e-cigarette Wikipedia article needs help
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Almost any rifle could fall under that category with the loosest of interpretations, but as far as e-cigs go, the only complete systems there really are are disposable cigalikes- battery and atomizer being a single unit...
You don't know anything about vaping. You would like to change a wiki page about vaping, but you don't know anything about vaping. You don't seem to really care about vaping, except that it's a wiki-page that you'd like to have credit for editing.
Just my take on the previous posts.
If I'm wrong and you would really like to know something about vaping, spend a couple of months here with us. It's a great bunch of folks and we're happy to share info and help out the new guys.
The e-cig market has heavily self regulated itself. If you have failed to do research on that, that is your own fault. In fact, it was actually specifically mentioned in one of the threads given to you for your reading. I guess you must have missed it. Here it is again: 10 Facts That Everyone Gets Wrong About Vaping - Listverse
Specifically, read section 6 of that article.
I don't know exactly what part I represent. I see a decent portion of the people on here using mech mods and RDAs. They would all fall into the same segment as myself. As for how many people will ever change the heating element in their device, if they plan on sticking with it, 100% of them WILL have to change the heating element in their vaping device, as the element must be replaced eventually.
Good question. I am just one person of all the people who vape. If there are a million people who vape, I guess that means I am 0.0001% of the vaping population. If there are only 100,000 who vape(we know there are more than that), I am 0.001% of the population. However, I know there are thousands of people who are buying RDAs and many more than that constantly looking for ways to improve their vaping experience. Personally, I never thought I would want to deal with making coils or anything like that. After realizing how much better of an experience I could have if I got into that, I chose to pursue that route, as I am sure many others have. Thousands of people before me have used vaping to get off cigarettes, thousands more will continue to(hopefully). If I had to guess, I would say 70% or more of the people who vape have moved to it from smoking.
Again, I don't have any solid numbers. If you want, start a thread with a survey asking how many people own RDAs or plan on purchasing one in the future. I think the number will be much higher than you think. I estimate it will easily be in the 25%-30% range. On top of that, ask how many people have gone to different tanks or different clearomizers because they want more flavor or a different vape.
This statement is proof that you have everyone all wrong. I can probably look through this thread and find at least 10 people who know far more than me. If I looked through the forum, I would probably find at least 1000 who are far more knowledgeable than me. Based on your 1 in 10,000 number, there should only be 22 people or so on the whole forum knowing as much as I do. At the end of the day, I am not the most knowledgeable on the subject. There is A LOT of it left for me to learn. I have only started vaping 7 months ago. There are a lot of people here who can make me look like the court jester when it comes to knowledge of e-cigs and everything they entail.
A coil that costs 10 times as much is not what I would deem a "nominal" upcharge. At the end of the day, these things are devices that get handled rough. They get dropped. They fall out of pockets. They fall over on tables. They get knocked off tables. In a case of one of mine, it is sitting at the bottom of a pond where I dropped it while fishing(I am sure this is a rare case, but one that has happened). In any of these cases, if the fancy coil you are wanting mandated gets damaged, it is going to be a significant cost to fix it. Would I prefer a method where there is no risk of toxic matters? ABSOLUTELY. The problem is, I don't want to be paying 10 times more for something that may only be marginally better(or may actually perform worse). Also, from what I have been reading, the results with heavy metals were on cartomizers using nichrome wire. I would be interested to see the same tests performed with kanthal wire and Ti wire. Either of those options may produce less(or none) of the heavy metals that nichrome wire produced. Also, with the advent of temperature control, the amount of those metals may be significantly less(or none). In that case, we would already be heading towards the "safer" option you are saying we need to go to, but without having the risk of a ceramic coil explode and injure someone. I don't disagree that safer is better. I just think there is more than one option out there to look into. Until tests have been done on these newer methods, we can't really be sure what they contain.
If anyone has any links to studies done with kanthal or temperature controlled devices using nichrome or Ti wire, please post links to them so I can read up on it.
Believe it or not, the early adopters went for what were essentially cigalikes. That was all that was around over a decade ago when e-cigs came about. Since then, there have been numerous new iterations. The very first devices were much like cigalikes. Since then, they have made different resistances in cartomizers to change the vape a little. There have also been mechanical mods that would carry a much more powerful battery, also allowing people to make their own atomizers to build something to suit themselves. We have seen the rise of variable voltage and variable wattage devices so you can simply pick a different resistance and not have to build it yourself. Now we are seeing the rise of temperature control. That is A LOT of innovation if you think it is still in its infancy. I truly don't believe we can say people getting into vaping now are "early adopters" anymore. They are jumping in after over a decade of innovations.
Also, you keep saying "self regulate or die" and referencing big tobacco pushing us out because of the heating element we use. What do you think big tobacco uses for a heating element in their devices? It isn't a ceramic coated element. It is the exact same thing as in any other device. I will drive home my point about this silly "self regulate or die" attitude you have real soon.
Your conclusion is that the steps taken will be to take away the safer option, and the government mandate people go back to the more dangerous option? I guess that makes sense(sarcasm).
This whole "self regulate or die" idea can be demolished by looking at one group: BIG TOBACCO!
The same group that you keep referencing is proof that self regulation not happening won't always lead something being taken away. I mean, we know there are THOUSANDS of dangerous chemicals in cigarette smoke, yet it is perfectly legal for an adult to smoke. If they didn't self regulate to make it safe and have no harmful chemicals, why didn't it die? There are actually MORE harmful chemicals added to it now than there were back when people were going for straight tobacco leaves. Do you really think the tobacco lobby that would be lobbying to get rid of APVs would actually push that hard to make their own devices be outlawed? The tobacco industry doesn't care about your health, and they don't care about your safety. They only care about profits. The ceramic element that you are saying will last 3 years is their worst enemy. They want something that wears out fairly soon so you have to come back and buy another one of their overpriced products.
I believe taxes will be imposed on e-liquids and probably devices in the future, regardless of how safe they will become. That is the nature of our government. If it can be taxed, they will tax it. Fortunately, people will still be able to get by without being taxed heavily if they are willing to invest their time. E-liquids are easy to produce. Coils are easy to make. RDAs are relatively easy to work with, if you are willing to do some researce. I can't see them taxing batteries, as they can be used in too many other devices. If someone really wants, they can build their own mod. This is a bit complicated for most, and I could see a lot of people being hit one time with a tax on this and the RDA. The wire is already out there for industrial purposes. To tax it, they would force additional taxes on industries.
Funny you would bring that up. Using your logic of "It has to be the safest or it has to go" means Windows shouldn't exist. From one IT professional to another, why would you use an inferior operating system? Why do you want to use something that has more holes than swiss cheese, and can't properly manage resources to save its life? Why do you not want a more secure and efficient system? Why are you using something that has all those flaws, and costs more(in most cases) than something that has many less flaws?
If everyone was more concerned about safety than anything else, wouldn't they have all moved away from Windows? To a business, its information is its life. If something out there is so dangerous, why use it?
Think of cigarettes as a fresh installation of windows. They are both horribly unsafe, and have a lot of risks(yeah, it has Windows Defender, but that adds just about as much safety as that cotton filter on a cigarette). Think of e-cigs as a windows installation with an antivirus and malware detection and removal software. The safety has been improved, but there are still flaws. Think of your coil idea and other safety features as a safer linux distribution. The possibility is there, but not in common use because there have been significant hurdles to overcome in getting there. As time goes on, there is a slow progression towards that safer option(just as we are seeing more businesses begin to use linux distributions in more areas, more devices are coming out with temperature control to reduce the risk of overheating the coils). We can't just instantly jump from one to the other. It is going to be a slow transition, and there will be bumps along the road. What matters is that the progress is already being made.
Eventually, the market will be somewhat regulated and taxed regardless of how safe it becomes. It will all come down to how much you want to be taxed. If you don't mind the tax, you can get hit by it every time you go to buy something e-cig related. If you want to avoid being taxed as much as you can, you can make most of the things yourself and get away from most of the taxation.
They are going to have a VERY hard time regulating and taxing a part of the market I would dive into. Until they decide to ban metal, wire, batteries, and switches, the option to have my segment will still be out there virtually tax free.
You might try reading the entire thread, as you obviously have missed a lot of what was posted. For example, here's a link to page 8 of this thread, where I posted the entirety of the Lede and made the request for any changes to it that people would like to make. You are also welcome to make any suggestions on the Lede, or if you like you could submit the whole thing and I'll submit it on the Wikipedia "Discussion Pages" for consideration. Just make certain to follow all Wikipedia policies and have all your citations included in whatever complete work you submit. Otherwise, and informal conversation about what is missing from the Lede, what should be taken out, ways to rephrase things etc... are all worth talking about.
I have no problem being told (numerous times) that I don't know anything about vaping. I'm here asking. Any other Wikipedia Editors ever do that before? And also, I would think that the people that are comfortable making mention of what I don't know about vaping should at least be expected to read the entire thread before jumping in with their opinions, because most of the irritation that I'm sensing is occurring as a direct result of the "irritated" person failing to read the entire thread.
And also, if you don't like this Wikipedia Editor's level of knowledge about vaping, understand I came here because it was obvious to me that the only people working on the "e-cigarette" article were less informed that I am at best, and at worst are working directly for the Big Money interests so many people here are concerned about. With the exception of a couple of other people here, that may or may not be willing to see this project through over the long term, I'm the only resource you've got on Wikipedia. Note the title of the thread, and the phrase "asking for help". You are welcome to help. Here, or directly on Wikipedia. It is not difficult to become a Wikipedia Editor. Username, password, email account, confirmation email, DONE. Learning all their policies etc... is extremely difficult and getting along with other Editors is impossible, unless one is willing to agree to that which is wrong for the sake of getting along. Not my strong suit.
Wallace, I would like to thank you for your sincere desire to change misinformation, hopefully it will come to fruition as the end result.
I was a 40 year smoker, able to quit smoking the same day I began vaping....No other products could accomplish this. I tried them all, with NO success.
I was a 40 year smoker, able to quit smoking the same day I began vaping....No other products could accomplish this. I tried them all, with NO success.
I didn't title the thread "Want to Join a Community and Finds Lots of Friends for a Few Months Before I Think About Possibly Rewriting the Wikipedia Article, Maybe, Someday". I'm here to ask for help to do a project on Wikipedia. And if you don't think I "care about vaping" you obviously haven't read any of the post because I've detailed clearly my opinions on what needs to happen in order to promote vaping to the general public, and please note, one of those things is improving the Wikipedia Article, which is an option that is also available to you, since you seem to "care about vaping" so much.
And also, FYI, none of what you posted made your "baseball park" metaphor any clearer to me, nor did I get the idea that you even tried to clarify your previous statement. I take what people post here seriously. I'm trying to take what you post seriously.
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You and me cannot edit *that* page, but he can. That is why he is asking us here.
The first paragraph seems adequate to me to be the lede.
The last paragraph to seems seems ok to include, but better yet to follow under the heading of "History"
The second and third paragraph strike me as being out of place for the lede
Actually, "just anyone" can edit Wikipedia. What they DON'T tell you is that as soon as you do, 3 or 4 people are going to swoop in and look at what you've done with a microscope. Here's how you start:
Create account - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Line#8: I don't think 'aerosol' is the right word there;
'aerosol' can connote something emitted under pressure
I think 'mist' or 'fog' would be more accurate.
'aerosol' can connote something emitted under pressure
I think 'mist' or 'fog' would be more accurate.
It's these common sense perspectives that I start with. I started smoking when I was 15, and told myself then, knowing that it was bad, that I was going to quit when I was "old", but not so old that I had cancer. So, I survived until I was 40 years old, and then the body started telling me it was time to honor that promise I made. I remember the exact moment I quit smoking. I was rolling out sod in the front yard of a job I was doing, and the 21 mg Nicoderm patch was releasing all the nicotine too fast because it was hot and I was sweaty and it was making me sick. And it was either quit working because I couldn't wear the patch in the heat, go back to cigarettes and keep working or quit nicotine for good, right there and right then. And so that is what I did. One of the clearest moments of personal decision making I have ever had in my entire life.
But I might have quit 10 years earlier if I had vaping to turn to as an alternative to expensive nicoderm patches or "cold turkey". I think about that, and Lanny (here) and the people who I used to see sucking on cigarettes through their tracheotomy tube outside the hospital (that was when you could smoke outside the building). Skinny, scrawny elderly patients, most of whom were within months of dying from COPD, lung disease, heart disease, etc... Some smoking a cigarette in one hand and sucking oxygen with the other. All those people are dead now. They might still be alive today if Vaping had been an option.
My concern is, given the self-destructive direction the United States is going, Big Pharma will "win" and vaping devices will only be made available as a regulated medical device and businesses selling them will be required to have local licensing that prohibits the sale of unapproved devices. These techno-geeks with their mods and their online access to state-of-the-art vaping technology will not be inconvenienced, but some people may wind up DEAD because they don't like doctors, don't want to pay $250 for a "medically approved" vaping device (when an equally functional device might have been had for $50 in an open market). People that read reports on Wikipedia about heavy metals due to an inability to prevent the heating element from degrading and releasing toxins, so they continue smoking, get cancer and die, when their lives might have been saved had the quality of the Wikipedia Article been improved and the quality of the vaping devices upgraded to a level that prevented disinformation and propaganda from dissuading members of the general public (and not of the "vaping community") from vaping.
I struggle with this one too. I'm not certain it's the same kind of "aerosol" as a spray paint, due to the fact that it's being heated. I wonder if the field of "aerosols" has sub-divided the different kinds of aerosols and how they are created. I also wonder if it might be possible to have a Vaping Device that works from pressure instead of temperature. Or both even. What if you did some kind of CO2 assisted vaporizor that "pushed" the CO2 and nicotine through a heating element?
That reminds me of those nebulizer asthma inhalers; they do not work by boiling a liquid; they work by pressure when you press down on it and something sprays out under pressure; that could be described as an aerosol.
You don't see posters here referring to their vape as 'aerosol'; it's just described as vape.
What comes off the coil can correctly be called a vapour; however, the fog or mist that is created when you blow on the coil or inhale then exhale is not merely a vapour, but a mist or fog resulting from water vapour in the air condensing on the vapour.
The pg an vg used in fog machines are hydroscopic, meaning they attract water molecules.
An aerosol on the other hand, produces it's own droplets of whatever substance it is.
The fog you get from a fog machine is partly due to the water vapour present in the humidity of the air.
RDA : Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer.
Cheapest way to vape.
The typical device you see commercially is the clearomizer, which is mostly a tank for the liquid, and it has a small atomizer.
An RDA is all atomizer, and no tank. You drip or squirt some liquid into the rda and vape for a few minutes.
Rebuildable means it has posts and screws so you can wrap and affix your own coil, unlike a clearomizer where you have to keep buying new coil heads all the time.
Don't leave out the RBA's that include rebuildable clearomizers. They dominate the upscale market.
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