Electric micro or nano pumps for juice feed mods!

[DoOrDie]

With today's micro technologies, isn't possible to integrate a super small micro or nano pump into a mod?

Obviously key considerations would be size, voltage, watt draw, and flow rate output.

I have seen some interesting ones in my quest to find one, like this:

http://www.csem.ch/docs/Show.aspx?id=12040

and this:

http://www.micropump.ca/pdf/micropump_mzr-2521.pdf

After messing with my own juice feeder mod with a squeezable bottle, the two biggest reasons I want to do this are:
1) consistency in flow rate across the atty
and
2) the instant elimination of flooding, both in the atty and in the mouth piece. With a pump like this that would activate as part of the circuit when you press the vape button, the e-juice would be trapped in a vacuum, and only that which was fed to the atty at a controlled rate could get out and atomize. Let off the switch, the pump stops, and no more juice can flow.
Someone has just got to do this!!! It would be the ultimate mod imo. With high mAh batteries, I don't see why the additional small current draw would be a problem.

I know someone around here has to of thought of this. They are using micro pumps like this in the medical field for controlled dose dispensing.

I even saw a youtube video of a special cloth they are using that when charged with a small voltage causes liquid to flow in one direction. I am seriously wondering whether that could be adapted to feed juice onto an atty. No pump needed. The flow rate necessary for vaping is so small it just might work!

 

[Max0819]

I've considerd the same thing. There are plenty of med devices and even toys, that use micro-nano-pumps. For thatmatter, maybe it's time to resurrect thta fluid dynamics text and look into it.

It really doesn't need a super high tech pump, a simple pump, or very slight pressure change (assuming limiits on viscosity). Wish I had more time on my hands.

But to go directly to your post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/49721-new-hot-modder-juice-box-germany.html

Don't know what ever happen to it though.

Perhaps a more exhaustive search will bring up even more examples?

Good Luck,

Max

 

[nicotime]

I think the cost and availability is more the problem than anything. It would be cool to have something like a pump that sprays a fine mist on a hot plate or coil, but that would take pressure and that takes energy to produce. I would love to experiment with one but no money to play!

 

[sanfordf]

I think the cost and availability is more the problem than anything. It would be cool to have something like a pump that sprays a fine mist on a hot plate or coil, but that would take pressure and that takes energy to produce. I would love to experiment with one but no money to play!

Or even better, would be one that just takes advantage of a difference in air pressure to pull juice to the atomizer. No moving or electrical parts!

 

[nicotime]

Or even better, would be one that just takes advantage of a difference in air pressure to pull juice to the atomizer. No moving or electrical parts!

Yep...tried that too in my "Finger Atty" experiments by using the venturi effect to pull fluid to the coil...but the fluid needs to be rather thinned.

 

[Max0819]

Use a continuous wire spring, wrapped to give consitent pressure over its length. Used as a 'pre-pressurizer', it could be screw adjustable for a range of viscosity.

Max

 

[Mr.Mad]

Love the juice pump idea.. find a cost effective pump and Im there. Did read the German post with bing translator.. that was fun. Anyway any US suppliers on the pump yet. I would love to build it just for the cool factor.

 

[Shad0w]

I have been looking at this as well for a week now.
So far the best options I have found that fit the spaces and would be able to pump a thicker fluid like PG/VG are some micro piezo-electric pumps. about 1/8" thick, square and the approximate size of a quarter.

 

[Max0819]

I have been looking at this as well for a week now.
So far the best options I have found that fit the spaces and would be able to pump a thicker fluid like PG/VG are some micro piezo-electric pumps. about 1/8" thick, square and the approximate size of a quarter.

So you gonna spill it, or is it top secret research?

Max

 

[v1John]

Here are some small pumps, some of them are adjustable to as low as 0 ml/min, and within 3 volt applications:

TCS Micro Pumps

Xavitech - Intelligent pumps

There are countless more, of course. Even if they're not used specifically to feed an atomizer coil, they could possibly be used to (re/)circulate ejuice to a cart/carto at the press of another ecig button.

 

[Shad0w]

So you gonna spill it, or is it top secret research?

Max

Sorry, totally forgot the link.

Ultra Low Power Micro-Pump products, buy Ultra Low Power Micro-Pump products from alibaba.com

Also, notice how just since YESTERDAY, they now list an e-cig as a use?

*edit*
They also removed the specs for form factor (and all others too...argh..) anyhow, it is also adjustable.
Perhaps another company that is US based carries a comparable product that can be more easily attained.

 

[beast775]

thanks for the link.i had a alibaba account but it was cancelled,a big electric scooter purchase went bad.im thinking these pumps will take to much energy.im thinking a small metal bladder will work,im working on one right now,from a 1886 oil tin mod.haha.im gonna get some pictures soon of the stuff ive been workin on.i need a camera.

 

[roadrash]

thanks for the link.i had a alibaba account but it was cancelled,a big electric scooter purchase went bad.im thinking these pumps will take to much energy.im thinking a small metal bladder will work,im working on one right now,from a 1886 oil tin mod.haha.im gonna get some pictures soon of the stuff ive been workin on.i need a camera.

i'm thinking of a primer pump, like on a lawnmower or chainsaw or weed whacker. have you worked on that at all? I'm a backyard mechanic, so i'm thinking that trying to install a heart pump is way beyond me.

 

[Mr.Mad]

Sorry, totally forgot the link.

Ultra Low Power Micro-Pump products, buy Ultra Low Power Micro-Pump products from alibaba.com

Also, notice how just since YESTERDAY, they now list an e-cig as a use?

*edit*
They also removed the specs for form factor (and all others too...argh..) anyhow, it is also adjustable.
Perhaps another company that is US based carries a comparable product that can be more easily attained.

looks great any idea on the price? BTW great work

 

[Max0819]

Interesting.

I guess we all use the search function is a similar fashion.

I have three pump manufact currently in my list, the same ones listed above.

On the others, you bet there are ways around and 'electric' pump. Though infrequent use of a few mA, won't tear up the batts too bad. Plus, its cool.

Using a 'primer bulb' wouldn't really get you any further than the current, 'squeeze the bottle' methods of delivery would it?

Other possability is simply lightly pressurize tank, and have a small vacuum valve that requires a light vaccuum (sucking) on the draw side. Though temperature may play a strong role in a sealed low pressure container.

Anyone know off hand how many millibars a light bit of draw (hate to say light sucking) on a an ecig is?

Also, I think everyone is always too concerned with "small" mod devices. Small comes after you have a working model. You can always work out how to shrink it and make it more efficient. But first you have to do it.

Max

 

[v1John]

I agree about making a working model first, then shrinking.

In the end, I really don't want to carry hundreds of ejuice drops in the heat of my ecig for days, I think a 70 or 80 drop reservoir should be enough, and helps keep a well balanced ecig (drops vs mah at 4.5volts vs size)

 

[Mr.Mad]

I just emailed the supplier for the above juice pump.. will respond back once I get a price. on

 

[DoOrDie]

I just emailed the supplier for the above juice pump.. will respond back once I get a price. on

Yep. Good. Prices on these things seem to be tough to come by, unless you contact the manufacturers. And if you are contacting the manufacturer, then chances are 1's and 2zees aren't going to fly. Minimum order of 500, 1000, or more will put these out of our reach for quite some time most likely.

But nevertheless, one thing someone needs to nail down is the flow rate we need in ml/min or ml/s, so that it can be calculated and discussed in design spec.

According to what I've read one drop= about .05 ml. Now if you figure on a decent hit at say 5 V, as a median point between 3.7 and 7.4 V, consuming about 2 drops over the period of say 3 seconds for the average hit- then we can come up with a guesstimate. But we need some starting point, and we can adjust from there.

If .05 ml= one drop then 2 drops = .1 ml over 3 seconds (roughly)
.1/3 sec= .033 ml/sec
or, times 60 = 1.98 ml/min

The trouble I had was finding a pump that could deliver that low a flow rate.

I repeat, these are just my guesses at a "starting point" flow rate. I would also guess the error rate here to be + or - about the same .05 ml. In other words, maybe it's 3 or 4 drops every 3 second, or maybe it's only 1 drop every three seconds. Not sure.

I'd be curious on your guy's opinions on this.

 

[Mr.Mad]

just found a video.. of the pump in action.. looks real good

Piezoelectric micro pumps - TAKASAGO-ELECTRIC - Dispensing pump then click on video.... fluid is transfered nice and slow... sweet


I gotta have one of these... actually I want 2

 

[DoOrDie]

just found a video.. of the pump in action.. looks real good

Piezoelectric micro pumps - TAKASAGO-ELECTRIC - Dispensing pump then click on video.... fluid is transfered nice and slow... sweet

Yeah, but it runs on 60v-240v...too much. Plus it pumps out a minimum of 3ml/min. think about that. 3 ml per minute. You have a 3 ml bottle? Well there it went, in one minute! Um, we gotta get this down....WAY down.

I think my flow rate guess was way off. Way too much. I think it's more like in the microliter range we need to be talking.

BUT...Thanks man for providing that link...Because those people do have a very interesting one here:

Solenoid Valve Manufacturer, Takasago - Product Development

"especially suited to devices operating on dry cells and lithium batteries"

Hmm. Just LOOK at the tiny size of that sucka!