E-cigarette smokers Insurance

[Maurice Pudlo]

No. Nicotine use still elevates blood pressure, thus increasing the risk of a heart attack. Doesn't matter is is safer than smoking, it is still increased risk, thus higher premiums...

Ah, however are those premiums enforced for folks on NRT as well? If I am proscribed NRT, MC Hammer said it best, YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS.

For example; http://www.purdue.edu/hr/Benefits/tobaccopremium.html

I use the nicotine patch, does that count as tobacco use?

No. Nicotine replacement therapy, such as the nicotine patch or nicotine gum, does not count as tobacco use.

I don't believe it is possible to distinguish between nicotine delivered via NRT or nicotine delivered via a personal vaporizer.

What you do with that is up to you.

Maurice

 

[stevegmu]

Yes, but how many other factors increase blood pressue? Obesity.. sodium.. stress.. air pollution.. sedetary lifestyle... etc.

When going through private insurance, just about all of those factors are considered when determining rates, thus pages of questions and a physical and health screening required for most coverage.

 

[stevegmu]

Ah, however are those premiums enforced for folks on NRT as well? If I am proscribed NRT, MC Hammer said it best, YOU CAN'T TOUCH THIS.

Maurice

I am not sure. I don't have private insurance, but a group plan, but I imagine if one is on NRT, they were a smoker, so their rates would be higher.

 

[Dayglow]

Don't forget about caffeine consumption elevating BP and not being particularly cared about by insurance companies. Lots of things affect the body, few things get really cared about.

 

[stevegmu]

With the health screening and physical, elevated blood pressure and heart rate from caffeine would factor into premiums...

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I am not sure. I don't have private insurance, but a group plan, but I imagine if one is on NRT, they were a smoker, so their rates would be higher.

Being considered a smoker depends on the policy, in the link I provided above that company considers you a smoker:

How does Purdue define a "tobacco user"?

A tobacco user is a person who has used tobacco in the past 12 months. Tobacco includes cigars, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco or any other tobacco product.

And while they do consider e-cigarettes tobacco:

Are electronic cigarettes included as tobacco use for the additional premium?

Yes, because they may contain tobacco, or they may contain nicotine, which is derived from tobacco. The health effects of using electronic cigarettes are currently unknown. Several studies regarding the long-term health effects of nicotine vapor, both inhaled directly and secondhand, are currently in progress. The FDA will be developing regulations on electronic cigarettes as tobacco products under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.

I have doubts they can enforce this at the moment as it has yet to happen, and will not be something they can likely ever prove.

Maurice

 

[stevegmu]

I just wouldn't take the risk lying to them to save a few $/month. I used my insurance 3 years ago after having emergency surgery an know just how much the bills would have been had I not had good insurance...

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I'm under the impression that a few dollars is not what we are talking about here, the choice to be had for well over a few dollars a month is yours. For an assumed risk, not a proven risk.

Maurice

 

[Dayglow]

With the health screening and physical, elevated blood pressure and heart rate from caffeine would factor into premiums...

My heart rate and BP remain fairly consistent regardless of recent caffeine or nicotine. I can go weeks without either and have the same results as when I use them every day. Maybe I am just uniquely unaffected by stimulants the way most people are, but I do not see either of those contributing much to my overall health or lack thereof. The only thing that tends to spike my BP is a massive load of salt shortly before a reading, but that levels back to normal fairly quickly.

 

[stevegmu]

I'm under the impression that a few dollars is not what we are talking about here, the choice to be had for well over a few dollars a month is yours. For an assumed risk, not a proven risk.

Maurice

For me, I save $25/ month on my premiums for certifying that I am not a smoker. My premiums are ridiculously low, however,- $92/month after the discount. Of course all plans are different.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I just wouldn't take the risk lying to them to save a few $/month. I used my insurance 3 years ago after having emergency surgery an know just how much the bills would have been had I not had good insurance...

Good insurance and stringing you along by the short hairs insurance are two entirely different things.

Here is the Purdue form: http://www.purdue.edu/hr/pdf/TobaccoUserCertification.pdf

Maurice

 

[Davey59]

If they ask me if I vape, I will answer yes. If they ask me if I smoke, well I don't. My provider still thinks I smoke cigarettes.

Not sure how they are going to go about any of this since one hell of a lot of people do not use nic or any other tobacco products in their vape at all.

I have no doubt that anybody currently enjoying the windfall of tobacco taxes and or other means of inflating their margins will fight tooth and nail to keep their base. Prepare to bend over and take the ramrod of greed and ignorance and corruption.

 

[Mogar]

I play in a dart league that uses bar's constantly for their locations... When I quit smoking a few years back (2 years) I failed my nic test. I had to prove I did not smoke. What a joke....

 

[amolson]

Hmm, to paraphrase Groucho Marx "Yes, I quit smoking. Five times a day."

Having talked to people who actually know, like respiratory therapists, insurance adjusters, etc ... um, no, unless you're an extremely heavy smoker or use a lot of chewing tobacco, it's nearly impossible to distinguish normal nicotine use from background or second hand.

Now for a job, that's another game. They can demand anything. But for insurance, heh, no. The quantities are way too low and it's a business arrangement, not an ownership arrangement.

 

[Blue73]

I just wouldn't take the risk lying to them to save a few $/month. I used my insurance 3 years ago after having emergency surgery an know just how much the bills would have been had I not had good insurance...

I hear what you're saying Steve, and you are right that you would be exposing yourself, but that does not make it right for insurance companies to pick and choose which behaviors they consider high-risk, especially when they have no sound medical research to back it.

 

[Equilibrium]

The insurance industry is a racket! A very lucrative one….

 

[ut1205]

It doesn't really matter whether nicotine is bad for you, good for you, or totally benign, health insurance companies, like local, state, and federal governments see a "cash cow" and they are going to take advantage of it because they can. There are a lot of lifestyle choices that cost insurance companies much more than nicotine use ever could but because of "political correctiness" they are not even allowed to ask. Vapers have been lumped in with smokers and therefore we get equal hate. There is no ACLU to help us.

For what it is worth, pay the bill and get on with your life.

Edit: I just signed up for Medicare a couple of months ago and there were no questions about tobacco at all. I wonder how long that is going to last.

 

[moralizer]

Biggest rule of insurance is only answer what they ask for - With a yes or no, unless explicitly stated.

Its quite easy to overcome small traces of nicotine, just say you eat a lot of raw ripe tomatoes.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Biggest rule of insurance is only answer what they ask for - With a yes or no, unless explicitly stated.

Just like talking to the police....

Its quite easy to overcome small traces of nicotine, just say you eat a lot of raw ripe tomatoes.

Claim NRT use along with zero nicotine in your atomizer if you are ever seen using it. The argument is untouchable.

Maurice

 

[moralizer]

Just like talking to the police....

Yes it is. Reminded me of a spectacular video titled Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

Similar rules apply to insurance underwriters.