Double/Triple the Nicotine

[themyst]

I started vaping at 24mg, and couldn't get off the cigs because I wasn't getting enough nic. I got some 30mg juice, and was easily able to quit smoking right away. Any claims that vaping doesn't deliver nicotine are obvious nonsense.

Over the past year, I gradually cut down on the nic level. Recently I had dropped to 6, and now I'm vaping 0mg juice - no nic. And I'm feeling it. It's not bad, nothing like it was when I used to smoke and woudl try to quit, but I definetly feel the craving. Why is that? Because I'm no longer getting the nic.

And when I was vaping 12mg as my norm, I remember once dripping some of the 30mg that I started wtih. I got a nicotine rush, something I hadn't had in ages.

I don't see how anyone with any actual experience vaping can claim that no nicotine is being absorbed.

I've been vaping the "lookalikes" since they initially came out back in 2007-2008, and quickly realized 24mg "high" was never enough. Had to order juice from China back then because none of the American vendors back then (nJoy, etc.) carried 36mg. I got off the e-cigs for a good number of years because they were so damn temperamental back then, I will take the flavor trade-off going with a 36mg any day of the week over an unsatisfying 24mg vape.

Tried the 48mg juice as well, and it was utterly disgusting. 36mg seems to be the sweet spot for me.

 

[DC2]

From another thread...

Last week Andrea Vansickle (who works with Tom Eissenberg at VCU and coauthored his "no nicotine" study last year) gave the following presentation (after my presentation on tobacco harm reduction products and policies) at the Virginia tobacco control conference.
http://www.preventionconnections.org..._Reduction.pdf

Study 1 is their "no nicotine" study published last year, which found that 16/18 mg/ml NJOY and Crown7 e-cigs delivered very little nicotine (less than 2.5 ng/ml) to the plasma of first time e-cig users (i.e. smokers) who took a 10 puff bout of vapor, but satisfied some cravings.

Study 2 (still ongoing) has found that 18 mg/ml VaporKing e-cigs delivered more than 6 ng/ml plasma nicotine to first time e-cig users (i.e. smokers) who took six 10 puff bouts of vapor during a half hour, and satisfied cravings more than in Study 1.

Study 3 (still ongoing) using experienced vapers who vape ad lib (i.e. as much as they want) has found that a 9mg/ml Silver Bullet delivered 10 ng/ml plasma nicotine, that a 18 mg/ml Super T Precise delivered 30 ng/ml plasma nicotine, and that a 24 mg/ml Chuck delivered 40 ng/ml plasma nicotine. This study also found that ad lib vaping satisfied cravings of experienced vapers far more than controlled vaping by first time vapers (i.e. Study 1 and Study 2).

If I'm not mistaken smokers generally test out at around 30-50ng/ml of plasma nicotine.

 

[haiqu]

Regardless of how it is absorbed if the study measures plasma levels it will be measuring the nicotine absorption.

Plasma levels won't show correct absorption unless they're taken hours after the vape. Early studies didn't wait long enough, assuming that the effect was similar to smoking with levels rising minutes after the cigarette. Easy error to make since most of the scientists had been accustomed to testing smokers.

Regardless, much crap science has been done in this area and one should be wary of anyone claiming definitive results.

 

[filter]

right now im vaping 36mg/ml nic + 80mg/ml caffeine. its a lil too strong. 18mg nic + 80mg caff or 24mg nic + 0mg caff is good for me.

 

[kiwivap]

Plasma levels won't show correct absorption unless they're taken hours after the vape. Early studies didn't wait long enough, assuming that the effect was similar to smoking with levels rising minutes after the cigarette. Easy error to make since most of the scientists had been accustomed to testing smokers.

Regardless, much crap science has been done in this area and one should be wary of anyone claiming definitive results.

Sorry, don't agree with this. You'd have to wait hours for the nicotine to pass the BBB to any effective level if that were true. It's not crap science at all, the data is there.

"Mean (SD) plasma nicotine increased from a preadministration level of 2.1 (0.32) ng/mL to a peak of 18.8 (11.8) ng/mL five minutes after the first administration under the own-brand condition."

And that was from the 2010 study.

 

[kiwivap]

Double posted somehow.

 

[haiqu]

Sorry, don't agree with this. You'd have to wait hours for the nicotine to pass the BBB to any effective level if that were true. It's not crap science at all, the data is there.

"Mean (SD) plasma nicotine increased from a preadministration level of 2.1 (0.32) ng/mL to a peak of 18.8 (11.8) ng/mL five minutes after the first administration under the own-brand condition."

That actually proves my point admirably. "Own brand" refers to the cigarette the user normally smoked.

Their result was: "Own brand significantly increased plasma nicotine and CO concentration and heart rate within the first five minutes of administration whereas NPRO EC, Hydro EC, and sham smoking did not." (emphasis added)

They concluded that "Under these acute testing conditions, neither of the electronic cigarettes exposed users to measurable levels of nicotine or CO, although both suppressed nicotine/tobacco abstinence symptom ratings."

Crap science.

This thread gives more details:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html

 

[kiwivap]

That actually proves my point admirably. "Own brand" refers to the cigarette the user normally smoked.


Their result was: "Own brand significantly increased plasma nicotine and CO concentration and heart rate within the first five minutes of administration whereas NPRO EC, Hydro EC, and sham smoking did not." (emphasis added)

They concluded that "Under these acute testing conditions, neither of the electronic cigarettes exposed users to measurable levels of nicotine or CO, although both suppressed nicotine/tobacco abstinence symptom ratings."

Crap science.

My point was how quickly the nicotine is going to be getting to the serotonin pathway. Yes, that's from cigarettes. But we don't wait hours for ecigs to give us a hit, and we know when we aren't getting a nic hit. It's not crap science at all. It was the earlier pv devices that weren't delivering. What would you use other than liquid chromatography in tandem with mass spec to obtain the data?
See the later study for more on how ecigs do deliver nicotine, and the correlation between effective delivery and type of device.

 

[catoliver]

This ex-smoker here doesn't need ANY studies to confirm what my body knows and how it reacts when I've had too much nicotine or not enough nicotine.

I already know.

 

[filter]

i think cigs deliver more nicotine more quickly. with a cig you can get about twice as much nic as you need in 5 minutes. i think vaping a 24mg ecig, you need about 15mins to get as much nic as you need. so basically 3x as long for half as much. so cigs deliver 6x what vaping does, comparing say a marlboro medium cig to a 24mg ecig.