eliquid testing.....can we even believe it now?

[Gauntlgrym]

well, after 5 pawns debacle, and liquid companies claiming the vapor shark tests were inaccurate.....can we even trust the test results companies provide?

after the 5pawns tests were released, 5pawns released tests that they did, that showed different numbers.
another example is cyclops vapor. high levels of AP were found in colossus, but cyclops said the test was not accurate. they then showed a test they did, that had different numbers.
others from the vapor shark tests said the same thing as well, and backed it up with tests.

so, nowadays.....even if a eliquid company provides test results, how are we to trust them?

obviously they can be untrue, or inaccurate. BOTH tests showing different results from a certified lab can't BOTH be right.

thoughts?

 

[dmska]

Really, if we care about the levels of da and ap in our liquid how are we supposed to know which result to believe? I Think the knee jerk reaction is to believe the independent tester, not the vendor who produces the liquid. I've seen some of these threads and once results are published, the vendor bashing begins. Even though we have no standardized tests or protocols in place. People assume the vendor is lying if they say they've tested and the results are different. The only way I know of from my reading, which can cause differing results for the same liquids if all other things are equal, is age of the test samples.

 

[Gauntlgrym]

agreed.

also, even if we don't have conflicting tests. how do we know that any test from any vendor is even accurate at this point?
if one vendor can fake a test, or send in a faulty sample to get the results they want....i'm sure everyone else can too.

it's sad that we can't even trust the tests that vendors post anymore

 

[puffon]

In one of Matts (suck my mod) vlogs, he said one vendor sent 3 samples to a lab,
each with a different name and CC#, all 3 came back with different results (same lab)
There needs to be some standardization..........

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

In one of Matts (suck my mod) vlogs, he said one vendor sent 3 samples to a lab,
each with a different name and CC#, all 3 came back with different results (same lab)
There needs to be some standardization..........

Did he say what lab, what juice and post the results?

 

[puffon]

Did he say what lab, what juice and post the results?

No, unfortunately.........

 

[WillyZee]

when the FDA regulates vaping to the choice of either BT tobacco or BT menthol ... we will soon forget about these amazing vape times we enjoy today.

vape on vaping on

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

when the FDA regulates vaping to the choice of either BT tobacco or BT menthol ... we will soon forget about these amazing vape times we enjoy today.

vape on vaping on

THE SKY IS FALLING....THE SKY IS FALLING

 

[GrandSam]

well, after 5 pawns debacle, and liquid companies claiming the vapor shark tests were inaccurate.....can we even trust the test results companies provide?

after the 5pawns tests were released, 5pawns released tests that they did, that showed different numbers.
another example is cyclops vapor. high levels of AP were found in colossus, but cyclops said the test was not accurate. they then showed a test they did, that had different numbers.
others from the vapor shark tests said the same thing as well, and backed it up with tests.

so, nowadays.....even if a eliquid company provides test results, how are we to trust them?

obviously they can be untrue, or inaccurate. BOTH tests showing different results from a certified lab can't BOTH be right.

thoughts?

Let's dissect this argument carefully. Pay close attention to the bolded portions. The following are things to consider, as they relate to the bolded quotes, respectively:

- Which companies tried to counter VS's results? I haven't looked into it, but taking a stab in the dark, can I safely assume that those companies were the ones whose Vapor Shark results were not to their liking? It's easy to attack someone's conclusion when it isn't the one that you wanted.

-So, an unbias source tested a liquid that was not theirs, and published their unbias results. Then, a biased company did it's "own test" and published results that were contradictory to the ones of the former. I'm inclined to accept the results of the company who does not produce the product for which they are testing. One may argue that the 2 are in competition, but if that were the case, wouldn't the former have published negative results for most of the companies whose juices they tested?

-Refer to 5Pawns argument.

-Which labs?

A final note to consider: It's not that difficult to mix up a batch of juice with ingredients that do not have the dangerous substance for which the lab will test for, and to send the modified batch to the lab. Last I checked, labs don't taste-test the juice in an attempt to verify that the juice they have received is actually the one that the company will be selling.

Disclaimer: All of the above are my personal opinion. Nothing stated is meant to be taken as fact. I am not saying that any of the unhappy companies fuged their results or made a fake batch of juice for testing purposes...but I am skeptical.

 

[Racehorse]

IMHO, testing is better than no testing. Even in the 5P results, if I'm not mistaken, (dont' have in front of me) the question concerning diketones was more about values, but the ones that DID have DA or AP in them showed that across all tests, just different values?

At least you get an IDEA of what eliquids may contain stuff you have decided not to vape. (if that is your decision).

There is a certain "good faith" effort on the part of any vendor who at least embarks on testing, IMHO. Even if they are forced into it

it's sad that we can't even trust the tests that vendors post anymore

I think it's sad that instead of putting $$ toward research and studying more about vaping safety, legal funds to fight local, regional anti-vaping regs, and banding together in an professional industry trade group to share resources, information, and ideas.........

....vendors are sponsoring race cars now.

I guess I have different priorities. glitz and glam, spin, sparkle and slick, and fancy web pages with hipster images just isn't as important to me as a consumer as my health and safety.

Of course, I say that as a consumer. Since I understand marketing and advertising, I see the other side too.

THE SKY IS FALLING....THE SKY IS FALLING

Actually, it isn't.

But people who quit smoking to be kinder to their lungs, and therefore having a *concern* over what they are inhaling, should not be denigrated.

They want a choice, just like you do.

I am careful about what I eat, what chemicals I use around the house, eat a ton more fruits and vegetables than I did a decade ago, and participate in aerobic and weight bearing exercise on a daily basis. Does that mean I think the sky is falling?

To me it is just called healthy self-respect.

 

[WharfRat1976]

well, after 5 pawns debacle, and liquid companies claiming the vapor shark tests were inaccurate.....can we even trust the test results companies provide?

after the 5pawns tests were released, 5pawns released tests that they did, that showed different numbers.
another example is cyclops vapor. high levels of AP were found in colossus, but cyclops said the test was not accurate. they then showed a test they did, that had different numbers.
others from the vapor shark tests said the same thing as well, and backed it up with tests.

so, nowadays.....even if a eliquid company provides test results, how are we to trust them?

obviously they can be untrue, or inaccurate. BOTH tests showing different results from a certified lab can't BOTH be right.

thoughts?

Have to wait for Uncle Sam to tell you.

 

[EverPresentNoob]

Im gonna chime in on the racing sponsorship... they are getting their name out in a well known venue. they are trying to get their name associated with something other than just the "Vaping Scene" and people who represent it like Rip Trippers. That said, I like Rip. He is funny as hell to watch. Kinda like the movie Dumb and Dumber... Now you take a person who has NO idea about vaping and show them a professional racing team, and then take another person adn show them a Rip Trippers vid.... Who do you think is going to have a more respectable view towards Vaping?

As to whos testing we can believe?? Honestly, Im not sure I believe any of them... I personally think this has been blown WAY out of proportion. Ok, some juices such as the old milky colored Cuttwood unicorn milk had legit concerns. Titanium Dioxide I believe it was... Definitely not something I want in any juice I use. But at this point do we even know if the minute amounts of DA and AP in current juice is going to be harmful? well even if it is, I'm betting its a touch less harmful than the 2-3 cigars and 6-7 pipes a day I used to smoke. So really, whats the point? If Im a juice maker Im going to send my own samples that I KNOW are clean to my own lab, and basically pay for the results that I want. If im a shop that doesnt like a certain brand, whose to say that I didnt add a flavoring or something that I KNOW has DA or AP in it and then send that sample to be tested to again ensure that I get the results that I want.

Now im not trying to say that this is what happened, Im just saying that it could be. I have seen things like this in the past in car enthusiast forums... That and Im going on hour 37 with out sleep... So I may just be touched in the head at this point.

 

[Wow1420]

I don't really care if one lab says 400 and another says 600, both results say the substance is present. Personally, I'm going to move on and find a liquid which tests out at 0 or "not detectable" if I think the substance being tested represents an avoidable risk.

 

[misterholidayhouse]

Just tipping my hat before this thread gets locked. I mentioned B&M's dropping 5P in a new thread last night and it was killed by morning. Apparently we are only allowed to discuss this subject once in a thread that went astray weeks ago..

 

[EverPresentNoob]

Just tipping my hat before this thread gets locked. I mentioned B&M's dropping 5P in a new thread last night and it was killed by morning. Apparently we are only allowed to discuss this subject once in a thread that went astray weeks ago..

yea, I think it was my comment that killed it...

 

[hertigg]

This is definitely something that the industry needs to work on. Standardized testing should be an absolute requirement.

 

[Bunnykiller]

DIY.... that way you know whats in your juice or better yet do a VG/PG/Nic base no flavors... yup its boring, but its safer

 

[Thundernoggin]

Im gonna chime in on the racing sponsorship... they are getting their name out in a well known venue. they are trying to get their name associated with something other than just the "Vaping Scene" and people who represent it like Rip Trippers. That said, I like Rip. He is funny as hell to watch. Kinda like the movie Dumb and Dumber... Now you take a person who has NO idea about vaping and show them a professional racing team, and then take another person adn show them a Rip Trippers vid.... Who do you think is going to have a more respectable view towards Vaping?

As to whos testing we can believe?? Honestly, Im not sure I believe any of them... I personally think this has been blown WAY out of proportion. Ok, some juices such as the old milky colored Cuttwood unicorn milk had legit concerns. Titanium Dioxide I believe it was... Definitely not something I want in any juice I use. But at this point do we even know if the minute amounts of DA and AP in current juice is going to be harmful? well even if it is, I'm betting its a touch less harmful than the 2-3 cigars and 6-7 pipes a day I used to smoke. So really, whats the point? If Im a juice maker Im going to send my own samples that I KNOW are clean to my own lab, and basically pay for the results that I want. If im a shop that doesnt like a certain brand, whose to say that I didnt add a flavoring or something that I KNOW has DA or AP in it and then send that sample to be tested to again ensure that I get the results that I want.

Now im not trying to say that this is what happened, Im just saying that it could be. I have seen things like this in the past in car enthusiast forums... That and Im going on hour 37 with out sleep... So I may just be touched in the head at this point.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to see Rip reviewing RDA's in a Metal Mulisha t-shirt. To me it's pretty much the same crowd. Rip would fit right in at the X-Games.

Right now the system is far from perfect with the different testing methods being used along with the ability to skew results. I agree with @Racehorse that having access to testing results is better than no results at all. I hope that over time that standards will be developed and accuracy will improve.

 

[Clo]

This is mainly why I started DIY, I choose what I want and don't depend on any company to tell me there's nothing to worry about with their liquid. Unfortunately I very much love the custardy flavors so when I am shopping around for flavors I'm looking at what's posted about what the flavor contains. I shop at Heartland Vapes wholesale because they are local and I can go pick up my supplies, BUT they post on each flavor and say if there are diketones in that particular flavor so I have the choice to take that chance or move on to another flavor that doesn't have any. The fact that they do tell you which flavors have these substances says a lot to me, they could choose not to put that information on their site and lead people to believe those flavors are diketone free, but they don't. This works for me, but everyone is different in the choice they make and what they are comfortable with. I think it is important for people to be informed of what they are vaping, and then be able to choose whether they want that product or not, but the question of whether companies are being honest or not does cross my mind with everything I'm looking at. But for now, being able to choose my separate ingredients and just make it myself makes me the most comfortable with my vaping experience.

 

[skoony]

-So, an unbias source tested a liquid that was not theirs, and published their unbias results. Then, a biased company did it's "own test" and published results that were contradictory to the ones of the former. I'm inclined to accept the results of the company who does not produce the product for which they are testing. One may argue that the 2 are in competition, but if that were the case, wouldn't the former have published negative results for most of the companies whose juices they tested?

we need not worry about unbiased testing. the FDA is working on that right now.
i am sure their purity standards an requirements will meet and exceed everyone's
widest expectations.

Titanium Dioxide

titanium dioxide poses no threat at the consumer level.
it is used openly and freely. from artist making their own paint to that
guy putting the markings on the football field.
it is however a risk at the industrial level when used in large
quantities such as making cement,paint in production volumes,
mining,processing,packing and so forth. the same precautions
such as those used with silica sand should be used.
regards
mike