E-Juice's for Dummies...What to look for in an E-Juice and supplier...? Anyone...?

[TGT]

Ok, I've been really looking around and have found some huge differences, in cost mostly, for E-juice. And I've also been reading some stuff that makes me quiete suspicous, and now quiete suspicous of almost all E-juice.

One example: I noticed some brown sediment at the bottom of one of my fav flavours and didnt notice it in the other flavours from the same supplier/company. I asked about this and they asked their supplier who in turn answered:

"Yes it is normal and you can usually shake it and it will mix back in with the juice, sometimes it will not but there is nothing wrong with it, its part of the flavour extracting process, we try and strain most of it out but the only way to get that authentic flavour is with some sediments. Its also part of why we do not encourage users to vape ***** (flavour name, not sure if I should write it here) indefinitely although there is no dangers that we know of and we have investigated it".

RED FLAG or not...?

One specific flavour on a site states that the flavour contains certain alkaloids found in actual tobacco and may pose health risks, whereas none of their other juices contain that certain alkaloid. Could this be the case with my fav juice? And if so then why is it not simply stated...

Some sites state that thier juice is not made using, and does not contain, any alcohol. Some sites do not say whether it is used or not. I'm not a chemist or a bioligist, and maybe we could use them here, but I do know that a by product of heating/steaming alcohol is methylhydrate, which can cause blindness (I would suppose in high doses/intake, but what is a high dose or how much is too much, and could small doses/intake chronically build up to an exessive amount?) among other damage and who knows how many other health problems. Should this be a concern?

It seems that there is no full analysis or ingredients list or concentration amounts of, for the most part. So how do we know what we are getting? Is it wise to shy away from the "cheap" juice and spend the extra dollar...is that good enough, or is there much more to it? So it seems there is. Some less expensive juice may be made more meticulously and carefully and conciencously than an expensive juice..so who's to say.

Many of the same flavours can be found at different places...same flavour but different compositions are likely. And is it all that important how they get to that flavour...?

Is it all just PG/VG ,or either one alone, based with simple harmless flavour added, or is there much more ingredients in juices as in levels of concentrations to be concerned about...? Keeping in mind that the juice is being heated and obviously releasing any or all compounds it's comprised of, and any by products. It seems that there is more than just PG, VG, or flavour in E-Juice.

This the only site I found that shows an analysis, and they should be applauded for that: E Cig Liquid | Electric Cigarette Liquid | Totally Wicked E Liquid Lab Report

Another link to an interesting article I just found and am adding: http://esmokersmag.com/2009/03/25/propylene-glycol-and-vegetable-glycerine/

We should also consider the fact that in vaping the liquid is heated and how much heat is produced...of course it varies with different set up's, but are there any by products being produced by the heating. Glycerine for example will give off methanol, but that's at a heating point above what an e-cig could do...is it?

I'm a fan of vaping and I'm not discouraged, or trying to discourage anyone else for doing so. Just after searching and searching, I find myself left wondering.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

PS: Does anyone know where I can get the good stuff

Adding some more to this:

From txvaporguy, (thanks :

The E-Liquid for Dummies guide should include the following statement as well: Do not knowingly vape anything that contains Acetoin, Diacetyl, or it's counterparts as these compounds are suspected to cause undesirable effects on the lungs.

 

[seantex]

I usually go through trusted ECF suppliers who make their own juices here in USA. Vermillion River is a good one as he will gladly disclose all ingredients (within reason) SpringVapor is another person who is a DIYer from the forum who uses regular old vg pg and flavorings with nic liquid. I don't go through anyone else normally as I really have no idea what they include. Ultimately e juice is simple to make and adding anything other than the required vg pg flavorings and nic would have a cost associated with it. It is cheap to use the good stuff so why use bad stuff and pay more to do it?

 

[luceblueboy]

The good news to start off, you've done a lot of research. That's where a lot of vapors mess up. Also you're asking questions and looking for answers. That's another high point. To start off with price differences, it really can reflect the quality of the liquid. There's a few companies that are infamous for cheap priced liquids. They are also infamous for terrible tasting liquids with one found to be using incorrect measuring of nicotine levels. There's tons of juice vendors out there. Searching them on here especially through the juice review section will help.

Secondly, the sediment makes sense if the flavors are extracted. Most companies use flavoring from a couple different vendors (flavourart, perfumer's apprentice, flavor west, etc) and mix these into vg/pg with some nic. There will be no sediment or harshness on the atty/carto because of this. Other vendors go for the more expensive but higher quality route of extracted/natural/organic flavorings. These are much harsher on the atty/carto (tobaccos especially) but will taste much more real. If it's from a highly regarded vendor I wouldn't worry about it.

Thirdly, tobacco alkaloids are becoming a new trend with some vendors. This is supposedly a more authentic vaping experience. I myself have not tried this. There is a really informative article here on ecf wta. I really don't want anything added to my liquids like this therefore I appreciate liquid from extracted tobaccos. They taste like the real thing because they come from the real thing.

Lastly, my best advice is research, research, research. I personally have used and love these companies: Want2Vape, Backwoods Brew, Alien Visions, Tasty Vapor, Kick Bass Vapor, Vermillion River, Ahlusion, Highbrow Vapor, Velvet Vapor, and Halo. That's a whole lot of companies and there's tons more quality ones I haven't tried yet. All of these I found through looking at reviews and going from there. Good luck on your vaping journey

 

[TGT]

There is a really informative article here on ecf wta. I really don't want anything added to my liquids like this therefore I appreciate liquid from extracted tobaccos. They taste like the real thing because they come from the real thing.

First off, thanks for both answers above.

I have read the article on WTA. I was under the impression that WTA in liquids is a result from extracting from actual tobacco and it was not an additive...? I have read some disclaimers of liquids that are made this way (and are not labeled WTA Liquid) that state the extraction process results in the liquids containing Whole Tobacco Alkaloids, WTA's, because of that extraction. So, are not all WTA liquids just tobacco extracted flavours, and not a liquid with some sort of isolated, concentrated, compounds from tobacco added, which would seem to be the same result anyway both ways...?

With respect to the safety concerns of WTA liquid, I would suppose it's just more like a true cigarrette when those alkaloids are present in E-Juice. which makes vaping it a concern for people trying to stay away from all/any of the carcinogenic chemicals in an analog.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Believe me, you won't get WTA's by accident. They don't seem to be widely available, you have to know where to look.

 

[SuperLuckyLady]

FYI: The ECOpure line of juices is tested and documented, both the starting materials and the finished product. See http://www.intellicig-usa.com/ECOpure-e-Liquid-s/38.htm[/URL]

 

[TGT]

Believe me, you won't get WTA's by accident. They don't seem to be widely available, you have to know where to look.

I'm not implying that vapers may be using WTA's without even knowing it or by "accident". I'm asking, what is a WTA E_Liquid? Is it simply a liquid that uses actual tobacco extraction or something more.

I purchased one that does not state it is a WTA at all, but later found that they use real tobacco to make the specific flavour, so I'm pretty sure WTA's are present in the liquid and I had no clue...all I knew is that it sure did taste and feel like the real thing, but then that's the first liquid I used and still use.

 

[Str8V8ping]

Im not a expert but i think WTA's have to be extract specifically and just because a juice is extracted from real tobacco doesnt mean its a WTA juice . There are only 2 vendors that make juices with WTA and thats Aromaejuice and Vapelicious it think .When a vendor is using WTA they will be letting you know thats for sure since it is more expensive and rare so they want to really announce it .

Ejuices are a lot more simple then you seem to be thinking . Different vendors use different flavors . Take a chocolate ejuice for example . There are more than 4 different flavoring companies making chocolate flavoring so one vendor may have a higher quality flavoring then others . Flavoring are not specific to ecigs ,the flavorings have been around for decades and are traditionally used in baking,food,coffees,candy etc . They are usually in a PG base as well .Vendors pricing also goes by what nic they are using . The higher cost nic (USA) is usually higher quality so vendors need to charge more for their juices . As for alcohol it is used in ejuices a lot and is nothing out of the ordinary . it is used to extract some tobacco flavorings as well as in low niv juices to boost TH . Most ECF approved Ejuice vendor stick to the basics which are PG,VG,FLavoring,Nic and in juices that need it sweetener,PGA,citric

 

[Jerry B]

Well i am certainly no expert but since you ask here is my worth. You speaking of Tobacco Absolutes and perhaps WPA (does anyone know are they the same thing?). In and of themselves they do not contain nic, only elements of the plant. From what i have gathered they are added to give a kick to your juice. a more satisfying feeling which helps some people quit smoking. I have vaped it without knowing it even. I admit the brand of juice i started out on has it, which caught me off gard as the flavor was strawberry.

As for sediment that indeed is a common thing to get if your a tobacco flavor kind of person. Basically it comes from steeping tobacco and PG to leech out the flavor. Myself i would not worry about it so much, but if you are vape non tobacco flavors. There will be some sediment in other juices as well but its mostly things like ethyl malto (used as a sweetener), menthol (which is bought in crystal form) and so forth and so on.

In the end i think there are enough vapors that most of what could go wrong would have done so already and we would have heard. Oh one last thing, you mentioned spending extra for top shelf kinds of juice instead of the cheaper. That really wont make a difference as things like tobacco absolutes are a pretty pricey thing not a cheap one. The brand i have vaped with the absolutes so happens to be one of the highest dollar juices i have found.

 

[swedishfish]

Im not a expert but i think WTA's have to be extract specifically and just because a juice is extracted from real tobacco doesnt mean its a WTA juice . There are only 2 vendors that make juices with WTA and thats Aromaejuice and Vapelicious it think .When a vendor is using WTA they will be letting you know thats for sure since it is more expensive and rare so they want to really announce it .

Ejuices are a lot more simple then you seem to be thinking . Different vendors use different flavors . Take a chocolate ejuice for example . There are more than 4 different flavoring companies making chocolate flavoring so one vendor may have a higher quality flavoring then others . Flavoring are not specific to ecigs ,the flavorings have been around for decades and are traditionally used in baking,food,coffees,candy etc . They are usually in a PG base as well .Vendors pricing also goes by what nic they are using . The higher cost nic (USA) is usually higher quality so vendors need to charge more for their juices . As for alcohol it is used in ejuices a lot and is nothing out of the ordinary . it is used to extract some tobacco flavorings as well as in low niv juices to boost TH . Most ECF approved Ejuice vendor stick to the basics which are PG,VG,FLavoring,Nic and in juices that need it sweetener,PGA,citric

Str8V8ping pretty much nailed it. If you're concerned, DIY is probably the answer. It's pretty basic stuff. The juice, not DIY.

 

[TGT]

Im not a expert but i think WTA's have to be extract specifically and just because a juice is extracted from real tobacco doesnt mean its a WTA juice . There are only 2 vendors that make juices with WTA and thats Aromaejuice and Vapelicious it think .When a vendor is using WTA they will be letting you know thats for sure since it is more expensive and rare so they want to really announce it .

Ejuices are a lot more simple then you seem to be thinking . Different vendors use different flavors . Take a chocolate ejuice for example . There are more than 4 different flavoring companies making chocolate flavoring so one vendor may have a higher quality flavoring then others . Flavoring are not specific to ecigs ,the flavorings have been around for decades and are traditionally used in baking,food,coffees,candy etc . They are usually in a PG base as well .Vendors pricing also goes by what nic they are using . The higher cost nic (USA) is usually higher quality so vendors need to charge more for their juices . As for alcohol it is used in ejuices a lot and is nothing out of the ordinary . it is used to extract some tobacco flavorings as well as in low niv juices to boost TH . Most ECF approved Ejuice vendor stick to the basics which are PG,VG,FLavoring,Nic and in juices that need it sweetener,PGA,citric

Yes, flavoring has been used for many, many years now in products we consume/eat and seems to be safe in that respect, but now we are not talking about eating flavoring or E_Juice (which we know is no good, kind of an irony there, it can be inhaled but cannot/should not be eaten, but because of nic.), were talking about inhaling it, which is a totally different way of using the flavoring, which is a whole different process of intake and elimination. The process is all together different.

And I spoke with a chemist who warns against inhaling vanillin, since it becomes a toxic gas when heated (which is in all vannila flavoring, from what I found, hopefully there is another source for the vanilla flavor in ejuice since it's my favorite flavor. Now that does not sound like it's all just cookies and cream and it's all ok.

http://www.be-longgroup.com/Human-Nutrition/Vanillin.html