Epower 14650 battery draining?

[Jason4521]

Hello everyone,

I am a pretty new user. I like my epower 14650. I got the kit from sweet vapes. The problem is I feel like the batteries aren't lasting very long. I noticed that they seem to be losing charge just sitting in the vaporizer. Last night I charged a battery fully. I took it off, let it sit a half hour, then put it back on and it was full. I then put it in the vaporizer, and left it overnight. This morning I put it back on the charger, and sure enough it is taking a charge. It has been charging about 3 hours, and is still going. It shouldn't be losing so much power just sitting in the vape, right? Could it be the switch is bad?

Thanks
Jason

 

[H Niemand]

I have an E Power I got from Hossier. Other than the first switch was bad, voltage limited, no problems. It sounds like the switch on yours is bad. Contact Sweet Vapes to see what they say.

 

[mynameisrob]

Yeah it def shouldnt be draining the battery when not in use. Ive been using an E-Power for over 6 months and have never had that happen.
What switch came with your kit?
Smoktech has brought out a few different switches since the E-Power was first released. Heres them all:

The first had a blue LED and a rubber button that would get stuck and sometimes would fall out.
Then they came out with a second one that was the exact same switch, Blue LED, but they replaced the rubber button with a plastic one. This switch actually worked really well and was rated for 1.5ohm and up, and was the switch that was sold with the kits for quite awhile.
Then about 2-3 months ago they came out with a new switch to replace the second one. The third switch had a white LED instead and had a 5-click on/off feature so you could turn the unit off. It worked okay, but for some reason Smoktech (the company that makes the E-Power) decided for some stupid reason to make the white LED switch only rated to use 2.0ohm and up. This caused a lot of problems bc many people that had E-Powers used cartos that were below 2.0ohm like the 1.7ohm Ressurectors or the 1.5ohm EPower Dual Coils, and the white LED switch wouldnt work for most people with cartos below 2.0ohm.
So Smoktech went back and fixed their total screw-up by bringing out a 4th switch to replace the white LED one. The newest one just came out a few weeks ago, and not many vendors carry it yet. The newest one has a blue LED and is rated to use 1.5ohm and up, like the older switches were, but now it also has the 5-click on/off feature like the white LED switch had.
This switch is the current E-Power switch and FINALLY Smoktech got it right. This switch works really well and will run the Ressurectors and the 1.5ohm E-Power dual coils with no problems. And you can turn the unit off so it doesnt accidentily fire in your pocket when carrying it around.
So which switch do you have? I would def call sweetvapes and tell them about it. It sounds like a faulty switch and it shouldnt drain your battery when not in use. I would also ask them if they have any of the newest Blue LED switches with the 5-click on/off feature and see if they can send you one of them.
If they dont, see if they have any of the older blue LED switches without the 5-click on/off. Yeah you wouldnt be able to turn the unit on and off, but at least it works well. I wouldnt let them send you a white LED switch, especially if you like using cartos below 2.0ohm bc its likely it will give you trouble.

Then if you want you could always order one of the newest switches elsewhere, which wouldnt be a bad idea bc its always good to have backups anyway (I have 3 switches even though Im still using my orginal one bc it still works great)

Hoosier Ecig Supply and Crystal Clear vaping are the only vendors I know that have the newest one. Unfortunately their both sold out right now though. CCV is supposed to be getting a shipment of them in this week though and Im waiting for them too to order one from CCV. They sell it for the cheapest too and with free shipping.
Hoosier is also sold out right now but said hes expecting to get more in a week or 2. They sell if for about a $1 more, but then youd also have to pay $4 shipping too.



Also do you have a multimeter? I would check the batteries voltage so you can see where their at. A fresh battery should come off the charger at around 4.1V. With the charger that came with my E-Power kit mine come off the charger at 4.06V, and with the TR-001 charger I bought they come off at 4.08-4.10V. I get about a day and a half on one battery from full charge to completely dead, but I dont let them drain all the way down. I just put a fresh battery in every morning and recharge the one from the night before then (Dont let them charge overnight, or stay on the charger for a long time after their fully charged). By not letting them drain all the way down, they will last longer.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jason4521]

I have the second switch. Blue light, plastic button, no 5 click on/off.

I do have a multimeter, and just tested it. The aforementioned battery came off the charger at 4.20v. I guess the charger is a little high, but I don't think that is the problem here. I may try and test it a little more before I email sweet vapes. I have been wanting one of the new switches though. I want that on/off function.

 

[mynameisrob]

4.20V is def on the high end, but as long as it doesn't go higher it should be okay. If it goes past that it's likely to overcharge it and can damage the battery.
Are you using the single cell charger that came with the Epower?
I recently bought a TR-001 charger and it works really well. The 14650 stock batteries are def a tight fit, but I just don't push the + side in all the way bc as long as it's touching it will charge and the light will turn red. I have a 14650 high-drain battery too and the IMR 14650 battery fits in no problem bc its a few mm shorter than the stock batteries.
Many ecig vendors sell the TR-001 charger between $10-15 bucks. It charges the batteries quite a bit faster and allows you to charge 2 batteries at once which is nice. If your willing to wait like 2 weeks for it, I ordered one off eBay and got it for only $8.40 with free shipping. It does ship from China so that's why it takes like 10-14 days, but for the price I def think its worth it if your ever looking for another charger.
Maybe try taking it off alittle before the light stays a solid green. If you take it off when it's flickering back and forth quickly it should be closer to 4.1V, which is where you want it.

What is the voltage of a full battery after you leave it in the PV for a night? Bc if your really not using it, it def shouldn't be draining.

I would mess with it alittle and if it keeps doing it def call sweet-vapes and have them send you another switch. I think you just got unlucky and got a bad one bc like I said that switch normally works really well. That was the switch that came with my Epower kit when I first bought it and it still works great over 6 months later. I even bought a second one of those switches like a month later to have just in case something happened to the one that came with my kit and I never even used it bc the original one always worked perfectly. I now use the newest one bc I really like the 5-click on/off feature, and just keep my original switch and the other brand new one as backups.

I def don't blame you for wanting the new one bc the on/off feature is really nice to have. Some people don't use it but I use it all the time bc I carry my Epower with me in my pocket everywhere I go. Mine used to always turn on in my pocket and I'd suddenly hear the crackling noise and have to move my leg around so it would stop, but now I just turn it off and forget about it.

Even if you do buy one of the newest ones, I would still get sweet vapes to send you another if that one is bad. You could use it as a backup, or do what I did and build yourself another Epower for cheap.
Hoosier sells battery tubes for $7.50. I bought a second battery tube and now use the 2nd gen switch that I never ended up using. Hoosier also sells spare batteries for $5.89 if you want an extra or you can just use the second one that comes with the kit. They also sell cones for I think $4.50, but I didnt buy one bc I never used it anyway and now I use a Smoktech 3.5ml tank with the Ressurector cartos so I couldn't use the cone anyway. So now I have a black and SS Epower and the second one only cost about $15 for a tube and switch.
So that's always an option, or you could just use the other switch as a back-up

 

[yzer]

Jason4521,

I'm not sure that you have a problem with the battery or the switch.

Take a voltage reading from your protected battery. Fully charged a new battery is going to read somewhere between 4.10 and 4.20V. Don't worry about the hundredths of a volt too much, most inexpensive DMMs aren't all that accurate. If you have Fluke, that's another story.

Put in the battery, hold the E-Power at arm's length and press the switch. If the battery doesn't outgas, it's probably not defective. This is a good precautionary test to make anytime you suspect a problem with a battery.

Now vape away. Take a voltage readings several hours apart if you like just to watch the battery voltage drop. Sometime between now and tomorrow the voltage will drop to the point that the lighted button will flash a few times after you push it. This means the battery is getting low. You will notice less vapor production after that. A little later the E-Power won't fire a carto or atty at all. The battery needs to be recharged now.

The discharged battery will now read well below 3.5V. Using LR cartos, my E-Power 14650 can go down to between 3.10 and 3.20V before needing a recharge.

If you use the YL-103A single cell charger that comes with most E-Power 14650 kits the charger will show a solid green light when the battery is done charging. When charging is finished the battery will read somewhere between 4.10 and 4.20V. If you leave the battery in the charger for several hours after the light goes green, the charge will slowly rise and approach 4.20V. If the battery stays on the charger too long, it could easily hit as high as 4.20V which is OK, but not recommended by most protected Li-ion battery manufacturers.

 

[Jason4521]

mynameisrob,

I do currently use the charger that came with the kit. I ordered a TR-001 with 2 trustfire 1600mah, and 4 IMR NiMN batteries. I just ordered it a day ago, and it's coming from China, so it will be a couple weeks.

I think I should test the voltage before and after leaving it in the vaporizer over night to make sure. The multi meter is at work, but I will borrow it.

yzer,

I hear what you are saying about it discharging the correct way. I will experiment a bit tonight while vaping to make sure it is working as you say. I just don't think that addresses the problem of it losing charge just sitting in the vaporizer. Letting go of the button should break the circuit and it should just sit there. Perhaps I will compare a fully charged battery sitting in the vape overnight, to the same fully charged battery (next night) just sitting on the counter. Then I will know for sure if the vaporizer is draining it when not in use.

I will report back with what I find. Thanks everyone!

 

[yzer]

Jason, you are on the right track. Take a voltage reading of the battery before you put it into the pv. Let it sit overnight without using and see what the voltage is the next morning.

If the button is sticking in the ON position it should remain lighted and that PV is going to get hot.

If I charge a battery to a typical 4.17V and let the battery sit in the cupboard for a week before using it the voltage will drop to maybe 4.14V just sitting there doing nothing.

The YL-103A is acually a pretty good charger. I have a Trustfire TR-001, too. Although the TR-001 will charge two cells independently, it isn't a better charger than the YL-103A at all. Both use the same charge profiles, charge to about the same voltage and handle the same battery sizes. In fact the protected 14650 measures pretty long: 69mm. They fit in my YL-103As much better than my TR-001 which just barely holds them.

I got a good deal on YL-103A chargers a few months ago and did this:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...w-cost-6-channel-li-ion-battery-charging.html

 

[yzer]

Here is another quick and dirty switch test you can perform with your DMM. Set the meter for voltage as before. Put a charged battery inside the E-Power. Remove the carto or atty from the 510 connector. Set the E-Power on end on a flat surface. Hold the red positive probe to the center post of the 510 connector. Do not touch anything else with the positive probe. Touch the black negative probe to the outside of the 510 connector (or if you have a metal finished E-Power: anywhere on the outside of the case). If the power button is not held down during this test you should see no voltage on the meter if the switch is working properly.

Now repeat the test but this time hold down the power button with your left thumb before and while making contact with the negative probe. You should see voltage this time.

 

[Jason4521]

I tried it again, but with the multimeter. I charged up the same battery. It read 4.20v. I put it in the vaporizer, and left it overnight for over 8 hours. I took it out in the morning and it read 3.61v. I will try it with the other battery tonight, and contact the vendor to see what they say.

yzer, I tried the last thing you mentioned. I saw no voltage until the switch was pressed.

 

[yzer]

There is no way that a freshly charged protected 14650 battery at 4.20V should discharge to 3.6V sitting unused in the pv overnight.

I would not charge or use that battery again, just to be on the safe side.

If the second battery discharges the same way then you may have a serious problem with the E-Power.

How old are these batteries and have they been used a lot? Are they undamaged with no dents anywhere, no cuts or bare spots in the shrink wrap?

 

[yzer]

If the other battery reads 3.8V or more don't charge it. Just put it into the E-Power, leave it there unused overnight and look at the voltage the next morning.

It could be that for some reason you have two bad batteries.

 

[Jason4521]

I already charged the aforementioned battery. I am going to let it sit outside of the vape and see it if discharges like it did when it was in the vape. The batteries are undamaged. They are a little over a month old. I am a medium-light vaper.

 

[yzer]

Letting the charged second battery sit overnight outside the E-Power sounds like a fine idea. The switch tested good on the DMM.

I'm guessing that your charger is good. If you have the same chargers I use they are the YL-103A. The model number is on the label on the back of the charger. These are the chargers I show in the link in post #8. The + and - marking appears on the case of these chargers but it it the same black color as the rest of the case. With the YL-103A charger the battery mounts upside down (positive button facing down) which is the opposite of any other charger I've seen.

I don't like the Trustfire TR-001 charger for these protected 14650 batteries. It does not hold the 69mm long 14650 securely in the charger. I don't want a battery coming loose from the contacts if the charger is bumped during charging. I charged a pair once to see if TR-001 charged any faster than than the YL-103A and it didn't. Charging 14650s discharged to about 3.2V takes about 7 hours with either charger. I do use the TR-001 with the 14500s I use for flashlights.

 

[Jason4521]

I let the charged battery sit outside the vape for about 6 hours. It went from 4.20 to 4.19 or 4.18. Almost no drain. I then charged the other battery, and left it in the vape overnight, about 8 hours. It went from 4.2v to 3.62. I doubt I have two bad batteries, so I think it must be the switch. I contacted Sweet vapes, and they thought it was the battery. They are sending me two IMRs free of charge! (Great vendor BTW!). I will experiment with the IMRs and report back.

 

[yzer]

This problem is very interesting.

Let's see If I have this right.

1. Batteries A and B discharge from about 4.2V to 3.6V if left in the pv unused overnight.
2. Battery A does not show unusual discharge if left on the shelf overnight.
3. The switch shows good ON/OFF function if voltage is measured at the 510 connector post.

I guess the only battery test left is to leave charged battery B on the shelf overnight and check for discharge the next morning.

Now it looks like the switch is bad and the batteries are OK. This stumps me because a full circuit to the battery is required before the battery would discharge appreciably in the pv. That circuit should show as voltage between B+ and ground on the DMM.

My protected Li-ion batteries (Trustfire blue and Smoktech) don't discharge appreciably if placed inside the E-Power 14650 and left unused. I have two E-Power 14650s in use. Sometimes I may not use one of these for several days. With a newly charged battery inside the voltage will still read well over 4.10V days later.

Again, I'm stumped on this one and look forward to finding out how things work out.

 

[br5495]

The battery for the E-Power is rated at 3.7 volts and it should come off the charger at 4.2 volts. Just measure the battery by itself without installing it in the tube and this is what you should see. However, this voltage doesn't mean anything because the battery does not have a load applied.

If this battery is installed in a mod with a mechanical switch, it will supply 3.7 volts to just about any coil of a reasonable resistance. The coil resistance will determine how long it will supply that voltage before it will begin to drop off.

The E-Power is a different animal. It has a circuit that regulates at 3.5 volts, or thereabouts. But then, you can only measure that voltage while a device is installed or a load is applied. Here is an old photo of a home made contraption that allows me to make this measurement.

(This shot is with an old battery and cartomizer, so don't pay any attention to them)

If you measure the voltage of the E-Power without a load, there's no telling what you will get. Probably around 3.6 volts or so, but each switch unit may be somewhat different. This thing is trying to regulate at 3.5 volts, but it can't find a load to let it do so.

I vape back to back almost constantly, so my E-Power will only maintain 3.5 volts for a few hours. After that, the voltage slowly drops off until the vape is too weak.

 

[yzer]

The problem here is that Jason's batteries are discharging without being used in the E-Power. They discharge if they are placed in the E-Power and not used, they discharge if they are placed on a shelf and not used.

The only voltage test we made off the E-Power was to look for switch ON-OFF function. For this test you only need to look for voltage, any voltage. The voltage value doesn't matter in this test.

When talking about specific battery voltage in this thread I assumed we were talking about voltage taken directly off a battery, not regulated E-Power voltage under load or without load.

 

[br5495]

The problem here is that Jason's batteries are discharging without being used in the E-Power. They discharge if they are placed in the E-Power and not used, they discharge if they are placed on a shelf and not used.

The only voltage test we made off the E-Power was to look for switch ON-OFF function. For this test you only need to look for voltage, any voltage. The voltage value doesn't matter in this test.

When talking about specific battery voltage in this thread I assumed we were talking about voltage taken directly off a battery, not regulated E-Power voltage under load or without load.

Yes, I read the entire thread, but you said earlier, "There is no way that a freshly charged protected 14650 battery at 4.20V should discharge to 3.6V sitting unused in the pv overnight."

I say that the battery probably did not "discharge" overnight to 3.6v. I believe that the electronics of many E-Power batteries will show about that voltage when fully charged. I know that both of mine do.

 

[yzer]

Battery voltage for the purpose of determining state of charge can not be metered while the battery is still in the E-Power.

1. Charge the battery and take it out of the charger.
2. Meter battery voltage directly off the battery. It should be near 4.2V.
3. Place the battery in the E-Power. Do not use the E-Power. Leave the battery in the E-Power overnight.
4. The next morning remove the battery from the E-Power.
5. Meter voltage directly off the battery. It should still be near 4.2V.

Say I have a freshly charged battery that reads about 4.2V. I put that battery into my E-Power 14650. If I measure B+ at the 510 connector without load I'm going to get around 3.9V. That lower voltage is due to regulation from the E-Power switch electronics, not from the battery discharging.