Ethyl Malto Substitution ?

[Thunderball]

Hi everyone. I am new to DIY and have ordered 40 flavors from TFA and I'M having a great time and much success with stand alone flavors in conjunction with the "E-juice Me Up" calculator.

One thing I did not order was Ethyl Malto and I see that is a prefered ingredient to many concoctions. I was wondering if there is a close substitute ?

I do have a bottle of sweetener. Would that be a god substitute ?

I will order some EM next time, but at 11 bucks for shipping, its kind of crazy to order that alone.

What do you think ?

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I've used Stevia a bit. Caution: Many sweeteners can contribute to wick build up.

 

[SouthernBliss]

It sort of depends on why if is in the recipe and if it really needs to be. EM in very small amounts will help smooth out a mix as will smooth. It also can be used to sweeten in larger amounts. If its to sweetened then using sweetener instead will work. In some cases it dims flavors though so be careful with it. Depending on the mix is may not really be a necessary component.

 

[Aurora-Oblivion]

$11 shipping? That's crazy!

Since you may want it later, and I hate to see that exorbitant shipping price, you can get the crystals or 10% premixed liquid here, and shipping for either of those alone (Or both) should only be around $2-3 for the small/medium sizes
Perfumers Apprentice - Ethyl Maltol Liquid (10% PG)
Perfumers Apprentice - Ethyl Maltol crystals

 

[we2rcool]

It sort of depends on why if is in the recipe and if it really needs to be. EM in very small amounts will help smooth out a mix as will smooth. It also can be used to sweeten in larger amounts. If its to sweetened then using sweetener instead will work. In some cases it dims flavors though so be careful with it. Depending on the mix is may not really be a necessary component.

AGREE! And I'll add - it seems to me that the addition of EM is somethings tons of people do, but not very many people actually know why....but since everybody does it, so does everybody else. It really does (in many cases) diminish flavor. It does have a flavor of it's own (unlike a neutral sweetener), which is very much like it smells - similar to cotton candy. Too much can be bitter-ish and very much like burnt sugar.

Fwiw, I've been DIYing for 4 months; I've never used it as an addition to a 'single flavor' (yet), and out of all my creations, I've only used it in two of them (once because of the cotton-candy flavor; the other to 'blend' a couple-three flavors together that I didn't want to taste individually - it seemed to help for that). I've also made a Cotton Candy type vape with it.

Methinks it's definitely something you want to have around for DIYing. As with all additives, just start low, use it wisely, and you'll do great!

 

[Aurora-Oblivion]

I agree fully on that flavor diminishing ability we2rcool, but didn't want to add to anyone's confusion!

It directly blunts any/all flavors for me every time, even when used in tiny percentages like a single drop from a 18-20ga needle, and that blunting affect increases proportionally as I increase the percentage 1-3%, ect.

I've not mentioned this much to others, but like you just posted I've seen plenty of people say the same too. I was never sure if maybe that only happens to some people, like how we all taste things differently, or if it happens to everyone and not everyone realizes this because they're just used to seeing it suggested as a sweetener so they may not know any better and just end up thinking the flavoring is weak so they increase the percentage of the main flavors to compensate.

It can blend as you mention, and I have noted that when used lightly, but still then it's blunting everything too for me while it blends, so I rarely use it at all (Usually only in tests now to see how it affects flavors, knowing the blunting effect is coming)

 

[we2rcool]

It directly blunts any/all flavors for me every time, even when used in tiny percentages like a single drop from a 18-20ga needle, and that blunting affect increases proportionally as I increase the percentage 1-3%, ect.

ME TOO! When I see recipes with 1-5% (or more) EM, the other flavor percentages end up being VERY high.

Vape ON!

 

[Aurora-Oblivion]

I don't see how anyone could use it at 2-5% and expect to have flavor left in their juice, without having to go twice the normal amount for said flavorings. I set it aside after several tests and confirmations, it's not really something that I've been able to find a use for in my DIY.

Maybe someday if I need to use crab flavoring in a crab cake juice, but I don't really want to taste the crab too much, and using a tiny percent of crab flavor doesn't properly, then I might bring out the EM again, but other than that I'll leave the crystals in the bag and my bottle of mix will sit and turn into cotton candy gold.

Unless it is maybe like other flavors, and affects us all differently? I was talking about this with someone tonight before these posts even, and I considered that, but wasn't really sure since it's not an actual flavor we are tasting and describing effects of here.

I have been considering using some of it up by trying Lynda's "Lucious" though, like I see you're playing with we2rcool, and I like your vanillian idea too since I have some of that as well. So for now that's where my EM belongs me thinks, need to grab some VG nic first though

 

[Thunderball]

WoW !! Thanks for all the answers.

I was just going to make simple juice last night with Ripe Banana and read somewhere here in the forums that I should add a bit of EM.....then noticed many receipes here that call for it. I think I will order some, but will proceed with caution and only add it sparingly to an already, Made and vaped small sample just to taste what it is doing.

Good lesson here for a new DIYer to vape as I go before adding the next ingredient.

'Thanks all

 

[Aurora-Oblivion]

EM can help sometime I suppose, but I've yet to find a good place to use it, so you'll have to play around and see what it does for you.

Before you start busing it though I'd suggest a tester, mix two of the exact same small batches one with EM and one without, and see what you think of the one with before you just start using it in any/all mixes without testing what it does for you.

God luck, hope your mixes turn out tasty!

 

[we2rcool]

I don't see how anyone could use it at 2-5% and expect to have flavor left in their juice, without having to go twice the normal amount for said flavorings. I set it aside after several tests and confirmations, it's not really something that I've been able to find a use for in my DIY.

Maybe someday if I need to use crab flavoring in a crab cake juice, but I don't really want to taste the crab too much, and using a tiny percent of crab flavor doesn't properly, then I might bring out the EM again, but other than that I'll leave the crystals in the bag and my bottle of mix will sit and turn into cotton candy gold.

Unless it is maybe like other flavors, and affects us all differently? I was talking about this with someone tonight before these posts even, and I considered that, but wasn't really sure since it's not an actual flavor we are tasting and describing effects of here.

I have been considering using some of it up by trying Lynda's "Lucious" though, like I see you're playing with we2rcool, and I like your vanillian idea too since I have some of that as well. So for now that's where my EM belongs me thinks, need to grab some VG nic first though

Yeppers, agreed...2-5% EM would cause a need to double most flavors (in my experience). I also have found little-to-no use for it (other than as a Cotton-Candy type vape).

Crab cake & EM juice - now that's a scary thought, for sure and for certain!

I'd love to have the time to get into deep discussion about the way the different flavorings affect us - and how we each perceive them differently. That'd be a great discussion/thread, imo.

'Still working on some variations of the Lucious. We've added a couple of drops of various flavors to several bottles...very interesting results (I'll post about it in that thread after we've had a chance to 'get to know them all').

Before you start busing it though I'd suggest a tester, mix two of the exact same small batches one with EM and one without, and see what you think of the one with before you just start using it in any/all mixes without testing what it does for you.

EXCELLENT ADVICE!

 

[classwife]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid from E-Liquid Recipes...not a recipe

 

[mrcoolbp]

Guys, EM does sweeten, but in a burnt-sugar/cotton-candy kinda way. It's most useful in tobaccos because of this burnt flavor. I use it in some of my tobaccos.

That being said, people are sensitive to EM at different levels. I'm very sensitive to it, and sometimes .5% is too much. Yes .5%. I'd start at .25%, maybe .5% and work your way up. Also, EM does contribute heavily to atomizer "gunk" buildup, not sure about regular sweeteners in this aspect.

If you are making dessert/bakery/fruity vapes, sweetner is usually recommended instead of EM.

 

[MissAmerican]

So glad I read this thread right before adding EM, I just assumed it was sweetener and had no other effect on the juice! Definitely don't like the burnt sugar taste and don't want to dilute any flavoring so I think I'll stick to sweetener, thanks to all for the info!

 

[Knosis]

I don't know.. I make my own tobacco extracts and I have found that EM helps smooth some of them out. Either EM, caramel or brown sugar flavoring. I do 1.5 grams EM to 10ml PG and then add maybe 2.5% to my mixes.

The tobacco extracts I make come out strong. I usually only need 1 to 3% for a good flavor. More than that it gets pretty harsh.

 

[Rickb119]

I've used Stevia a bit. Caution: Many sweeteners can contribute to wick build up.

Me too, and I agree about the wick build up. Glad I learned to rebuild them.

One more word of caution: It's very easy to over sweeten. Not "quite" sweet enough does not mean to double the amount.