloudchasing is really important to you, the STM might not be the right equipment for you, you might want to get some dual or triple coil tanks, maybe RDA's. Or experiment with lower resistance coils on your STM.

Right on, thanks! Not sure if I've got the new AFC, how would Ivgo about figuring that out?

Not in the mod it is in the atty. Mod is just a power source. I can rebuild any stock coil and make them better than originals. Air flow is a factor as well. Big clouds do not necessarily mean heat. I can throw out big clouds on a single rebuildable coil in my TFV4 on 42 watts and it is not a hot vape. Subtanks are certainly not cloud tanks. Infact I think they are horrible tanks for lung inhales. With big clouds you go though horrendous amount of juice. My TFV4 I keep for treats because I can burn through a 30ml bottle in a day. Want a tank that throws out big clouds be prepared to spend large money on coils unless you rebuild. DIY juice makes a 30ml bottle 3 or 4 dollars. A lot more to it than just throwing up big clouds to beat your buddies. CHEERS!

30mg/DAY?? WOW! Thanks!

The pg will boost the throat hit.

You said you were using90/10. Which is the VG number?

If you want a cooler vape back off on the wattage.

Another thing. You can get an rba for your subtank mini at Fasttech.com.

Ahhhh, cool, thanks! 90 % vg

Hey , this might be a silly question but are you mouth to lung on it or direct lung hitting ?????

Direct lung!

a few things....no cloud does not always mean heat. The more surface area your coil has in contact with the wick, the more liquid will be vaporized at a time...equaling more cloud (on a VW device). So unlike a mech mod, building HIGHER ohms will often net you larger clouds (while netting a cooler vape).

placement of coil also has an effect.....place it closer to the airflow for more cloud/flavor...place it farther away for increased throat hit.

With some exceptions (like some of the TFV4 coils) you won't tend to get as much "cloud" out of premade coils. If that is what you are aiming for, a good RDA with nice open airflow will be your best bet.

Interesting. Thanks! Were you in the service?

It's all interdependent. Vapor, of course, it hot by nature, it's evaporated from ejuice. In general, the more power the coils make at the surface, the more cloud you get, so long as your wick can keep up. So yeah, generally, more cloud is hotter. But it also matters about air flow through the atomizer, what percentage, if you will, of what you inhale is hot vapor molecules and what cool air molecules-- both of which are exchanging thermal flow continuously even as your draw on the drip tip, see the Second Law of Thermodynamics for a complete statement. In practice, and all other things being equal, which they never are, yes, more cloud is hotter than less cloud.

Right on, thanks!

Glad you posted.
+1 for @suprtrkr commenst. He probably has and uses his old steam tables.
More heat = more cloud all things being equal.

Damn! Haha, well thanks!

 

[anavidfan]

I think a lot of the info you just read is true.

But some of it does have to do with your inhaling technique and your own lung capacity and ability to take big inhales. I had a Saber Touch with a Kick combined with a reg Carto tank set up. Wattage was at about 8? I would get nice thick clouds, not "one puff, and the whole room is fogged" but I constantly got comments ( at the time) at the local vape shops.

I gave the setup to my ex brother in law and damn if he didnt fill the room in one giant puff. I could never get that result with the same everything.

Just my

 

[USMCotaku]

Interesting. Thanks! Were you in the service?

Yes

 

[TheRealTylerDurden]

I think a lot of the info you just read is true.

But some of it does have to do with your inhaling technique and your own lung capacity and ability to take big inhales. I had a Saber Touch with a Kick combined with a reg Carto tank set up. Wattage was at about 8? I would get nice thick clouds, not "one puff, and the whole room is fogged" but I constantly got comments ( at the time) at the local vape shops.

I gave the setup to my ex brother in law and damn if he didnt fill the room in one giant puff. I could never get that result with the same everything.

Just my

Interesting. [removed] Then I starting smoking cigarettes, and my lung capacity significantly decreased. I don't smoke **** anymore, but I can tell just from the difference between the clouds I get from the same devices as others that my lung cap is way down. Hopefully it'll come back now that I've quit cigs and gotten back into mountain biking. Thanks for the reply!

 

[TheRealTylerDurden]

Yes

Thank you. If I hadn't gotten diabetes at age 8, I would've been giving you air support in an A-10!

 

[Leo Bak]

The newer AFC valve base should look like this:

Here's some info on the different rba's: KangerTech SUBTANK Mini