E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

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MagnusEunson

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Totally OT (is there even a topic?) Speaking of the government... You guys should watch the news tomorrow, I may be on it :) !2:00 EST - Washington DC, Jefferson Memorial, Dance Party ;-)

I mentioned that (you) in the OUTSIDE! on the thread discussing it. Enjoy and best wishes! -Magnus
 

Randyrtx

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I don't like to post quotes from the other board, but I think this one warrants it (feel free to post it over there if you wish):

From Steph:
And am I addicted to Caffeine......my answer is yes!
Do I care today....my answer is NO.

Stephanie, if you see this, that is exactly how many of us feel about nicotine. We've read the research, we've talked about it ad naeseum at times, and many of us have reached the conclusion (and that includes a great many health professionals and doctors) that it simply isn't all that harmful.

Now, if it weren't for e-cigs, I'd be singing a different tune. If cigarettes or quit were my only choices, I'd be trying, yet again, to quit (and likely fail, yet again.) Eliminating smoking, not nicotine, is my top priority.

I take sleeping meds to help me sleep... am I addicted to them? No, but I wouldn't sleep well without them, so I am dependant on them.

I take anti-depressants... am I addicted to them? No, but my quality of life would suffer without them, so I am dependant on them.

I take anti-anxiety meds... am I addicted? No, but I damn sure need them when an anxiety attack hits, so I am at least partially dependant on them.

I take meds to manage my cholesterol and other little bodily functions that us older guys have to worry about... am I addicted to them? No, but my long term health and comfort would suffer, so I am dependant on them as well.

Now for the tough one... I use nicotine to remain smoke-free... am I addicted? I think the jury is still out on that one, since new research suggests that nicotine alone isn't particularly addictive. Like all the other drugs in my life, I believe I am dependant on nicotine. But what I know, with absolute certainty, that as long as I am using nicotine with an electronic cigarette, I will not be smoking!

For what it's worth, I use what would be considered a rather low dosage of nicotine. Will I reduce it to zero? Perhaps, but it isn't a priority. Would you switch entirely to decaf?
 

UntamedRose

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Could someone read this post\study and prove\disprove my interpretation? I would appreciate some input but I may be wrong....they are trying to prove a negative:

QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com • View topic - Nicotine could Accelerate Atherosclerosis

The problem is the meaning of words....to them Nic is smoking...to us there is Nic and then there is smoking.
To them anything bad about smoking ='s bad about Nic.
To us bad about smoking ='s bad about smoking. Maybe Not just the Nic.

It's a different mind set and a difficult one to break, on that has been reenforced though media and many scientific studies(older ones of course) plus in many ways...this mind set has been part of their support structure for quitting. "Evil evil Nic AGHHHH!"
 

Randyrtx

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Randy, what level did you start at? And how fast did you lower you levels down?

The first juice I ever bought was likely around 18mg. I found it to be way to strong, so much so that I had to relapse to smoking a bit off and on until I could get replacement juice. I worked it down to about 12mg within a 2 month period, and was able to completely stop smoking at that point. I still found it to be too strong, so I lowered it to 8mg over the next few weeks. I've been at that level for the last 18 months.
 

UntamedRose

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...
I take anti-depressants... am I addicted to them? No, but my quality of life would suffer without them, so I am dependant on them.

I take anti-anxiety meds... am I addicted? No, but I damn sure need them when an anxiety attack hits, so I am at least partially dependant on them.

....
Now for the tough one... I use nicotine to remain smoke-free... am I addicted? I think the jury is still out on that one, since new research suggests that nicotine alone isn't particularly addictive. Like all the other drugs in my life, I believe I am dependant on nicotine. But what I know, with absolute certainty, that as long as I am using nicotine with an electronic cigarette, I will not be smoking!

For what it's worth, I use what would be considered a rather low dosage of nicotine. Will I reduce it to zero? Perhaps, but it isn't a priority. Would you switch entirely to decaf?

Actually in your case, Quitting Nic Might not be such a good idea. Strongly suggest speaking with your Doc about it first.
Nic is an anti-depressant and anti-anxiety, so quitting completely is very likely to change up your brain chemistry, with you already on anti-depressants ect... possibly not for the better.
Some changes to your medication might be needed.
Research it...talk to doc..I'm just some crazy lady online dont listen to me :p
 

Randyrtx

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Randyrtx

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Actually in your case, Quitting Nic Might not be such a good idea. Strongly suggest speaking with your Doc about it first.
Nic is an anti-depressant and anti-anxiety, so quitting completely is very likely to change up your brain chemistry, with you already on anti-depressants ect... possibly not for the better.
Some changes to your medication might be needed.
Research it...talk to doc..I'm just some crazy lady online dont listen to me :p

Funny you should say that... my depression and anxiety began to manifest itself when I was quitting smoking. I've talked to my doctor, but he doesn't seem to be well versed in all the complex effects that long-term smoking has on the brain. I'm beginning to research it on my own to come up with a solution that works for me. I know there's already some good stuff around the forums that I can draw from :)

I love your avatar... it's from Cocoon, isn't it?
 
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Edwv30

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Here is my thoughts...

Those folks will never "get it." They know their addictions for what they are..."addictions." They blame nicotine...we know otherwise. There are multiple chemicals involved, (e.g. 4000+). in cigarettes and nicotine is the least of our worries. I am done over there. I wish them the best.....
 

MustangSallie

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Hey Everybody!

Sorry, yesterday was a very sad day for me. One of my oldest cats has been having some really severe health issues. I had to put her down yesterday. I'm heartbroken but know it was the best thing for her so she wouldn't suffer. :(

Kat, I'm so sorry for your loss. It is very painful to lose a pet, even if that pet has lived a long and full life. Having to make that ultimate decision for them is one of the most difficult and one of the most loving things we can do for them. I hope you feel better and the incredible sadness you must feel starts to subside if just a little bit.
 

MustangSallie

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Well I just went 24 hours without vaping with no negative symptoms at all, and I am typically a chain vapor at 6mg with an occasional 12mg thrown in here and there. I just had the most lovely conversation with the limo driver on the 45 minute ride home from the airport and I was completely in the conversation. I wasn't thinking at all about getting home, grabbing a charged battery and vaping. That is a feat I never would have been able to accomplish when I was still smoking.
 

MagnusEunson

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I didn't want to respond to this at first but here I go.. this is not going to be popular but don't panic. I'll get there.

There is nothing wrong w/ this study in the way it uses controls and also does research on nicotine replacement therapies. They appropriately established a baseline by which the significant change was the nicotine concentration. Further, other studies that deliver nicotine directly administered (also in mice and rats) have found that in healthy individuals nicotine can have adverse effects on insulin response and thus potentially contribute to pre-diabetes. Which is also on the road to atherosclerosis. So in terms of just going, "it's about the rest of the stuff in cigarettes".. that's not going to work here. Nicotine definitely contributes on its own.

With that said.....

- Going back a few decades there has been a back-and-forth as to whether caffeine contributes. Even longer-term studies on just caffeine consumption have produced conflicting results.

- Carbon monoxide in cigarettes contribute too so vapers have removed at least that one.

- The leading contributor is still diet, specifically fatty acids / cholesterol.

- Blood pressure is a big contributor to atherosclerosis.

Without spilling tens of links my general findings have been that if you're having trouble with bad cholesterol, diabetes, and blood pressure then adding nicotine through vaping isn't going to help you. But in relation to risk... how much more risk does nicotine through vaping add to your life as it is? Are you trying to be completely risk averse? (Good luck with that.)

Think of it this way... lets say you are afraid of the measured increase of atherosclerosis due to nicotine (not to mention the severity of the lesions were relative and not absolute nor were they studied in humans (yet)). Lets say you're afraid.

Cut all meat, not just red meat out of your diet. Reduce your sugar intake. Maybe cut caffeine out. Stop living in a big city or near traffic areas where ground ozone and carbon monoxide concentrations are higher. And hope that you aren't genetically predisposed to high blood pressure. FEAR. UNCERTAINTY. DOUBT.

If you don't have your nicotine do you find yourself substituting with other things that might be worse in ~this~ regard? Say...... more fatty foods like ice cream or red meat? More alcohol that can contribute to insulin resistance too?

On top of all of this... we already know nicotine's risk as a stimulant with regards to things like heart arrhythmias. BUT PLEASE..... RISK is not a stationary value in anybody's life. If you have multiple risk factors and feel like reducing nicotine is an option for you, lower your dose.

And... if you're still really thinking nicotine is your likely risk factor, and you're not willing to wait for more in-depth studies to find out, then add some Niacin (B3) and L-arginine to your diet. Any B complex for the former and peanuts, walnuts, sunflower seeds, or any soy protein for the latter. (Although I personally recommend limiting soy intake for other reasons.)

In closing. There are a lot of risky behaviors that tie into about a zillion ways to increase your odds of some way to die. There is nothing suggesting nicotine, itself, tied to atherosclerosis, is statistically more likely to cause you harm than tens of other things you consume and do every day.

Rambling rant over and out. -Magnus
 

John Phoenix

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Sorry I cannot watch heavy metal or hard rock music videos, because you see I'm an addict. If I just watch one I'm libel to put on my leather jacket, studded bracelets, headband, grab my air guitar, crank it up and annoy my wife for yet another 8 hours. :headbang: :banana:

Nah, really that was cool, thanks for sharing. :)

I don't know what's going on, since I don't read pages when they get to be too many, which happens every single day. But this one is for everyone!

YouTube - ‪Band Of Skulls - I Know What I Am‬‏
 

RichardLOZ

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I don't know what you're talking abour Richard we're a very quiet bunch :p

Ya think...LOL. So I sl;eep for a few hours overnight and do a couple of things during the day and come back to be 15 pages behind again. At least no one can accuse me of watching too much TV and not reading enough I suppose :)

Now back to page 33 to catch up again!
 

ShannonA

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I also find it very interesting that a "long time member" of this forum crawled out of the woodwork right as the e-cig wars were going full force... this person must have thought they had a good opening to come back and maybe we'd forget the hate she evoked,

Do we know who she's talking about here?

Wait what? I lie down because I get a cheadache and all kinds of stuff goes on without me. :(
 

phonedude

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I nearly had to slap myself last night... I found myself almost falling for the "doomed to failure" attitude; after all, aren't we all deluding ourselves that we have really quit? /sarcasm

It only lasted for a split second, though! :thumb:

I would have had to light up a cigarette and think about it.

The funny thing is, there are posts over there from people who have joined since Monday and their posts are going through. I am starting to suspect that Randy and I have been blacklisted. I think Randy said some of his posts could be considered inflammatory, but I honestly don't think any of mine were. Although, as I said, some were made in some of the more volotile threads in response to some of the nastier posts. I have other email addresses I could use to register with again, but honestly, if the posts I made are enough to get me banned then I'm thinking that may be a place I don't need to hang out at. I'm the kind of person who says what's on my mind. I try never to be abrasive and abusive, but I don't like to censor myself just to get along with the crowd.

We want you as a member. Soon as I post this I will go check my pm's just in case.

So I should probably follow my own advice and not post on this CT thread, but I made not ONE mention of ecigs, purposely. LOL I can't help myself sometimes.

Sometimes its just too hard. That's why I don't go looking for trouble much LOL.
 
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