Mmm.. no. They are ignoring the history of the Bible. The thing was written in like 100 ad. Back then there really was just one church, and even it barely existed.
This is the problem with literalism. It has the same problem as classic pharacitical logic: break everything down into smaller and smaller parts till you’re overwhelmed and can’t see the outside, then find a tiny reference that supports your argument and snap the whole thing back together again thereby hiding the shape of the whole. A way to get any arbitrary pronouncement you want out of the Bible.
This is why, I think they start the thing with a bunch of loaded language about the “whole bible”. They know it’s broken too but they’re bulling ahead anyway.
The 12 gates is the old covanent. Christianity is the new covanent.
It is. The Old Testament more than the new, but both suffer from both reinterpretation and hand copy errors. The former mostly just because it’s older.Hello BB - hello, glad you took an interest in mine post.
The reason for posting the video was to give clarity on where the word church comes from and it's original wording of Ekklesia meaning assembly in today's times IMO it doesn't hold the same understanding. The rest of the video is simply someones' interpretation, no different than any translated interpretation of any Bible. The Bible itself is an interpretation of earlier writings.
Are you referring to the Dead Sea scrolls?We actually have writing today going back to King David's reign.
..and translation of translations. Plus there’s the nicene convention of 400ad who’s politics deeply affected christian thought through today. That Christianity and Islam for that matter are products of classic Judaism is beyond doubt. Both appear to be based on the beliefs of their founders that Judaism had diverged from a path of righteousness over time. Christianity seems to take a big picture approach to repair, dispensing with many legalistic structures, while Islam maintains but attempts to reinterpret the structure of that law. Christianity in particular is hampered by limited and partial documentation. As a result attempts to follow its teachings in a literalistic manner are particularly prone to pitfalls. It is imho a particularly poor choice for attempts to build a literalistic belief system. It’s strength remains the big picture approach. Attempting to bolster literalistic Christian belief with Judaic writings can help a bit, but also hampers Christianity in its primary mission of attempting to achieve a wholistic view. Are Judaism, Islam, and Christianity at their heart all basically the same religion? Imho yes. Islam even refers to the three collectively as “the people of the book”. Viewing each in the terms of the others I feel does help in catching the errors that all the belief systems seem to have accrued, while ignoring them and treating one of the others as inherently false while delving exclusively and closely into just one simply creates more problems. They’re all partially broken in their own way. Part and parcel of attempting to teach chimps such as ourselves things we just aren’t well equipped to understand however much we need to.The earliest Hebrew scripture writings are the Khirbet Qeiyafa Inscription (11th–10th century BCE. Where Jesus and the apostles quoted from in its original tongue. What we have in the form of today's Bibles are translations in various languages.
It is. The Old Testament more than the new, but both suffer from both reinterpretation and hand copy errors. The former mostly just because it’s older.
Are you referring to the Dead Sea scrolls?
..and translation of translations. Plus there’s the nicene convention of 400ad who’s politics deeply affected christian thought through today. That Christianity and Islam for that matter are products of classic Judaism is beyond doubt. Both appear to be based on the beliefs of their founders that Judaism had diverged from a path of righteousness over time. Christianity seems to take a big picture approach to repair, dispensing with many legalistic structures, while Islam maintains but attempts to reinterpret the structure of that law. Christianity in particular is hampered by limited and partial documentation. As a result attempts to follow its teachings in a literalistic manner are particularly prone to pitfalls. It is imho a particularly poor choice for attempts to build a literalistic belief system. It’s strength remains the big picture approach. Attempting to bolster literalistic Christian belief with Judaic writings can help a bit, but also hampers Christianity in its primary mission of attempting to achieve a wholistic view. Are Judaism, Islam, and Christianity at their heart all basically the same religion? Imho yes. Islam even refers to the three collectively as “the people of the book”. Viewing each in the terms of the others I feel does help in catching the errors that all the belief systems seem to have accrued, while ignoring them and treating one of the others as inherently false while delving exclusively and closely into just one simply creates more problems. They’re all partially broken in their own way. Part and parcel of attempting to teach chimps such as ourselves things we just aren’t well equipped to understand however much we need to.
but also hampers Christianity in its primary mission of attempting to achieve a wholistic view..
Depends on what you mean by “break down”.Seems to me your trying to break down a belief system.
Agreed.In some ways, you might be right.
Though I'm a firm believer in the Bible as the Word of G-D. In those writings, it has been proven to me many times the "teacher is the Holy Spirit" not man. Though man can be a vessel used by G-D.
my information is that Muhammad initially attempted to join Judaism along with his followers but was rejected for what looked to me like primarily political concerns on the part of the Jewish leadership at that time. The primary one being that his group at the time was relatively large compared to the size of the whole of Judaism at that time. He then later became critical of Judaism and forged a different path. I am not a good student of the books of Islam either, and cannot speak to the specifics of how his dissent was worded. I am given to understand though that the Koran is not the only book from which Islamic theosophy is derived. It is merely considered the most accurate one. There are something like 8 other documents as well.As far as Islam goes I know little about it and have no interest in it. Though from my understanding Islam is clear in that it separates itself from Judaism at the birth of Abrahams two sons and the establishment of the Abrahamic covenant.
Like I said, law. The Books of Moses also have their own historical context to be considered.Where Judaism really gets its strenght from is the oral law and written five books of the law of Mosses.
I disagree about the documentation limitation. For one I said that it was the most limited. ALL the systems are. Judaism is limited by the mechanics of oral tradition and hand copying of documents, though Jewish scholars over the ages have done a masterful job of limiting that as much as possible.Christianity is not limited by documentation as you are saying. It has the same roots as judaism, oral and written law which are quoted in the New Testament by Jesus Himself and every one of the books in the NT.
This is true. There is A writing, consisting of a pot shard, that verifies the existence of Judaism to that time. I believe it is also just as important to Christians as it is to Jews.Like I pointed to in my last post we now have writtings from the 10th century BCE (the period of King David's reign). It is just as much about Judaism as it is about Christianity.
Iirc this forum is about vaping. This thread is about Christians who vape. I am one such Christian. An Episcopalian specifically. I just, like most Christians of the non literalist evangelical sects (well, all of them afaik) feel that the Bible should be viewed as a historical document. The concept that a particular group, while non the less guided by the Holy Spirit, has therefore created a perfect and error free version is therefore rejected. I do not believe they are valueless and/or that any of the “big three” are fundamentally wrongheaded. The errors that have been discovered so far are generally extremely small. Astonishingly so, really.If your looking to take apart Christianity this forum is not for you! I hope that is not your intentions.
Agreed, mostly. This is generally less true of the other “people of the book” and wasn’t true at all until the end of the 100 years war that so bloodied Europe.Whether a person who calls themself Christian and has a holistic view is an individual choice, who will have to give account of themselve's on the day of judgement until then we are free to choose are own paths
Huh? Are you referring to that as a continuum or a binary choice?whether it is materialism or of the Spirit..
More huh? That sounds like specialized language specific to your sect. I’m not at all sure what you mean by it. It is a biblical quote, but the way you drop it down on its lonesome and the general vagueness of the meaning suggests you have a meaning more specific than the words.I can only speak of myself - though I live in this world I am not of this world.
This may be your definition of the above phrase. Hard to tell if one defines the other though. Maybe just my reading of it.I try not to be concerned with material things though I admit its a challenge. If it wasn't so I wouldn't have a goal of being Christlike - Christian
Like “The Way” the way? The Way International - Wikipediathough prefer to call myself a follower of the way.
This may be your definition of the above phrase. Hard to tell if one defines the other though. Maybe just my reading of it.
Like “The Way” the way? The Way International - Wikipedia
There is also
Two by Twos - Wikipedia
They’re fairly similar theosophically, though one seems to collect a lot more money than the other.
If this is not the case you may want to choose another term to avoid confusion.
Both are widely considered to be controlling and abusive groups. The word “cult” is out of fashion now, but both were considered such before the term went out of fashion.
Wow that thing is long. That’s the problem with answers.com. It’s not just one answer, it’s every answer. Ever. By anyone. What I’m getting from the link is that the most popular belief is it was the first term used to describe what became Christians when the religion was in its infancy. Though it seems to lop off nearly the entirety of Christian thought for nearly 2000 years, including the better part of the New Testament. It’s practically pre-Christian, rather than Christian.I'll let this link do my explaining for me.
What are followers of Jesus called
To me, it's about G-D and what the Son of G-D's was willing to do. He is my example. Christlike is exactly what it implies to me the English translation is Christian it's an individual identification that hasn't lost its meaning to me. Actually, the religion of Jesus and the 12 was Judaism. It wasn't until years later when Paul corrected Peter in physical circumcision was not needed or should not be forced onto those who converted - conversion into the faith. That alone tells me the religion of the day was Judaism though we enter into the assembly/ekklesia by faith, its not a religion. Nothing has changed IMO in 2000 years but what man has put onto other men.Wow that thing is long. That’s the problem with answers.com. It’s not just one answer, it’s every answer. Ever. By anyone. What I’m getting from the link is that the most popular belief is it was the first term used to describe what became Christians when the religion was in its infancy. Though it seems to lop off nearly the entirety of Christian thought for nearly 2000 years, including the better part of the New Testament. It’s practically pre-Christian, rather than Christian.
I agree there. That Judaism was the religion of Jesus is not in question. At least to me. Or I suspect just about anyone else, though though hairs may be picked. They certainly didn’t agree with the customary official line of the Jewish establishment at the time.To me, it's about G-D and what the Son of G-D's was willing to do. He is my example. Christlike is exactly what it implies to me the English translation is Christian it's an individual identification that hasn't lost its meaning to me. Actually, the religion of Jesus and the 12 was Judaism. It wasn't until years later when Paul corrected Peter in physical circumcision was not needed or should not be forced onto those who converted - conversion into the faith. That alone tells me the religion of the day was Judaism
Most confusing sentence yet. Ekklesia appears to have a whole pile of different meanings both religious and non religious.though we enter into the assembly/ekklesia by faith, its not a religion.
Nothing is a big word. In those centuries a lot happened to human understanding of themselves, society, the way the world works, and even finding that potshard you mentioned. These in turn have each in its way changed humanity’s approach to God. History may not change a concept but it does change our understanding of that concept. Like it or not we are both a product of history. That understanding goes both up and down. That we now know more about how the world works for example fundamentally changed our understanding of genesis. Everyone thought that “day” meant “24 hour time period” an assumption about the vagaries of ancient languages. This made genesis suddenly “false” and the world went nuts. If a “day” in genesis is viewed as the modern word “age” suddenly everything makes sense again. Now, once we went looking, it turns out that the very oldest versions of the Torah use a word that can mean both day and age. Did God’s word change? No. But our understanding of those words did. Back and forth.Nothing has changed IMO in 2000 years but what man has put onto other men.
I agree there. That Judaism was the religion of Jesus is not in question. At least to me. Or I suspect just about anyone else, though though hairs may be picked. They certainly didn’t agree with the customary official line of the Jewish establishment at the time.
The council of pharacies did a whole lot more than that though. This was the point which Jesus was making. He didn’t defy the entirety of Judaism. The Jewish practice of the time wasn’t corrupt. It was corruptED. There’s the whole whipping the money lenders out of the temple for one. It’s one of the more famous and pyrotechnic, but by far the only one. Practically everything Jesus did annoyed the current establishment. They kept sending shills to try to trip him up so they could arrest him, but there was very narrow avoidance after very narrow avoidance. They finally had to smear him with something he didn’t actually say, and pay off one of his compatriots to give him up. This story is mostly what the Gospels are about. All four of them.It wasn't IMO that Jesus didn't agree He certainly did, after all, He said to do as they say but don't do as they do and they all including Jesus kept the Jewish feast days and Sabbath Holy. You can't get more establishment than that.
You do realize the people of those time were living by the law and the reason Jesus came into the world was to free man kind from the law. There was none rightuios.The council of pharacies did a whole lot more than that though. This was the point which Jesus was making. He didn’t defy the entirety of Judaism. The Jewish practice of the time wasn’t corrupt. It was corruptED. There’s the whole whipping the money lenders out of the temple for one. It’s one of the more famous and pyrotechnic, but by far the only one. Practically everything Jesus did annoyed the current establishment. They kept sending shills to try to trip him up so they could arrest him, but there was very narrow avoidance after very narrow avoidance. They finally had to smear him with something he didn’t actually say, and pay off one of his compatriots to give him up. This story is mostly what the Gospels are about. All four of them.
I think we just said more or less the same thing.You do realize the people of those time were living by the law and the reason Jesus came into the world was to free man kind from the law. There was none rightuios.
Eek! Someone else besides the two of us is reading this? My condolences and apologies. Theosophy is my shinyitis.So, @mightymen . What are you vaping?
Yeah, it did seem like a private conversation. I kinda felt like I was eavesdropping...but I enjoyed it and read every word!Eek! Someone else besides the two of us is reading this? My condolences and apologies. Theosophy is my shinyitis.
By all means. Vaping is a much more appropriate subject for a vaping forum.