E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

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lolady

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...Have you ever figured maybe I'm envious of you all-man it would of been sweet if my cardio dr. would of said well smoking caused this so yeah you should quit but here's an OUT...

Well, I'll give you props twice - once for quitting cold turkey (I tried Wellbrutin, and felt nothing, so from my perspective, it still counts as cold turkey) and again for being honest enough to say that.

I agree with you. It would have been sweet, it's a tremendous blessing of an out, and one I wish you'd had, so that you could have been spared the suffering you went through.

Like Chief (who is secretly very cuddly, but you didn't hear it from me) says, this is a MAJOR breakthrough, it makes it possible for millions of people to quit who haven't been able to, and for millions more to cut down.

I'm not sure there's really an unbridgeable gap here - you're human, of course you wish you would have had that blessing, at the same time, I doubt that in your heart, you really begrudge any of us the longer life, better health, extra time with loved ones - and of course, my favorite - being kept more comfortable! :)

Now excuse me if this question is inappropriate, I am a wacky old lady, after all, we have a long and proud history of inappropriateness, standards to maintain, etc.

Plus, you were honest, and I think we've established (well, I have established) that we're all on the same team, so allow me to return candor for candor and present the elephant in the room: have you asked your cardiologist if it would hurt you to notsmoke 0 nicotine e-cigarettes now?

One of the most beneficial things I'm seeing from the Good Deed Operative Posse is that just from sort of skimming here and there on the Original Recipe Other Board, is more people being aware that the things come in 0 nicotine.

A lot of people there have some strong beliefs about nicotine specifically, so I'm glad to see them getting information about another option they have for phasing it out.

And I'm rambling, so I'll shut up, but I am just so glad you said that - it's nothing like the same thing, I'm NOT comparing the two, just saying there are similar feelings and discussions sometimes among different generations of diabetics - things like the pen, and the pump, even testing (to get our glucose reading, we had to walk twenty miles barefoot in the snow five times a day before dawn, cut off one of our fingers with a sharp rock, then sit down and do math for seven hours in the broiling sun)
 

nitejanitor

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Well thats the scary part-without you guys I would never had considered it but what also gets to me is that it makes me doubt my own ability to stay quit. As for asking my cardio I don't see him till next yr but I see like a "regular" dr next month & I had thought of asking him if thats an option but I'm afraid besides the heart attack I also have 3 stents so I may be screwed no matter what-but that was so nice of you to ask that I'm sure some thought about it tho.And why would any of you think I'd wish cancer or a heart attack or some other crappy thing happening just because we don't agree on quit methods I may be a bit** at times but thats just too much. I'll just try & realize when I'm in a less then nice mood then stay offline-thats usually when I get into trouble like I'm now am on the british board & that bites cause thiose guys have done nothing but be helpful & decent to me.
 

LibertariaNate

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I had a GF a long time ago that suffered from type I diabetes. The things I watched her endure, mostly her own fault. Her father thought it would be a good idea if I learned how to take her glucose reading, measure insulin, and inject her, it probably was, but it makes me shudder just thinking about it. I don't mind blood, I just don't like sticking needles into people. It drove me crazy that she wouldn't take care of herself fully knowing the consequences. After the third trip to the hospital for ketoacidosis in 10 months, I couldn't take it any longer...
 
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cigarbabe

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Well thats the scary part-without you guys I would never had considered it but what also gets to me is that it makes me doubt my own ability to stay quit. As for asking my cardio I don't see him till next yr but I see like a "regular" dr next month & I had thought of asking him if thats an option but I'm afraid besides the heart attack I also have 3 stents so I may be screwed no matter what-but that was so nice of you to ask that I'm sure some thought about it tho.And why would any of you think I'd wish cancer or a heart attack or some other crappy thing happening just because we don't agree on quit methods I may be a bit** at times but thats just too much. I'll just try & realize when I'm in a less then nice mood then stay offline-thats usually when I get into trouble like I'm now am on the british board & that bites cause thiose guys have done nothing but be helpful & decent to me.

Then let me ask you why you aren't willing to extend that same courtesy to all of us all of the time.
I'm not asking you to change your opinion of pv's I am asking you to treat everyone with courtesy and respect regardless of their method of quit.
Please. :closedeyes:
C.B.
:evil:
 

nitejanitor

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Sometimes I wonder why do I try-YES I realize theirs times I need to just walk away cause it sure beats coming back & trying to make things right cause some just figure I'm a lost cause. Well I did say I'd back off on the british board but I guess you missed that. I'll try & be more walking on eggshell in future posts.
 

cigarbabe

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Can we drop it guys... Beth said she's sorry... please?

I apparently missed that post Randyrtx.
Randy this isn't a fight either so what is there to drop really?
I'm not being nasty towards her but I did want to post my view.
I had my say and that is done.
Beth I'm not asking you to walk on eggshells or leave any site.
I'm only asking you to consider others feelings when you post.
:)
C.B.
:evil:
 

MagnusEunson

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Hrmm.

Make no mistake about it, the Q-board skirmish became about winning.. you don't hear people going "Who came out of the debate in agreement?" because that's was not the goal. Everything about what ECF members were trying to accomplish came down to winning the debate. In this situation to "help" people no longer became a passive activity of waiting for the masses to come to ~us~... it became a proselytizing activity. That's further proved by the increasingly hard and absolutest language the ECF community has adopted. How often have we seen some reference to curing cancer? Or an attribution of safety to e-cigs that is not remotely close to earned (but well theorized).

It had every dynamic of a dialog on religion and salvation. Thus, for a majority of people, it became unthinkable to back down from their position because to do so would have shattered a foundation of absolute beliefs that contribute to who they are. There were at least three/four dozen posts on the ECF side of the fence about Addicts and Twelve-step programs precisely to try to help people related to this.

And if your stated goal is to help as many people as possible reduce the harm of their addiction then WINNING the debate should be the goal. To win a debate you have to establish the metrics by which victory has been achieved and then you have to decide the fronts/fields of discussion. My own position is that the metrics should be phrased in risk management terms. NOT absolute terms because 1) those lend themselves to being blown up and 2) we should've be naive enough to assume we have absolute solutions.

So I'll throw out two metrics that I think all ECF members would agree upon are the MINIMAL "position" points of ECFers:

1) Electronic cigarettes provide a substantially safer alternative to traditional analog cigarettes.

2) Existing smoking cessation programs and NRTs have a very high rate of failure and relapse.

And a third I'm not sure everybody at ECF even agrees on but I think is only sensible if you're moving outward-and-beyond our walls to educate people.

3) Electronic cigarettes provide the most flexible and engaging smoking cessation solution available to date.

Now... a brief step back to why I think the absolute terms like "cure" and "safe" should not be used. Because any one incident demonstrating otherwise immediately blows up the credibility of the messenger. The diacetyl example or lead components come to mind.

OK... so now to establish the fronts/fields where this debate should take place? I think John, Kristen, Randy, Shannon, and others have been clear it should take place EVERYWHERE. I personally think that is a mistake but don't want to devolve this post into a tactical discussion.

Given those metrics and fronts/fields how can you look at the Q-boards skirmish as anything other than the prequel to the debate? Think about that for a moment.... you think that was ugly at times? You've got major Western countries banning components of e-cig solutions. You've got Big Tobacco and Big Pharma looking at another slice of their pie under attack. You've got Legislators looking at lost tax revenue. You've got academics whose funding depends on smoking cessation who now have only nicotine to fight instead of hundreds of probable bad agents.

Personally I think the only way to lose this debate in the long run is by fighting on the wrong fronts using the wrong tactics. And I think, in that light, looking at how you would have handled the Q-board differently before moving on to other greener pastures would be a worthwhile endeavor. Look at what is happening right now... we have fairly innocuous descent and instead of trying to take the opportunity to refine the debate we've suddenly started sounding like Q-board people protective of their own property. Just like Fred's closure note said..... 'you've got ~your~ corner of the Internet over at ECF for ~casual~ discussions'......

Invite and embrace the descent as an opportunity to refine the message. You've got yet another data point by a live human being willing to discuss what they went through. You think with the few hundred millions smokers out there today you won't see this same story again? Maybe a few hundred thousand more times? They're grumpy, they have bad memories, maybe their tact is a bit off. That's all OK, we've all been there.

(QUICK! Somebody kick the soap box out from under me!)

To close this*THUNK THUD*

OK OK...... that's enough food for thought from me. -Magnus
 
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ShannonA

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Well thats the scary part-without you guys I would never had considered it but what also gets to me is that it makes me doubt my own ability to stay quit. As for asking my cardio I don't see him till next yr but I see like a "regular" dr next month & I had thought of asking him if thats an option but I'm afraid besides the heart attack I also have 3 stents so I may be screwed no matter what-but that was so nice of you to ask that I'm sure some thought about it tho.And why would any of you think I'd wish cancer or a heart attack or some other crappy thing happening just because we don't agree on quit methods I may be a bit** at times but thats just too much. I'll just try & realize when I'm in a less then nice mood then stay offline-thats usually when I get into trouble like I'm now am on the british board & that bites cause thiose guys have done nothing but be helpful & decent to me.

Well Beth of course its best if you just stay quit but if you couldn't I whole heartedly believe better these with zero nicotine than a cigarette and I don't give a rats behind who gets mad at me for saying that.
 

nitejanitor

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Well Beth of course its best if you just stay quit but if you couldn't I whole heartedly believe better these with zero nicotine than a cigarette and I don't give a rats behind who gets mad at me for saying that.

thats one thing I've considered I figure should I decide I've had enough I would be tempted to try your thing rather then marboros.
 

lolady

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May 8, 2011
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Shannon, I confess this is something that has me just baffled.

I've not been able to follow the arguments of people who are strongly opposed to nicotine, so naturally they are strongly opposed to the use of something that contains no nicotine.

Wasn't that the plot of a Kafka novel? Or a Monty Python skit?

OK. Internet. Off. NOW! :D
 

MadmanMacguyver

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thats one thing I've considered I figure should I decide I've had enough I would be tempted to try your thing rather then marboros.
...plz do in that case...(heaven forbid)...those things kill and Taste and smell nasty...

---Did I just say that OMG I cant believe I just said that....

(insert heavy mechanical breathing) The cycle is now complete When I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the master.....:lol:
 
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hobotivo

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I'm sorry I'm not joinging that other site as long as brad is trolling there its bad enough putting up with him on one forum. I can't deal with his idocy on two different fronts.

Yes I said idiocy unlike Beth I find no redeeming qualities in Brad he likes to start stuff pure and simple.

Brad thinks we hate him. I don't.
I just despise him.
Cheers
 
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