eliquids - china or US?

[genuinefraud]

I see different vendors who sell PG and VG, and even distinguish between US and Chinese liquids.

What are the differences between the US and chinese products?

So far, I have only tried 2 flavors of PG liquid, and both appear to be from China.

 

[mwa102464]

In short, there are differences in a couple of things, all the Nic is coming out of China, but there is a BIG difference in the extraction processes and some Nic juice is way better than others. I've seen Nic juice that is brown and taste like Bat shyt that is used in some mixes then I have seen Nic juice that is clear as water, much purer (99.7-99.9%) and excellent which makes a huge difference to me in other juices. Secondly I would have to say the flavorings are also different from the ones used in China to the ones used here in the US. US mixers are using Flavourart.it, PA, Lorranns, seedmans, and so on and the Chinese are using something else for there flavorings. Then it comes down to the people mixing your juice, there are different styles of mixing and that makes a big difference as well, there some of the differences between the Chinese juice and the USA juice.

 

[Hrtbrkr1965]

Have tried both and don't have a preference to one or the other but see many people who do!
Started making my own DIY and prefer to not pay the markup for juice now! So I guess my juice is usa juice as I mix it right here in Indiana LOL (other than the fact my Nic probably came from china)

 

[Hrtbrkr1965]

Doublel Post!

 

[dormouse]

If you don't want Chinese juices just don't buy juices that only come in 100% VG or 100% PG unless they say they are US juices. If a vendor offers the same juice flavors in PG, VG or a PG/VG blend then those should be fine. The Chinese juices are 100% PG and they offer some 100% VG.

I don't like 100% juices anyway. I like the blends. My favorite mix is 70pg/30vg.

 

[jlarsen]

Since most or all of the nic comes from China, there isn't much a vaper can do about that. But IMO, while there is no guarantee a U.S. manufacturer (mixer) isn't re-labeling less expensive Chinese juices, or using non-USP grade PG/VG and FEMA/GRAS approved flavorings (despite what they might claim on their label or website) - I think it is more likely that a U.S. mixer is going to be purchasing those higher quality components which are readily available here at reasonable cost.

U.S. manufacturers of PG, VG, and flavorings are going to be producing an approved product. A U.S. mixer would have to somewhat go out of their way to order cheaper components from China, as well as the nic, to be producing an inferior quality product at a lower cost. Likewise a Chinese manufacturer is probably not importing U.S. components when cheaper substitutes are abundantly available in China, and cost is the driving force for consumers choosing Chinese imports over domestic mixes.

China has a history of substituting toxic chemicals for safer ones in order to cut costs. This includes recent exports of VG tainted with deadly levels of toxic substances, leading to consumer deaths (in Panama).

I personally would either purchase from a U.S. manufacturer using USP grade PG/VG, or DIY, than take a risk on Chinese juices.

 

[banjo]

I began vaping DeKang juices from China, and they were excellent. Also, when I began DIY, I ordered HC flavors and juices from China. I never experienced any problems with them & found the quality & consistency to be very good. I now buy most of my juices & flavors from US sources, but would not hesitate to recommend juices & flavors from China - just buy from a reputable supplier. I use HealthCabin, and have found their service to be first rate - usually 6 to 8 days shipping to the US.

 

[genuinefraud]

I guess I will be looking into the making and blending of my own eliquids.. somewhere in the near future

 

[The Rebel]

What are the differences between the US and chinese products?

One is made in a sterile controlled laboratory environment by a certifed company using certified materials.

The other is made in someone's kitchen, or basement, or spare bedroom, or garage.

 

[swedishfish]

Wow, someone's PR is sure paying off.

Certified by whom? Sorry I worked in labs. It takes a little more to impress me regarding lab conditions than a UTube of a bunch of women in hairnets. I assume all those contaminated, led filled products were also made in lab environments with people wearing hairnets.

 

[jlarsen]

One is made in a sterile controlled laboratory environment by a certifed company using certified materials.

The other is made in someone's kitchen, or basement, or spare bedroom, or garage.

Yes, at least one Chinese vendor is working out of a state of the art cleanroom. At least one U.S. vendor is also doing the same. Do all Chinese manufacturers do so? Nobody knows. Which Chinese manufacturer does so? Nobody knows.

At least the one U.S. manufacturer that mixes their product in a similarly sterile environment is known, and the product can be traced back to that facility.

Can someone purchasing a chinese liquid know that the product they are buying is coming from the sterile environment shown in the video? NO.

Do all U.S. manufacturers work in a sterile laboratory environment - probably not. Are they more likely to be using USP grade ingredients than their chinese counterparts? Yes.

In that state-of-the-art Chinese manufacturing facility, are the techs using USP grade glycerol, or are they substituting the same chinese manufactured diethylene glycol for VG, like what killed 100 Panamanians (in order to cut costs)?

 

[jlarsen]

Wow, someone's PR is sure paying off.

Certified by whom? Sorry I worked in labs. It takes a little more to impress me regarding lab conditions than a UTube of a bunch of women in hairnets. I assume all those contaminated, led filled products were also made in lab environments with people wearing hairnets.

Certified by the same Chinese government agency that allowed a Chinese vendor to substitute DEG for VG in an order shipped to a Panamanian toothpaste manufacturer (intentionally - to cut costs), resulting in the death of 100 Panamanians? Possibly.

I'm sure even DEG and other poisons are produced in state-of-the art clean rooms.

 

[The Rebel]

Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd- ISO9001:2000 certified

Link to certs for flavoring certified by SGS, one of the largest certification enties on the planet.

Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.

Now don't get me wrong, I fully support all the US made juice manufacturers, but until there are strict safety regulations in place there is nothing to stop someone from sitting in their living room watching Oprah and mixing up juices to be sold over the internet.

 

[swedishfish]

Exactly. They certify themselves.

I'm not saying that chinese juice is bad or terrible. But when I hear the whole 'it's made in a lab' argument- there aren't enough eyerolls.

Remember all this?

Epoch Times | Tainted Products Continue to Flow out of China

Tainted Chinese Imports Common - washingtonpost.com


Like I said, I worked in labs. Some pretty nasty labs.

 

[jlarsen]

One is made in a sterile controlled laboratory environment by a certifed company using certified materials.

The other is made in someone's kitchen, or basement, or spare bedroom, or garage.

Which U.S. importer(s) sells ejuices manufactured in the specific lab in the youtube video? Does that lab use USP grade PG/VG?

I'm less concerned with a speck of dust or a hair in my ejuice than I am with the quality of the main ingredients.

I'm sure some top quality juices come out of China, along with some that are questionable or downright dangerous ones. Which is which, and where can I order the safe ones? What are their brand names? Where are they importing their USP grade PG and VG from (assuming they even use USP grade)?

I can purchase USP grade VG at WalMart 0.5 miles from my house. Where do the Chinese get theirs? If it's so accessible to them, then why send DEG in lieu of VG to manufacturers in Panama, killing consumers?

Johnson Creek manufactures their products in a similar environment, and if a distributor is selling JC, you know where it came from. If someone is buying a product with virtually no label information, even if one Chinese manufacturer is producing a top quality product, who is selling that product, and who is selling a tainted knock off?

You can't assume because of a youtube video and one Chinese manufacturer producing in a sterile lab, that all chinese juice is safe. What about juices being made in a Chinese basement, kitchen, or garage... out of PV and VG of unknown origin... in a country where USP grade is not the norm, and that has a reputation for exporting tainted products and causing deaths worldwide?

 

[jlarsen]

Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd- ISO9001:2000 certified

Link to certs for flavoring certified by SGS, one of the largest certification enties on the planet.

Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.

Now don't get me wrong, I fully support all the US made juice manufacturers, but until there are strict safety regulations in place there is nothing to stop someone from sitting in their living room watching Oprah and mixing up juices to be sold over the internet.

There's also nothing to prevent a Chinese mom-and-pop operation from doing the same. At least an amateur here in the U.S. is far more likely to be getting USP grade components, as they are readily available at local pharmacies and grocery stores.

Specifically, which importers, distributors, vendors, etc. sell juice produced by Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd?

If you don't believe that China has a reputation for poisoning consumers internationally, tell it to the 100 dead Panamanians that died brushing their teeth, dead Korean babies that died drinking formula, dead U.S. dogs and cats that died eating pet foods, and sick Americans that were poisoned by their drywall.

If you know of a recent event where 100 or more people died because an American VG manufacturer switched DEG for VG, I'm all ears.

 

[The Rebel]

Maybe this would be a good read.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ufacturer-supply-over-90-e-liquid-market.html

I'm not here to trade punches jlarsen, just throwing out facts. I can find nothing that ties Dekang to any of those incidents you listed. In fact, I can find nothing negative in Dekang's history to suggest they may be using anything but high grade materials. You managed to single out ONE domestic juice manufacturer that uses some QC in their operation. There are still plenty of other ones out there that make no such claims and continue to sell their products.

In the end, it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. For me, being a quality engineer for the last 20 years, I like to take the 'show me" approach to quality.

 

[jlarsen]

I just went to Dekang's website. It seems that they have websites for their distributors in Belgium, China, Russia, and Thailand, but not for the U.S. Other than that, they have plenty of information on their products, but no direction on how to go about ordering them.

I even IM'd their sales staff, but I still can't get information on where Dekang liquid is sold in the U.S. I don't know how a U.S. consumer could be guaranteed that they are getting legitimate Dekang products and not a cheap and un-certified knockoff, or even if real Dekang juices are sold in the U.S.

Dekang has become something like a slang for any inexpensive Chinese liquid, akin to "Kleenex" being used for any brand of facial tissue - even if I trusted Dekang, I'm not sure I could trust an online vendor claiming to sell Dekang juice.

 

[Mountain Mike]

Personally, I buy only USA juice. Remember the pet and baby food from China? Do I need to say more.
Good luck.

 

[MNG]

One is made in a sterile controlled laboratory environment by a certifed company using certified materials.

The other is made in someone's kitchen, or basement, or spare bedroom, or garage.

Just to be certain, is the implication that Chinese juice is sterile or vice versa?