"Dumb" PCC's?

[susan28]

so i just got the long-awaited 410-compatible PCC and am having a bit of a glitch with it: it completely discharges itself if i leave a battery on the charger after it's full. i fell asleep last night while testing it, and after i'd charged 2 batts with it, left the 3rd in til morning to find that batt charged but the box totally dead. not even the red "box dead" light, hehe - we're talking doornail here.

i'd think that after the batt was charged it would cease to be able to draw anymore from the box, but it seems to have. i also don't think the 3rd batt drained it just from charging. the "output" of the PCC says 150mA (not mAH), so that couldn't be the total it holds (not sure what it means, maybe total charge per batt). it's supposed to charge 5 batts.

so i think it has something to do with maybe needing to unscrew the charged batt a bit to deactivate the charger once a batt is charged or it will drain the box?

is this why the new m702 ones are called "smart" PCC's? because they don't do this maybe? are the old ones (without the meter on front) "Dumb" PCC's? if so, that's not too convenient since you'd have to constantly check on charging batts to make sure they're not charged and draining the box.

any insights from the techies here?

 

[Can_supplier]

First the PCC shouldn't be completely dead. It should be "protected" so when it reaches under 2.2ish Volts, the protection circut shuts it down.

What you did was use up all the juice in the PCC so it shut down.

The PV batty didn't cause this to happen after it was charged, as it would not acept any more power at that point. For power to be wasted, it would have to produce heat, and melt the thing down. Power just doesn't disappear to a charged batt (remeber newtons law that energy cannot be created or distroyed)

 

[Wench]

I know I had a 510 pcc that would drain it's charge if I left a batt in it. It's actually a common problem with those. The "smart" m702 hasn't done that to me yet.
The new 401 I'm not sure about as I don't have one yet but sounds like it may have the same issue. You just have to make sure to pop the batt out when done.

 

[susan28]

First the PCC shouldn't be completely dead. It should be "protected" so when it reaches under 2.2ish Volts, the protection circut shuts it down.

What you did was use up all the juice in the PCC so it shut down.

The PV batty didn't cause this to happen after it was charged, as it would not acept any more power at that point. For power to be wasted, it would have to produce heat, and melt the thing down. Power just doesn't disappear to a charged batt (remeber newtons law that energy cannot be created or distroyed)

right that's what i figured, and wondered where it went. thought maybe a short somewhere or something. i guess it's only good for a few charges of the full-size 401 batt, maybe it gets the claimed 5 with 402 batts.

what threw me is i expected to see the red light come on when it got down to bare-minimum, but there was no light at all, just dead. i guess the red/green box-charge indicators only function when it's on the charger so you know when it's done. which saves some juice, so i guess that's a goodness.

i charged the box this morning and just for certainty i'm gonna leave the batt that's now charging in for 8 hrs or so to see what happens. then i'll try charging one after another and see what this baby can do.

 

[susan28]

I know I had a 510 pcc that would drain it's charge if I left a batt in it. It's actually a common problem with those. The "smart" m702 hasn't done that to me yet.
The new 401 I'm not sure about as I don't have one yet but sounds like it may have the same issue. You just have to make sure to pop the batt out when done.

i wonder how the one that comes with Modern Vapor's Sidesho does. that's an improved 401, so maybe the pcc's improved too. but it's not advertised as "smart" and doesn't have the meter or charge button on it, so it's probably the old design (the 401 pcc is actually "new", but seems to be an adapted version of the ones that come w/other models.

how's that 702 working out for ya? it's a cartomiser right? any problems refilling? do the attys last as long as "non disposable" ones?

 

[ryanSTi]

Are you talking about the one marked 808E-PACK? I have this one also and normally leave the battery screwed in also. I noticed that I was able to charge 3 batteries with it, the short ones mind you, before it wouldn't charge the PV battery. After the PCC is done charging the PV battery the lower light for the PV battery goes on and off, sometimes for a half of a second, sometimes a couple seconds. Any idea why or if I should take the battery out? It's really annoying when it's loose and rattles...

 

[Wench]

i wonder how the one that comes with Modern Vapor's Sidesho does. that's an improved 401, so maybe the pcc's improved too. but it's not advertised as "smart" and doesn't have the meter or charge button on it, so it's probably the old design (the 401 pcc is actually "new", but seems to be an adapted version of the ones that come w/other models.

how's that 702 working out for ya? it's a cartomiser right? any problems refilling? do the attys last as long as "non disposable" ones?

The 702 isn't a cartomizer. It's just like the M403's except the threads are reversed (m401 female atty where as the m702's are male)
They're pretty decent, very similar to the m4XX model. Takes the same cart's as well so I can interchange them.

 

[Charlie58]

I have one of what I believe is one of the first J118 PCs and it has the same problem.
If I leave the PCC plugged in all night with a battery in it it is ok.
But if I forget and leave a battery screwed in while it is off of wall power it drains the battery unless I unscrew it untill it doesn't make contact.
I believe it occasionaly runs a charge cycle for a few seconds every minute to test the charge on the battery. this cuts down on the charge time left for the discharged battery when I swap them out. Ie 2-3 recharges as opposed to 4. Also i dont believe they engineered the charging circuit for the ecig batery to be only one way as I have read of them draining the charger and then draining the ecig batery until neither had a usable charge left.

 

[susan28]

ryan: no, mine's marked model# VOGUE-pcc401.

Charlie: yea, Modern Vapor's "902" is a J118, and i believe their "Sidesho" is a J108. same generation, probably same pcc except for the plumbing.

how do you like the J118 as a PV, pcc notwithstanding? any noticeble diff from a 901?

 

[Can_supplier]

What might be interesting to try is, take a fully charged PCC, and a fully charged (both on different sources), and leave the batt in the PCC over night and see what happens. That will solve the question.

I think what is happening is a batty goes in the PCC and charges, once it charges the PCC is left with say 5% power left. When the batts are on a charger they do seem to cycle on and off even after betting fully charged. That 5% left in the PCC might very well get used up over night by the cycling, but I can't see a full PCC charge worth, without it melting down from emiting the energy.

 

[susan28]

agreed, though this one batt-charge shouldn't deplete it that much. it's been in about 6 hrs now, and i'll give it til midnight and see what happens. definitely something they need to iron out, though, either way. i'd happily pay more to ditch the glitch if it came down to that. make it right and charge what ya need to (no pun intended).

 

[susan28]

OKAY, here's what happened, for those following it:

the batt i inserted after charging the box yesterday morning was charged in a couple hours, and i left it in til this morning. the box was still alive. so i inserted another dead one, and it charged for a few minutes then the box died. i wish i'd have left the original batt in a bit longer, but i think the evidence is sufficient that leaving a charged batt on the charger will eventually deplete the box, and any additional time after charging is complete will take away from the juice left for other batts, and that if left on long enough, will eventually deplete the box.

bummer. but i can see a CLEAR opportunity here for a motivated pcc designer/modder to corner the market with a line of pcc's that don't do this, and i hope someone will take up the challenge. it couldn't be that hard and i'd pay dearly for one.

i think part of the thing with the Chinese is that they're very cost-focused and operate on the assumption that people will usually choose cheaper over better, which sadly seems to be the case, even before the depression hit. ya get what ya pay for. this was only 25 bucks. i'd rather have paid 50 for a unit i didn't have to baby-sit. that defeats the purpose, as it's easier just to charge a buncha batts and bring 'em with you than have another child to mind!

at this point i'd say it's a cool gimmick / fashion statement, but not a true convenience.

my tack when i choose to use the box will be to charge 2 batts and leave one unscrewed in the charger slot to add at one more battery cycle to the day/night's power availability, which should give me a total of 5 batt cycles, 2 to start with and 3 charges. that should be sufficient til the box can be recharged, especially with the 401, but i feel sorry for those 510 folks!

 

[Can_supplier]

Wow I never suspected that... As I said before the power has to go somewhere, and that's a scary thought...

One more thing to try Susan, if you are up for it...

Is by any chance the PCC fried now, and I wouldn't be able to charge that dead batt even if the PCC came fresh off the charger? Or has the performance dropped substantially since new? (i.e. could charge 3 before can barely charge 1 now)

What I am wondering if in one of these running the PCC to dead cycles, it has permanently damaged the PCC batt?

 

[susan28]

Wow I never suspected that... As I said before the power has to go somewhere, and that's a scary thought...

One more thing to try Susan, if you are up for it...

Is by any chance the PCC fried now, and I wouldn't be able to charge that dead batt even if the PCC came fresh off the charger? Or has the performance dropped substantially since new? (i.e. could charge 3 before can barely charge 1 now)

What I am wondering if in one of these running the PCC to dead cycles, it has permanently damaged the PCC batt?

oh i'm up for it, PCC's are like my Holy Grail, i'm determined to have one that fulfills the promise! next step is badgering the modders to do something to rectify this!

anyway, the box is on the charger now, and i'm gonna see how many fully-dead batts it will charge today.

i might even consider buying another one if the results are disappointing, just to compare to see if a fresh, un-abused one works better. then i'd have 2 boxes to take me the distance, just don't start the second one til the first one's dead otherwise i'd have *two* to babysit. not something you wanna have to think about while partying.

i don't see any melting anywhere, though.

 

[tribalmasters]

The ultimate PCC exsts but it is big and involves a wire and a Janty Stick/Passthrough - the USB battery pack!! Charge it from any USB port and then attach a USB device for portable power.

I have the Kensington, it has a capacity of 2000mah for almost 2 days of heavy vaping! You can attach a passthrough and vape direct or even use it to charge up your USB equipped PV such as Janty Stick or the PCC!

Its not ideal as its another box and wire to carry but very good for a weekend away

 

[susan28]

you could just leave the pcc plugged to the charger when it's in your purse or put away, and unplug it when you need to fetch something from it. not as good for guys who want to put the pcc in their pocket, but plenty purse-friendly.

 

[susan28]

OK, here's the update:

i charged up the box, charged 2 401 batts then left the box sitting empty overnight, and when i inserted the 3rd batt the next morning it only charged it part way before the box died. i got about an hour out of the partially-charged batt (i usually kill a 401 in about 3hrs with heavy vaping).

i then charged it up again and charged 3 401's in quick succession with no delay in removing them, and the 3rd one still killed the box with about the same amount of charge on it.

CONCLUSIONS:

A) leaving batts on this charger after charging will continue to drain the box.
B) leaving the box sit empty for long periods will not drain it at all.
C) the real charging capacity of the VOGUE PCC is approximately 2.5 401 batts.

i spoke to Shawn at Litecigusa (my usual source), and he said that the 401 PCC's he's expecting in soon are not these, but in his words, "Genuine Smoore" product, which may be superior and may or may not also be the new "smart" PCC, which he claims don't have this problem.

ADDENDUM:

i tried inserting a fully-assembled 403 into the spare-batt slot but no go. however, if you trim a mouthpiece to just long enough to clear the atty bridge you'll have a compact, positive-hitting drip-only unit that will fit assembled into the PCC.

this concludes our investigation.

 

[Charlie58]

I have no experience with the 901 but in comparison to my 510 the J118 gives a better overall vaping experience for me.
When I use it at work it gives me around 3 times the battry life of my 510 when taking 10-15 drags off of it every 20 min or so.
The flavors of my juices tend to come out more with the J118. The 510 seems to have more vapor but the J118 is also a good vapor producer when the atty is broken in, to me it is not very far behind the 510 in that reguard.
Throat hit is adequate in the reguard that it satisfies the urge for a smoke and is more of a fullness of vapor and taste than the general harsh vapor of my 510.
With moderate vaping as long as you don't chain vape it it drains the cart down to just a little left at the bottom of the filler with the stock filler and no cart modification. If you chain vape it drawing on constantly for a good number of hits it is possible to out run the wicking ability of the cart but you would be doing the equivilant of hot boxing an analog.
So my overall comparison is that it has a better battery life,longer cart life,more efficient use of juice. More flavor. And comparable vapor with more taste than my 510.
I hope this helps you since I don't have any experience with the901.

 

[susan28]

yes very helpful indeed, C58. i've noticed that Modern Vapour is only selling J118 ("902") parts now, dunno if he's abandoned the kits or not (he makes no bones about being a die-hard 401 fan, and prefers the Sidesho model for style/ergonomic reasons, though i think the 902 is sexy as well), but he still has the cool-logo'd PCC's for them. no meter on front so probably not "smart". one of these days i'll have to contact them and ask point blank if their chargers deplete if left charging unattended.

ok, another update, this from Kevin at SharpSmoker (from whom i purchased this PCC), copied below with his permission:

Ok, so with the the 401/402 PCC, you do have to unscrew the battery a little once it is done charging. I confirmed this with my manufacturing rep and also with my own test. I got the same result you did. I fully charged the PCC and then just put a battery on there and left it. After an amount of time, the PCC battery died.

However, it seems the "smart" PCC may just be smart after all. I put that battery on there probably about 72 hours ago and left it in there. It is fully charged now (of course) and the status indicator for the PCC battery also still shows a fully charged battery. So it seems that it did turn itself off and does not discharge like the other PCC's out there. Good news is, Smoore (manufacturer of the 401/402) will eventually be making a Smart PCC for the 402/401. When exactly it will be ready, I am not sure?

 

[Charlie58]

This vendor is still selling the J118 kits etc. Smokeless Cigarettes | Electronic Smoking Device | Electronic Cigarette - E Cigarette Cartridges | Cigarette USB Charger | E Cigar Battery | ELiquid
I haven't done any business with them so I can't vouch for them.
Their kits don't seem to be a bad price but Shawn at liecig has better prices on parts.