E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

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LibertariaNate

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Regulation and taxation is coming. That's a certainty. The real question is will they implement a framework to let existing business survive legitimately or force it completely into the hobbyist supported realm. -Magnus

No doubt. Less smokers = less taxes = need to find ways to recoup that money...

Never mind that would also mean less need for smoking cessation programs, decreased medical costs, etc...

I read an interesting article about how the government is now looking into ways to recoup the lost taxes from hybrid and electric cars. Since they use less fuel, owners pay less Federal and State taxes on fuel. It's not exactly the same principle because cigs are a "sin tax", fuel is a "use tax", but you get the point...
 
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MustangSallie

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LibertariaNate

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Nate, we are using it without approval. Is it too much for me to expect that anyone can come to the same conclusion that we have? OK, we have proof that there are plenty of people who will go against it based on FDA action. Maybe it's just survival of the fittest? I'll tell as many people about the miracle as I can. It's up to them if they want to listen. I'm nobody's momma.

And Magnus, if they tax a bottle of e-liquid like I'm buying a pack of cigarettes for 10 bucks in some cities, then I'll just have to start mixing my own for sure. They can't tax the raw materials, and by then I'll probably be off of nicotine all together.

Michael

Yes, we are, but I think we are in the minority.

I'll be damned if I ever take what the FDA says at face value. I'll do my own research and I know many people here do as well, but again, I think we are in the minority. Most people can't or won't be bothered to find out for themselves and will take the FDA at their word. I think it's sad, but like you said, maybe it's just survival of the fittest. I don't care if somebody wants to use cigs for the rest of their life. That's their business. If someone sees me vaping out in public and asks what I'm doing, I'm more than happy to tell them about PVs, but I can't make the decision that it's right for them. They have to do that for their self.
 

John Phoenix

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I read an interesting article about how the government is now looking into ways to recoup the lost taxes from hybrid and electric cars. Since they use less fuel, owners pay less Federal and State taxes on fuel. It's not exactly the same principle because cigs are a "sin tax", fuel is a "use tax", but you get the point...

Funny you should mention this.. I was just reading This - I used to think we had cigarette taxes because they harm people but that's just something someone made up. Truth is we have a tobacco tax in one form or another for over 200 years :Cigarette taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although cigarettes were not popular in the United States until the mid-19th century, the federal government still attempted to implement a tax on tobacco products such as snuff early on in its history. In 1794, secretary of the treasury Alexander Hamilton introduced the first ever, federal excise tax on tobacco products. Hamilton’s original proposal passed after major modifications, only to be repealed shortly thereafter with an insignificant effect on the federal budget.[1] Even though Hamilton’s tax on tobacco failed, tobacco taxation continued to play an important role in American history.

On July 1, 1862, the United States Congress passed excise taxes on many items including tobacco. This occurred as a result of the Union army’s increasing debt during the American Civil War and the Federal government’s need for additional revenue. After the war, many of these excise taxes were repealed but the tax on tobacco remained. In fact, by 1868 the Government’s main source of income came from these lingering tobacco taxes.[2]

Despite the excise tax of the Federal government, states did not ratify a tobacco excise tax until well into the 20th century. In 1921, Iowa became the first state to pass a tobacco excise tax at the state level in addition to the federal tax.[3] Other states quickly followed suit, and by 1950, 40 states and Washington D.C. enacted taxes on cigarette sales.[4]

Since at least 2005, all U.S. states, the District of Columbia and the territories have cigarette taxes. In addition, several cities such as San Francisco and New York City have implemented their own citywide cigarette tax. New York City has a citywide tax of $1.50, making the combined state and local rate $5.85, the highest in the nation. Missouri's rate is the lowest, at 17 cents.
[edit] Under the Obama Administration

On February 4, 2009, the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 was signed into law, which raised the federal tax rate for cigarettes on April 1, 2009 from $0.39 per pack to $1.01 per pack.[5][6] The purpose of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) is to provide aid for impoverished children. With the increased revenue from tobacco taxes SCHIP can now afford to include families with up to three times the federal poverty level as well as children from high-income families in New York and New Jersey. SCHIP will also be able to cover dental benefits and treatment of mental illnesses where it previously could not. In addition to providing these services for U.S. citizens, SCHIP is also expanded to cover immigrant children and immigrant pregnant women.[7]
 

MagnusEunson

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Dude.. we have taxes on anything that is a must or addictive because they know we'll pay them. ;-)

The "child tax credit" is the Government's way of trying to make you think that they DON'T tax you for having children. They just withhold the tax and give it back to you later. Tax on sperm and eggs! Yay Government! ;-) -Magnus
 

LibertariaNate

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That's not surprising. Find something popular, tax it, rake in the money. The wiki article didn't really mention how tax hikes affect the smoking rate, just that it is "highly elastic". I don't doubt the government takes it's time to determine a tax amount that would bring in significantly more money, despite people quitting. An "acceptable casualties" rate, if you will.

I don't have children so I'm not well informed on SCHIP, but why the flip are "children from high-income families in New York and New Jersey" covered?
 

LibertariaNate

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Dude.. we have taxes on anything that is a must or addictive because they know we'll pay them. ;-)

The "child tax credit" is the Government's way of trying to make you think that they DON'T tax you for having children. They just withhold the tax and give it back to you later. Tax on sperm and eggs! Yay Government! ;-) -Magnus

Hell Magnus, they tax you whether or NOT you have children... Tax on unused sperm and eggs...
 

DC2

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OK, how is this:
I really like a lot of changes that you made.
But there are a couple of things left out that I want to work back in.

I'll work on doing some "merging" tomorrow and repost.
There is no rush on this, our method of choice has been absent forever.

Another day or two or six won't make any real difference.
Better to get it right.
:)
 

mgordon1100

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Stephanie Said: said:
So..........I am all for letting someone work their own program. And if you feel very passionate about ecigs, know that it is OK for some to feel very passionate about abstinence and that it is important for some of us. I find it unfair to say that ecigs are good for everyone, for me, they would be deadly. I am not everyone. And as I have said a bunch of times, I think they should be used approved as a quit aid and remain legal.

Is this progress? I wish I could like a post once in a while.

Now, how do I delete this post from the wrong thread?
 

John Phoenix

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Off off off topic. OMG !!! Devils Run When a Good Man Goes to War. They just cant make these things any better.. I just finished it. Whoa.. River !!!!


Dude.. we have taxes on anything that is a must or addictive because they know we'll pay them. ;-)

The "child tax credit" is the Government's way of trying to make you think that they DON'T tax you for having children. They just withhold the tax and give it back to you later. Tax on sperm and eggs! Yay Government! ;-) -Magnus
 

mgordon1100

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Off off off topic. OMG !!! Devils Run When a Good Man Goes to War. They just cant make these things any better.. I just finished it. Whoa.. River !!!!

OMG! Tell me it wasn't the slightest bit of creeper when the Doctor got excited about finding out his relationship with River, AFTER finding out who she is? Go on, I dare you.
 

John Phoenix

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OMG! Tell me it wasn't the slightest bit of creeper when the Doctor got excited about finding out his relationship with River, AFTER finding out who she is? Go on, I dare you.

LOL yeah.. perhaps there's a lil bit of a perv in the ol boy


Edit; I LOVE The Dr, and have since the late 70's. For the last 4 years I have downloaded every episode the day it aired. I cannot get enough. I have actually joined online virtual worlds and built tardis's and flown them from simulator node to simulator node. I have built K-9, sonic screwdrivers and a few other things I sell in these virtual worlds. I am a Dr Freak. I want Amy Pond. Hubba Hubba.
 
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John Phoenix

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What happened to all the one post people from my long thread? I decided to re-read my How I quit thread and I notice there are many people who posted in defense of e-cigs that are not part of our group that only have one post. I find this very odd.

Another interesting thing is seeing who posted what and how some of those people have started to change their tune.
 

mgordon1100

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I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't care who tries what. I just want to see that anyone who is a proponent of quitting smoking to understand that not everyone can quit the same way. Hey, there are people who try crack once, and are forever hooked, then others will give it a go and don't get the big deal. They walk away from it. Point being, we are all made differently. Whatever it is that's in the e-liquid, doesn't affect me the same way as whatever it is that's in the cigarettes. Either nicotine by itself doesn't have that much control, or the nicotine isn't in the same abundance as it is in cigarettes. I've got my own proof that I'm not a slave to it. People need to just trust someone when they make statements like this.
 
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