Does shorting permanently damage a mod?

[Ryuukon]

So a couple weeks ago I bought a Panzer clone by Infinite, and it was working great. Then the other day out of the blue (no atomizer changes, no battery changes, etc) the top cap got REALLY hot. I immediately tore the mod apart to get the battery out (A Sony VTC4), which was also very hot. Put the battery aside for awhile to let it cool, and to keep an eye on it to make sure it wasn't going to vent.

So I decided I'd just leave the Squape alone for awhile till I felt like rebuilding it and checking everything out and popped a Kayfun on my Panzer along with a different battery (this one an Efest 18650 2000mah). As soon as I tightened everything down (finger snug mind you, not super tight, with the pin adjusted just enough to avoid battery rattle), I hit the switch to test it, and the switch instantly got super hot and burned my finger. So I tore the Panzer apart again, but this battery was WAAAY hot, and I was seriously thinking it was going to vent, so I opened the window and tossed it outside into the lawn. Better to vent there than in my den.

Both my Squape and that particular Kayfun check out just fine. The coils didn't even pop. I can use them right now on my Stingray and 69 and they work without a problem.

Neither of those batteries actually vented, but just to avoid any potential problems down the road they are now both wrapped in plastic bags waiting to be recycled. Not going to use either one of them again.

Now the Panzer though...

Just to test, I took my nautilus and double checked everything on it to make sure it was safe, which it was, and popped it onto my Panzer. Then I took an 18500, about a month old and not fully charged, and dropped it in the Panzer after taking one of the tubes off. I adjusted the pin for battery rattle... screwed it all together, hit the switch for a second... tore it apart... and the battery had started to get hot. So obviously there is something wrong with the Panzer now.

My question is... is it possible that a short can damage a mechanical mod in some way to render it useless, or am I likely just looking at a faulty mod? I've pulled the pin from the top cap and don't see any damage, though I did at that point realize how very little clearance there is between the pin and the threads of the 510 connection, at least in this clone. The switch seems to be fine with no visible defects, and I haven't spotted anything on the body anywhere, but something is definitely wrong since it is shorting everything that touches it.

[Edit]

Another recent post reminded me of something potentially pertinent. I did replace the spring in my Panzer's switch with magnets, but I don't see how that could have affected anything.

 

[CloudZ]

Can you post a picture of the positive pin, where it gets close to the 510 threads? Are the toppers screwing down flush or is there a gap? Does it seem possible that the positive pin is too wide, so it is shorting out on the base of the toppers' 510 threads?

Shorting out a mod shouldn't damage it, but of course you need to figure out where it is shorting and try to fix it. If it isn't the switch, its the positive pin. If the pin is too wide you could try filing down the top edge (chamfer it). Its probably a good call to not use the batteries anymore, but if you do just make sure they don't get hot with normal use and don't lose their charge more quickly than normal. The scariest part would be recharging them, which is where a damaged cell is most likely to vent.

Good luck!

EDIT: Just saw your edit. Try it with the spring, perhaps you didn't install the magnets correctly.

 

[Ryuukon]

I actually did change out the magnet to the spring already during my first rebuild and it still shorted. Like I said though, I don't think it's really part of the issue since the way the Panzer switch is designed, it's always able to pass current, it's just not actually touching the battery until the switch is pressed since it is separated by a delrin ring.





[Edit]

More images...



This image shows the switch disassembled. The shaft of the button makes constant contact with the body of the switch so it's always capable of passing current, through itself and into the body of the Panzer. That delrin ring on the body of the switch just keeps it from making contact with the bottom of the battery.



This one shows the switch assembled without the locking ring to show the constant connection.

 

[Ryuukon]

View attachment 336930

One more image of the top cap with the pin pulled and the adjustable screw taken out of the pin.

 

[catilley1092]

It may be the batteries. AW is a highly recommended brand & there's an article on this forum about it. However, buy these from authorized dealers only, there are reports of fakes being sold on eBay from Albania.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

Hope that this article is helpful.

Cat

 

[Ryuukon]

I don't think it's the batteries either. Well, possibly, but for 2 to go bad one right after the other is kind of weird. The Sony VTC4 I bought from my local B&M. I'll post a link to their website if it's allowed, directly to the battery in question. The Efest 18650 I actually bought 2 of online, but I honestly don't remember exactly who I bought them from, still have 1 of them left. The 18500 that got hot I got from Madvapes (IMR 18500, LiMn 1100mAh Battery). I actually saw uh... was GrimmGreen I think... using these.

[Edit]

Eh, posting the link to my local B&M that I buy from for the battery I was using. Hopefully I don't get in trouble, but figured if people can post links to online vendors, then B&Ms that do business online should be ok too.

http://www.ublazevapor.com/products/sony-18650-vtc4-limn-2000mah-30-amp-battery

 

[Ryuukon]

One last bit of info before I quit flooding my own thread. The Squape I was using had a 1.26 ohm 28 gauge coil in it at the time, have since rebuilt it to 1.64 ohm 30 gauge so I can use it on my old Vamo V3. The Kayfun still has the 1.08 ohm coil in it that it had when I tried it on the Panzer, and I've been using it on my Stingray since then just fine.

 

[catilley1092]

In that case then, you may have a defective mod or component of it. Something's touching somewhere it's not supposed to, for the batteries to get that hot.

The bottom of my Astro clone comes apart similar to yours, I once had to clean it up good & replace the spring. Not being there with my hands on the mod, it's hard to say what it is.

Yes I agree, two batteries going bad isn't a coincidence. Something's not right.

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

Have you ever tried a vape safe fuse? You may can get one for less if you know a local dealer good, but here's a sample of one. It attaches to the negative terminal of the battery by magnet.

Smoktech 7A Magnetic Vape Safe Safety Fuse | eBay

Cat

 

[Ryuukon]

I was actually looking at getting one of these...

ShortStop by Holocron Labs

It's reusable, and something I'd need until I can find out what exactly is going on with this Panzer. Otherwise I'd be going through a few of those Vape Safe fuses trying to figure out what the problem is.

 

[MrPlink]

How do your insulators look?

 

[Ryuukon]

How do your insulators look?

They look just fine, not melted in any way. The top delrin insulator holds the 510 pin really snug still, and the bottom insulator isn't melted or compressed in anyway. It still keeps the bottom of the battery from touching the firing pin.

 

[23skidoo]

Checkout post number 3 in this thread- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...on/563034-nemesis-mod-short.html#post13141732

This is assuming you have a meter to test with. By splitting the mod in half and testing both ends with and without the battery you should be able to at the least find out which end is giving you issues.

 

[Ryuukon]

I'd been using an analog multimeter to test with, but decided to just finally knuckle down and picked up a decent digital meter. It's not a Fluke brand, but I can't afford one. This one is made by GE.

Anyway... after all my testing, everything is almost checking out. The body is measuring at 0. Well, actually 0.3, but 0.3 is the resistance of the leads of the multimeter. The switch is measuring at 0. The 510 connection though... At times it measures 0, but at times it fluctuates. I think it's making some very very very light contact between the pin and the 510 threads. So I think I'm going to try and sand that down so there's more distance between the pin and the threads.

The one good thing I've realized doing all this testing is that this mod has surprisingly very low voltage drop. With a fresh battery measuring 4.18 volts, then testing the cap and switch separately with the body attached to each, the voltage was measuring 4.17.

Now to just fix this shorting issue...

What I think I'm going to do is put the pin into a drill and sand down the top half by about .2mm or so, then wrap it in heat shrink for some extra insulation between the pin and the 510 threads. Anybody have any input on that?

 

[bluesbishop]

Doing a quick Google search, I found that several had the same issue from the Panzer clone purchased from Fast tech... Here is the link: http://www.fasttech.com/forums/1633000/t/1208899/shorting

Sent from my LG G2 on the Sprint Spark Network

 

[catilley1092]

Doing a quick Google search, I found that several had the same issue from the Panzer clone purchased from Fast tech... Here is the link: Shorting!: FastTech Forums

Sent from my LG G2 on the Sprint Spark Network

From the reading of those reviews, it seems that this may be a device to avoid. Thanks for your posting.

Cat

 

[CloudZ]

Now to just fix this shorting issue...

What I think I'm going to do is put the pin into a drill and sand down the top half by about .2mm or so, then wrap it in heat shrink for some extra insulation between the pin and the 510 threads. Anybody have any input on that?

I would not shorten the positive pin, since it should always be adjusted to flush mount anyway. Just put a chamfer on it so it is the same length. A drill and a flat file should work fine. If you don't know what a chamfer is, it just means to cut away the 90 degree corner to make a 45 degree taper from the sides to the top (usually).

 

[Ryuukon]

I would not shorten the positive pin, since it should always be adjusted to flush mount anyway. Just put a chamfer on it so it is the same length. A drill and a flat file should work fine. If you don't know what a chamfer is, it just means to cut away the 90 degree corner to make a 45 degree taper from the sides to the top (usually).

Yeah I'm not going to shorten the pin at all, I'm going to make it more narrow so there is a larger gap between the pin and the threads.

I was hoping to avoid issues like this buying an Infinite clone, not from FT. Think I'll be avoiding this brand from here on out.

 

[bluesbishop]

I was hoping to avoid issues like this buying an Infinite clone, not from FT. Think I'll be avoiding this brand from here on out.

Truth be told, FT nor Infinite are the makers..simply the suppliers. You could get crappy ones from any source. I've seen people happy with several "brands" with a variety of clones. For example, the Nemesis clone by HCigar generally gets great reviews, but I've seen a few bad as well. Vapes 101 and Vape Royalty seem to have the best customer service stateside....and FT has very generous return policy as well as top notch customer service.

Personally... I would return it and not try to repair myself. I wouldn't vape from a unsafe device, and would always have some fear of it venting even if I did get it to work.

Sent from my LG G2 on the Sprint Spark Network

 

[Ryuukon]

Truth be told, FT nor Infinite are the makers..simply the suppliers. You could get crappy ones from any source. I've seen people happy with several "brands" with a variety of clones. For example, the Nemesis clone by HCigar generally gets great reviews, but I've seen a few bad as well. Vapes 101 and Vape Royalty seem to have the best customer service stateside....and FT has very generous return policy as well as top notch customer service.

Personally... I would return it and not try to repair myself. I wouldn't vape from a unsafe device, and would always have some fear of it venting even if I did get it to work.

Sent from my LG G2 on the Sprint Spark Network

If I could return it I would, but I bought it off of Ebay and the seller has a 2 week return policy. I got what I deserved I guess. Suffice to say... screw Ebay.