Virgin Vapor - Diacetyl

[JeansV]

I am a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything from Virgin Vapor on this.

A number of outfits have started posting their results. A vendor that stresses 'organic', vegan, GMO-free and other health-related adjectives on every marketing piece as much as Virgin Vapor surely should have made this a priority.
On their subforum here they were asked about this issue a few years back and have yet to respond with some numbers.

Rumors have it that Virgin Vapor has been preparing third party tests in 2015. Is that true? Where are they?
I am wondering if all this 'certified organic' flavors have not protected Virgin Vapor from diketones. And now they are scrambling to explain that all this 'organic' stuff hasn't really made a difference.

 

[sig-cmt]

Ask them again. Or shoot them an email pointing them to this post.

 

[sparkky1]

I am a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything from Virgin Vapor on this.

A number of outfits have started posting their results. A vendor that stresses 'organic', vegan, GMO-free and other health-related adjectives on every marketing piece as much as Virgin Vapor surely should have made this a priority.
On their subforum here they were asked about this issue a few years back and have yet to respond with some numbers.

Rumors have it that Virgin Vapor has been preparing third party tests in 2015. Is that true? Where are they?
I am wondering if all this 'certified organic' flavors have not protected Virgin Vapor from diketones. And now they are scrambling to explain that all this 'organic' stuff hasn't really made a difference.

'certified organic' flavors "if that's truly what they used" would have naturally forming diketone analogues in them, probably a pretty good reason they have no certifications for lab reports......

 

[93gc40]

You do realize that Diacetyl is a Natural, Organic, compound found in VEGATABLE matter. This means is more likely to occur in organic vegan natural product than synthetic product. Besides the fact that this is a HYPED risk in the first place. Testing is expensive.... We are testing our favorite suppliers Out-of-business. Did it ever occur to anyone that our propaganda influenced fear go to kill the vape industry faster than regulation ever will.

STOP believing studies......... they are for the most part bogus. Take climate, coffee, wine and beer.. How many studies in just the last year have been released?? Each contradicting the results of the one released prior????

 

[retired1]

You do realize that Diacetyl is a Natural, Organic, compound found in VEGATABLE matter. This means is more likely to occur in organic vegan natural product than synthetic product. Besides the fact that this is a HYPED risk in the first place. Testing is expensive.... We are testing our favorite suppliers Out-of-business. Did it ever occur to anyone that our propaganda influenced fear go to kill the vape industry faster than regulation ever will.

STOP believing studies......... they are for the most part bogus. Take climate, coffee, wine and beer.. How many studies in just the last year have been released?? Each contradicting the results of the one released prior????

If you were inhaling your natural, organic compound that was found in vegetable matter, then yes, the warnings would still apply.

There's a huge difference between ingesting and inhaling.

 

[Pete54]

I've avoided getting involved in this subject for several months because it has become a no win argument, like religion and politics. I'll just add a few points.
Testing is not expensive. $125.00 per juice. Profit margins are very high in e-liquid. That would equal the profit in selling about ten 30ml bottle of juice!
No one is telling anyone what ingredients to use in the manufacturing of a company's E-Liquid. They simply want disclosure so they can make an informed choice.
If you feel that the whole diketone thing is way overblown, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and can buy whatever juice you want.
If you believe climate change is the result of "bogus" studies, welcome to the Republican party.

 

[93gc40]

If you believe climate change is the result of "bogus" studies, welcome to the Republican party.

Science can't accurately predict the weather for tomorrow. Why, must we believe "science" when it predicts the Climate years in the future or the dangers of vaping? It's easier to list the things Science has been wrong about than proved.. So yeah I feel the diketone thing is overblown.

If you believe that 200 years or so of industry, has or had anything to do with a climate that has been changing for Billions of years....... Explain how, the Great Lakes are lakes and the Sahara became a desert.. Which humans caused that? It was much colder, at least in the US 10000 years ago, and much warmer with much higher Carbon levels in the atmosphere, further in the past. Sure pollution is a bad thing....... Pollution we can and should fix.... I do prefer a blue sky and clean water. The climate on the other hand, is something we (life) must ADAPT to, WE can not do anything to change it. We, are not gods. It was changing long before we "evolved" and will continue changing long after we go extinct. Been going on this way for Billions of years, long before we showed up 25-50 thousand years ago. Hopefully we can evolve enough in the future to adapt.

Science - Religion - Politics, each defined by the others.

 

[seebo]

If you believe climate change is the result of "bogus" studies, welcome to the Republican party.

did you know back in the last ice age, more than half the USA was covered in a mile of ice? 10,000 years ago there wasn't automobiles/factories to have cause all that ice to melt. "climate change" occurs naturally without human intervention, Al Gore.

 

[ZCAR1]

You're a funny guy Pete.
You've swallowed the Global Warming Con, yet you live at sea level.

 

[retired1]

Keep it on topic folks.

 

[retired1]

I am a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything from Virgin Vapor on this.

A number of outfits have started posting their results. A vendor that stresses 'organic', vegan, GMO-free and other health-related adjectives on every marketing piece as much as Virgin Vapor surely should have made this a priority.
On their subforum here they were asked about this issue a few years back and have yet to respond with some numbers.

Rumors have it that Virgin Vapor has been preparing third party tests in 2015. Is that true? Where are they?
I am wondering if all this 'certified organic' flavors have not protected Virgin Vapor from diketones. And now they are scrambling to explain that all this 'organic' stuff hasn't really made a difference.

I just went and searched in their forum.

Question on products

They have responded to this issue.

 

[JeansV]

They have responded to this issue.

Thanks for that. I meant they haven't replied with numbers (or actual proof that anything they say is valid).

For me it's really about knowing if vendors are taking the appropriate professional care of their production process.
The diketone issue gave us an opportunity to really see if vendors are willing to go the extra mile and show they are serious about making their product safe. And this is my main concern: I want the glass bottle, I want the batch number, I want the manufacture date and the warning label and the childproof cap. And I want the vendor to test their final product. Not because I care about it all that much (I don't even have children), but because I want to have the feeling that you take your business serious and are a conscientious. In an unregulated environment we have to be informed consumers.

 

[retired1]

I meant they haven't replied with numbers (or actual proof that anything they say is valid).

Yet, your original question was:

I am a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything from Virgin Vapor on this.

They have responded to the issue. If you want more information, you need to ask them directly.

 

[sparkky1]

Thanks for that. I meant they haven't replied with numbers (or actual proof that anything they say is valid).

For me it's really about knowing if vendors are taking the appropriate professional care of their production process.
The diketone issue gave us an opportunity to really see if vendors are willing to go the extra mile and show they are serious about making their product safe. And this is my main concern: I want the glass bottle, I want the batch number, I want the manufacture date and the warning label and the childproof cap. And I want the vendor to test their final product. Not because I care about it all that much (I don't even have children), but because I want to have the feeling that you take your business serious and are a conscientious. In an unregulated environment we have to be informed consumers.

So you were ok with just a cancer label warning on cigarettes with 697 different known toxic cancer causing chemicals but now ejuice manufactures eliminate 690 toxic chemicals, 2 of which diketones are 100 times higher in cigarettes and you demand a more serious business ?
Are you advocating risk reduction or risk elimination ? are you certain your diketone free, glass bottle, batch number, childproof, warning label juice is a safer alternative ? and are you compiling scientific data testing (not from Harvard) from the same 800 pounds of diketones per year, per popcorn factory employee flavoring mixer yield to your atomizer per ml ?
BT is not your friend !

 

[Racehorse]

So you were ok with just a cancer label warning on cigarettes with 697 different known toxic cancer causing chemicals but now ..........<snip> ....... you demand a more serious business ?

Sparkky, with all due respect, many vapers do not accept the same things they accepted with cigarettes.

That is why they don't smoke anymore.

The constant comparison to smoking is setting the bar VERY low for many vapers. Extremely low.

Many people switch to vaping because they do demand "better" for themselves. We're *worth* it.

We are testing our favorite suppliers Out-of-business.

harldly. It costs about one month's advertising budget for a vape store to test most of their in-house flavors.

I meant they haven't replied with numbers

I want the glass bottle, I want the batch number, I want the manufacture date and the warning label and the childproof cap. And I want the vendor to test their final product.

Look, it's a simple consumer issue. Eliquid is a very competitive market and you will have no problem finding vendors who are able to meet your requirements.

If you subscribe to what Dr. Farsalinos said, without a test result, you can't know the numbers, I suggest there are more than enough ejuice manufacturers now who do provide test results, dates, glass bottles, etc.

Just take your $$ elsewhere and stop being *disappointed*.

You ask a question, you don't like the answer.......move on.

 

[sparkky1]

Sparkky, with all due respect, many vapers do not accept the same things they accepted with cigarettes.

That is why they don't smoke anymore.

The constant comparison to smoking is setting the bar VERY low for many vapers. Extremely low.

Many people switch to vaping because they do demand "better" for themselves. We're *worth* it.




harldly. It costs about one month's advertising budget for a vape store to test most of their in-house flavors.







Look, it's a simple consumer issue. Eliquid is a very competitive market and you will have no problem finding vendors who are able to meet your requirements.

If you subscribe to what Dr. Farsalinos said, without a test result, you can't know the numbers, I suggest there are more than enough ejuice manufacturers now who do provide test results, dates, glass bottles, etc.

Just take your $$ elsewhere and stop being *disappointed*.

You ask a question, you don't like the answer.......move on.

Who told you heating and inhaling artificial flavoring was harmless ? do you realize how many hundreds of gallons of one hit wonder and 5 pawns, suicide bunny (let alone the straight up McCormick flavoring DIY'ers McCormick Extracts?) that have been sold and sub ohmed in the last two to three years with a much higher ppm NIOSH safety level than even factory workers inhaled.
With all do respect, don't you think a person that truly "demands better (or even truly cares) for themselves" would at least monitor their heath every six months with a spirometry test because their "worth it" ? rather than just jump on the "demand better" fear monger wagon ..............please show me "one" scientific study that shows vaping diketone free juice is even remotely "safer"

 

[Racehorse]

With all do respect, don't you think a person that truly "demands better (or even truly cares) for themselves" would at least monitor their heath every six months with a spirometry test because their "worth it"

that's actually a good idea.

.....please show me "one" scientific study that shows vaping diketone free juice is even remotely "safer"

It's all "opinion" at this point, Sparkky. Dr. F did have some concerns.

But here's the bottom line: A consumer has every right to know about a product they are inhaling. I can tell you I've dropped some pretty serious $$ with ejuice vendors over the years. That is really all many people whose "opinion" is that they do NOT want to vape diketones.

THAT shouldn't turn into a debate. I ask the same thing of my pet food manufacturer, my pharmacist re: medications, and I read food labels and if they are not clear I call the manufacturer.

Darn straight I have a right to ASK these things.

I just think it's funny when vendors stonewall by not *really* answering. It's like getting the brush off. I personally wouldn't deal with a vendor like that.

anyway, that has been MY stance all along.....transparency to the consumer, who is purchasing a product. I don't care who vapes diketones. I don't even care if they're in 95% of eliquid.

Some people want to vape the 5% that DOESN'T have it.

 

[Racehorse]

Who told you heating and inhaling artificial flavoring was harmless ? do you realize how many hundreds of gallons of one hit wonder and 5 pawns, suicide bunny (let alone the straight up McCormick flavoring DIY'ers McCormick Extracts?) that have been sold and sub ohmed in the last two to three years

Remind me again how many years it took to determine/assess bodily damage from cigarettes.

I'm pretty sure it was more than two to three years, wasn't it?

I don't think anything is harmless. That is why I am always looking to reduce my risk, and practice the best "harm reduction" that I can get to. And, as a consumer, I am going to make those decisions based on what I think is best for ME.

 

[Racehorse]

No one is telling anyone what ingredients to use in the manufacturing of a company's E-Liquid. They simply want disclosure so they can make an informed choice

Bingo.


Frankly, I don't think it MATTERS what somebody wants to vape or not vape. What matters is the consumer has access to information about what they are inhaling, and if they ask specifically for that information, you don't just "make up" an answer without being able to prove it.

That is exactly how lawsuits end up happening. You make claims about your product, and then somebody calls you on it, now you have to prove your claims.

to me asking about diketones is not different than asking if a juice contains CINNAMON flavoring. Which burns my mouth and throat and which I cnanot vape. so I'm told no, there is no cinnamon, and then I receive eliquid WITH cinnamon flavoring.

Yet, every single time on this forum that somebody simply ASKS to see if there are diketones in the eliquid they are paying good money for, it turns into a debate.

It's interesting because so many vapers are always talking about our *rights*......but don't seem to think the vaping consumer has any rights at all.

 

[440BB]

Here's the response from the thread Retired1 linked to above

Absolutely no Diacetyl, Acetion, Acetyl Propionyl and/or derivatives of these are in any of our organic e-liquids.

As with most any claim a vendor makes, they should be able to back it up. I hope a direct request gets an explanation.