eliquids - china or US?

[wv2win]

Maybe I should not have used the word regualted, that's not what I meant. I do not think their should be ANy governement involvment in eliquid company development in the US. I think there should be as many eutrapenuers out there as possible, trying to create small businesses. The cost of liability insurance is Not the reason why businesses are failing right now, shows your ignorance. It's the tax's on small business owners right now who did not register their business "correctly" before certain tax seasons. Small business's don't even have a chance right now, not gonna get into that. The whole point is is that when you are browsing through websites that seams so enticing to buy e-juice from, and their site seems so professional, then they send you poisened juice; that is mis-advertising and very dangerous. Your not selling clothing a car or other goods that do not claim good for you, your'e selling a substance that people inahle all day into their lungs, which is supposed to be a healtheir alternative. When you are selling a healthier alternative, you better make sure that it is what you say. If people were allowed to just sell people crap in the US that makes there consumers sick, and get away with it, America would not be the country it is today, (well not today but 10 years ago). We do not need government to come in and regulate our e-juices, we need to keep small business owners in check OURSELVES and make sure they are accountable for their products. And as for the woman who sued McD's for spilling hot coffee oon herself, I think it's ridiculous but give her lawyer MAJOR props for pulling it off and holding them accountable without government regulations on coffee tempatures. That's why having the right to confront business owners, sue them and make them accountable, is a good and needed thing.

I am a small business owner and know exactly how costly liability insurance is and how it goes up constantly because of people like you who applaud fraudulent lawsuits and the lawyers who bring them. You spit out lies about a product that has not been shown to hurt anyone and try to scare others into not using the product, thus hurting some of the better PV suppliers. You are the bottom dwellers who look for any opportunity to gut a business if it will provide you a financial wind-fall. I am not suprised that you never addressed the fact that PV's were not invented in this country but instead were invented in China. Why risk the liability when there are parasites like you just waiting to file a lawsuit at the first opportunity. You have never run a business and have neither the fortitude or integrity to do so based on your comments. Your attitude is a big part of the decline in this country and why product costs continue to climb.

 

[Morgythekilla]

I am a small business owner and know exactly how costly liability insurance is and how it goes up constantly because of people like you who applaud fraudulent lawsuits and the lawyers who bring them. You spit out lies about a product that has not been shown to hurt anyone and try to scare others into not using the product, thus hurting some of the better PV suppliers. You are the bottom dwellers who look for any opportunity to gut a business if it will provide you a financial wind-fall. I am not suprised that you never addressed the fact that PV's were not invented in this country but instead were invented in China. Why risk the liability when there are parasites like you just waiting to file a lawsuit at the first opportunity. You have never run a business and have neither the fortitude or integrity to do so based on your comments. Your attitude is a big part of the decline in this country and why product costs continue to climb.

Haha you are very wrong.. I own two businesses, an electrical contracting and a spray tanning... Sorry bud, you have no idea what your talking about, good hate speach though, a little angry? lol, you make no sense and put things together that arent even there.. Sorry if I hurt your feelings which I obviously did because you ranted on.. A gOOD busniess owner knows how to delegate and stay emotionally detached for the most part. You obviously know nothing of the economy right now, and that "cost liability insurance" has absolutly nothing to do with it. Why would someone sue you if your product was good?? I know your not a small business owner because you waould have mentioned taxes and definitly not liability insurance... That is the lamest thing I have heard today.

 

[The Rebel]

Probably all a moot point now that the FDA has lost their bid to regulate ecigarettes as a drug-delivery device. But they will regulate it as a tobacco product, so I imagine some of those regulations will affect the basement/homemade mixers in the US. Time will tell....

 

[SAG]

Wow, just wow! No wonder we're such a mess in this country.I was just reading this blog to get some opinions on China vs USA. Without regulation, can't USA juices claim whatever they want, like China?

 

[wv2win]

Haha you are very wrong.. I own two businesses, an electrical contracting and a spray tanning... Sorry bud, you have no idea what your talking about, good hate speach though, a little angry? lol, you make no sense and put things together that arent even there.. Sorry if I hurt your feelings which I obviously did because you ranted on.. A gOOD busniess owner knows how to delegate and stay emotionally detached for the most part. You obviously know nothing of the economy right now, and that "cost liability insurance" has absolutly nothing to do with it. Why would someone sue you if your product was good?? I know your not a small business owner because you waould have mentioned taxes and definitly not liability insurance... That is the lamest thing I have heard today.

Based on your less than "informed" comments, I can't believe you run anything but your mouth. Taxes in Georgia are reasonable and are equal for all businesses of kind, so that is not an problem. Something you would understand if you really ran a business. My businesses are construction and property inspection. Liability insurance is a major issue for all of us in this field and is discussed at all of our association meetings. There are too many low lifes who file fraudulent law suits like you, which increases liability insurance each year. Your love of fraudulent litigation is part of the problem in this country and you are obviously too immature to understand how it affects us all. Maybe you should try "reading" more or at least watch the news (more to your level) as Fox News has done several reports on the problem in the last six months. And I will state again, personal vaporizers would have been invented in the US instead of China if it wasn't for people like you who look for every opportunity to sue in this country.

 

[samuraijill]

seemed like a good place to ask if anyone has an opinion about RockStarVapors e liquid; I'd like to place an order but would like an opinion from the forums about their quality/safety first!

 

[swedishfish]

seemed like a good place to ask if anyone has an opinion about RockStarVapors e liquid; I'd like to place an order but would like an opinion from the forums about their quality/safety first!

If your first concern is quality/safety, I'd suggest getting into DIY. Then you know exactly what's in your juice, because you put it in there. I'm fine with the juice I buy. I read tons of great reviews by other members and get excellent service. But then again, I smoked cigarettes with about 4,000 chemicals before I vaped.

 

[wv2win]

If your first concern is quality/safety, I'd suggest getting into DIY. Then you know exactly what's in your juice, because you put it in there. I'm fine with the juice I buy. I read tons of great reviews by other members and get excellent service. But then again, I smoked cigarettes with about 4,000 chemicals before I vaped.

+1, excellent points.

 

[jlarsen]

Wow, just wow! No wonder we're such a mess in this country.I was just reading this blog to get some opinions on China vs USA. Without regulation, can't USA juices claim whatever they want, like China?

Sure they can. But unlike China, the U.S. hasn't had recent problems with deaths related to tainted products, including DEG passed of as VG in bulk by Chinese suppliers to cut costs. Someone in the U.S. can get safe components at their local drugstore, and would have to go out of their way to get them from China. A Chinese manufacturer is more likely to end up with tainted Chinese components.

The chances are very small of course, but still, it's a chance. Especially when fly-by-night online vendors sell juice they label "Dekang", but few offer proof that what they are selling comes from the Dekang factory, and not a Chinese basement, Dekang being basically slang for inexpensive juice of unknown origin.

The FDA ruling that ecigs will be regulated as tobacco products will probably improve the situation. There will be fewer Chinese mom and pop shops allowed to import into a regulated industry. Of course many will continue to ship to the states illegally.

 

[revolverfunk]

personally prefer the US made pg/vg mix at ratio of 70/30.

 

[Empress Kitty]

personally prefer the US made pg/vg mix at ratio of 70/30.

I agree. Also may I add a few things:

1) The supplier I use imports the nic from Belgium not China and all other ingredients are American.

2) Morgy and Wv both of you have valid points, and the hostility in unnecessary IMO

Wv- She isn't in Ga so her taxes are not the same as yours

Morgy- His taxes in GA are lower so liability insurance is more of a concern to him

To both of you: Lawsuits are important recourse for people harmed by a product or service. That said, frivolous lawsuits do more harm than good. A friend of my parents had to pay a robber a crap load of money when he cut himself while robbing their home. That is wrong! Justified lawsuits are necessary and a good thing, frivolous ones on the other hand, are not.

The Stella Awards are all about frivolous lawsuits. Check out these links:
See this list: Stella Awards Case log
Also:The Stella Awards Main Site

 

[wv2win]

Sure they can. But unlike China, the U.S. hasn't had recent problems with deaths related to tainted products, including DEG passed of as VG in bulk by Chinese suppliers to cut costs. Someone in the U.S. can get safe components at their local drugstore, and would have to go out of their way to get them from China. A Chinese manufacturer is more likely to end up with tainted Chinese components.

The chances are very small of course, but still, it's a chance. Especially when fly-by-night online vendors sell juice they label "Dekang", but few offer proof that what they are selling comes from the Dekang factory, and not a Chinese basement, Dekang being basically slang for inexpensive juice of unknown origin.

The FDA ruling that ecigs will be regulated as tobacco products will probably improve the situation. There will be fewer Chinese mom and pop shops allowed to import into a regulated industry. Of course many will continue to ship to the states illegally.

It would be nice if you would provide solid "proof" of these "mom and pop" outfits in China sending tainted eliquid to the US instead of just making wild accusations with no proof that is specific to the ecig business.

I personally know, however, of "mom & pop" individuals in the US making eliquids in their basements and selling them on-line. I know of no health problems with these products and would not try to "bad mouth" them just because they are individuals working out of their homes.

DeKang is not slang for anything. It is simply eliquid made by the one company that makes DeKang eliquid. No different than HALO eliquid is make by one company who makes HALO eliquid.

 

[wv2win]

.......Wv- She isn't in Ga so her taxes are not the same as yours

Morgy- His taxes in GA are lower so liability insurance is more of a concern to him

To both of you: Lawsuits are important recourse for people harmed by a product or service. That said, frivolous lawsuits do more harm than good. A friend of my parents had to pay a robber a crap load of money when he cut himself while robbing their home. That is wrong! Justified lawsuits are necessary and a good thing, frivolous ones on the other hand, are not.

The Stella Awards are all about frivolous lawsuits. Check out these links:
See this list: Stella Awards Case log
Also:The Stella Awards Main Site

Your point on the taxes is accurate. My point on the taxes is that no matter where you run your business, if it is a local business only, then it is the same for all of your competitors, so it does not hurt your ability to compete. And at least taxes goes toward some things necessary for society to function such as infrastructure, schools, etc.

High liability insurance helps no one but the insurance companies and hurts us all because it raises the cost of doing business with no return to the consumer or anyone else. I assumed any business owner would understand this difference.

Thank you for the link on the frivolous lawsuits. These type of lawsuits and the associated costs is lamented at most of our business association meetings.

 

[Morgythekilla]

I agree. Also may I add a few things:

1) The supplier I use imports the nic from Belgium not China and all other ingredients are American.

2) Morgy and Wv both of you have valid points, and the hostility in unnecessary IMO

Wv- She isn't in Ga so her taxes are not the same as yours

Morgy- His taxes in GA are lower so liability insurance is more of a concern to him

To both of you: Lawsuits are important recourse for people harmed by a product or service. That said, frivolous lawsuits do more harm than good. A friend of my parents had to pay a robber a crap load of money when he cut himself while robbing their home. That is wrong! Justified lawsuits are necessary and a good thing, frivolous ones on the other hand, are not.

The Stella Awards are all about frivolous lawsuits. Check out these links:
See this list: Stella Awards Case log
Also:The Stella Awards Main Site

Reminds me of the movie "liar Liar"... and hunn I know what I am tlaking about with small businesses and taxes.. Yes the property taxes are much higher in MN.. But liability insurance is bs.. this guy does not know what he is talking about.

 

[Morgythekilla]

..........................

 

[Morgythekilla]

I am sorry that we are disagreeing, but you as a construction owner, know what I am going through... You are not getting what I am explaining. I am sorry for the hostility, but I assure you that we are both on nearly the same page. Is not your business struggling right now??? Do you find it hard to even find work right now due to the economy? You and I are pretty much in the same vote right now, and I hope your comapany does better as the new presidential election come through.. I know what small business owners are going through right now, with the fight of the union's and everything else.

 

[ElProximo]

I might have started this. I suggested we can (at least) have some 'liability insurance' from Chinese and I meant this in the sense that an irresponsible 'tainted' e-juice distributor (especially to overseas consumers) is at a very high risk of GETTING SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD IN A DIRTY PRISON CELL. Yikes!

The follow up comment misunderstood me a little and took that 'insurance' meaning we (the buyers) would have no luck suing the Chinese criminal. I agree that is more difficult but I'm going to put this hypothetical scenario out there and decide what makes you feel 'more insured' so to speak:

- 21 year old Chemistry student stole a bottle of nicotine from community college and decided that with a $20 go-daddy domain and some of mom's jam jars and a few syringes is going to become the next e-juice 'Breaking Bad' cash money wiz-kid of Scranton Ohio.
He screws it up one night while baked on weed and distracted by an intense X-Box tournament. Should he bother testing this before shipping off some deadly juice?
After you get released from hospital with severe injury, job loss and trauma he realizes that it's entirely possible he might get an overnight in jail, a large bond paid by mom's mortgage, possible probation AND in years later maybe he is sued and you will never get money anyways but its a big hassle.

Or

Qin Ji from Changchun runs an illegitimate counterfeiting business and somehow gets an online website and paypal account unnoticed by party internet monitoring agencies. (possibly bribes?) and instead of sending genuine safe nicotine juice he loads bottles with antifreeze component. It gets through Chinese Customs to your house. You end up in hospital seriously ill, job loss, trauma, report the event to American Embassy who (in shocking swiftness for a gov agency) alerts Chinese officials who absolutely know exactly who's I.P. and apartment factory is,
and,
he is swiftly removed in the middle of the night by some policemen. 6 days later he is in 'court' which consists of a panel of communist party members. Day 7 he is found guilty. (he has no 'Lawyer') and his verdict broadcast on CCTV that night. It shows him being led out of the court.
Day 9 Mr. Ji will be taken from his HIGHLY UNPLEASANT jail cell to a 'special cell'. It will have a 'mark' on the floor. He will be told to stand on the mark and face the wall. No family is there. No 'last meals' or anything. Just a pistol at the back of his head. Klick, boom!

It is also possible that ANYONE involved in Mr. Ji's operation is in a prison that, on a normal day, is FAR MORE painful and scary than the USA's 'worst torture' called 'water boarding'.
(yep, i have relatives who spent 2 years for stealing a pig (not joking) and were so ....... traumatized they are still not the same after coming out).
It is possible you can seek damages, compensation etc for the Chinese poisoning too. The guy will be dead but sometime the Embassies work out compensation in a few of these things. However unlikely.

Now, am I saying I'm 100% confident ordering the Chinese juice? No. I am not. They are more likely to cut corners and stuff some unsafe foam in an atomizer or just make a cheaper juice in my opinion. I think less likely to blatantly send 'poison' though. Just my guess.

But the point here being that you do have some 'insurance' in that Chinese 'basement chemists' who sell poison to anyone overseas sometimes disappear or in one case 'commit suicide' shortly after being caught. In that sense you could call that 'insurance' I suppose.

The funny thing is this - I WILL confidently order Chinese e-juice from Canada feeling quite safe they wouldn't dare screw it up to a foreign customer,
however,
when I am IN mainland China I WONT buy many e-cig items or certainly not juice from any stores. Sad as it sounds - they are less vigilant about Chinese buying counterfeit products in China from other Chinese knock-off artists than to foreigners. In fact, the first e-cigs we found in a market were (so my wife identified) counterfeit! They got away with it in market but I bet they would not DARE to put up a website and sell them to foreigners.

Crazy world!

*btw, I should mention that I was being hypothetical and to the best of my knowledge I have NEVER heard of any bad juice from China and that includes I'm guessing hundreds on this forum who have ordered maybe thousands of bottles from Chinese distributors.

**Not to mention there are PLENTY of your 'American E-Juice' companies who do simply import nicotine juice FROM China, mix flavours, PG blends etc and that IS what you are buying - Chinese e-juice.

***and yes e-juice is a Chinese invention and they were making e-Juice long before any of us heard of this Chinese product and of course nearly ALL our e-cigs are FROM China.

Okay.. I guess end small novel

 

[Rhyno]

As a foreigner living in China, definitely agree with ElProximo. When it comes to sourcing from China, doing ur research beforehand is of the utmost importance. Thus, if u do buy ejuice from here, it is best to go with a trusted vendor.

But if you have the money to spare, why not support a US business. We need it.

 

[niczgreat]

It's a taste preference. I just don't like the Chinese Liquids. They taste soapy and very chemical to me.

As for U.S Makers:
Halo makes super clear liquids that are very clean tasting. I suspect though that I may have developed an allergy to PG
so I tried Johnson Creek Tundra one of their Red Oak Brand that is 100% VG. I simply like the taste. I did notice that unlike Halo which is very clear the Johnson Creek is cloudy.

On the safety front. I work for a company that imports nutraceuticals from China. There are good factories in China and bad ones. Overall though I don't trust Chinese Quality when it is unregulated such as e-liquid

Sticking to the American Liquid makers is safer and I believe the product has a superior taste.

 

[classwife]

Thread pulled up from 5/11...closing