Ethyl Maltol + unflavored 36mg + VG = bleah?

[groundsclown]

In another thread someone had used EM, so I decided to order a small vial from Perfumers Apprentice (where they got theirs from)
Well it smells just like it's supposed to...Kinda sweet/cotton candy/carmelized sugar. A single granule on my tongue gave the same taste.
But for the life of me I can't seem to add enough to flavor before it doesn't dissolve any more.
Measured using the tip of a sharp knife to 6ml of juice. Shook, shook, shook & shook some more. (it's supposed to be water soluble) but alas the little crystals just dance around laughing at me.
Next I use same ammount to 1 ml of water & zap it in the microwave in 3 second intervals, shaking each time until the mixture was warm. Well now it lost it's sweet smell & now smells like rubbing alcohol...Into the sink it went.
Lastly, same measurement into 1ml of water into a dropper bottle & currently letting it sit for a while, shaking occasionaly. After an hour, the crystals don't seem to be disolving so I'm not holding my breath.

I haven't tried anything like 151 yet but I'm wondering if anyone here has tried using ethyl maltol as a main flavoring?
I'm not a drinker so I don't have any liquor in the house but wonder if I should even bother buying a bottle.

Rob

 

[youfillintheblank]

give it some time....I'm mixing 36mg PG unflavoured with tobacco absolute and ethyl maltol from the same website. the crystals WILL dissolve on their own in PG liquid (not sure about VG) but it will take 30-60 minutes + shaking. Or leave it overnight with no shaking and they should be gone in the morning. Works great.

 

[groundsclown]

Thanks a lot. I'll be patient & check on it in the morning.

Rob

 

[bearscreek]

Rob, I'm not sure, but I don't think I'd try to use ethyl maltol alone as a flavoring. I'd look at it more like a flavor enhancer. You got some tobacco absolute too, didn't you?

 

[Linthorn]

I got some absolute and EM from perfumers apprentice as well. I tried mixing up a diluted mix of 2 drops TA to 5ml 190 proof (Everclear).lput a couple dips with sure VG & PG.I get a decent flavor but a perfume aftertaste. Anyone else get that?

 

[youfillintheblank]

I skip the alcohol dilution and just use a pin to add tiny drops of TA to the mix...I get that perfumey taste if there is very little TA, so I just add more until it's darker and then it's good, but cloudy. I don't mind, but I bet it's not good for atomizers.

And really......they are PERFUME ingredients so there you go.

Johnson creek Tennesee cured is a good add-on flavour to the tobacco absolute/ethyl maltol recipie.

I got some absolute and EM from perfumers apprentice as well. I tried mixing up a diluted mix of 2 drops TA to 5ml 190 proof (Everclear).lput a couple dips with sure VG & PG.I get a decent flavor but a perfume aftertaste. Anyone else get that?

 

[Kate51]

Ethyl Maltol yummy stuff dissolves better by pre-mixing in tepid distilled water..would take a very small amount, depending on the batch size, you wouldn't want to over-use the EM. I did read on one of the DIY posts back awhile, water 90-100`F, then add to VG. It wouldn't keep very long in water, so you want to be shy with pre-mix, so not to dilute the VG too much. It is very inexpensive, so throw away not a big deal, but still....
Just as cutting absolute in Everclear first, suspends or mixes better. If this isn't correct please say so. I am still trying to use up some of my JC before I do a big batch of VG. Also still waiting for one of the absolutes, Virginia gold. And the Ethyl Maltol is more for smoothing and enhancing flavors, not exactly being one. The way it does that is by countering the high bitters, making it seem smoother more pallatable. A little different than say vanilla, which adds flavor. Ever hear of a breakfast cereal named Malto Meal? Was one of the first uses for EM, was also used in cocoa. Loved it! Yes, I was a kid, just don't ask! It's still made, and it has aged nicely!

Sure wish I could find a constant source though for unflavored 36 mg.ml VG in 60Ml bottles, has been more miss than hit here lately, 24mg available, that's all I can find. The 36mg always seems to be in PG, why the heck is that!?! Would love to stock up as much as possible. I have a feeling what's out there is China stuff, makes me nervous a bit. But have also not found it through China sources either. I am at a disadvantage because I can't tolerate PG, that's the real only reason I have to mix my own juice. And cost savings, of course. I almost have the taste I want, will be trying the Virginia in addition to the rustica. Hopefully that will do it for me.

[edit] Have just been handed an update: Intellicig has a good line of VG 36, you can buy and pint at a time, line name is ecopure

 

[Kate51]

I'm going to post another post (rather than edit the one above me, here)
because I've been having a problem getting the Ethyl Maltol crystals to dissolve. So I wrote to the Perfumer's Apprentice and asked what ratio liquid and which liquids would work. Here's her answer:

here is the solubility info i have:
soluble in :
alcohol, 12%
benzyl alcohol, 10%
phenethyl alcohol 5%
propylene glycol, 5.5%
water, 24200 mg/L @ 25C
but perhaps it is possible that you don't need
to pre-dissolve the ethyl maltol?

This got me to thinking that having to liquify my tobacco absolute in grain alcohol, why would I not be able to add the required amount of Ethyl Maltol directly to that mixture, rather than pre-dissolve the maltol crystals in a second mix using distilled water. Would certainly simplify mixing and be a more accurate measuring process.
Maybe some of your already are doing this, Linthorn I see you must do this.
Can anyone enlighten me with your methods, I'm using tobacco absolute nicotiana tobacum , it really needs some Ethyl Maltol to soften the taste a bit. It does have a bite in the aftertaste. I suppose some would call that a "throat hit", but I call it harsh.

Thanks

 

[Parmacrafter]

Ok, I had the exact same probloem as you. This is how I solved it. First get set up with 15 mils of PG. Put that in a glass bottle with 1/4 teaspoon of the Maltol. I used a ceramic coffee cup but anything tall enough will work. Boil some water. Pour the boiled water into the mug just high enough to meet the level of liquid in your PG/Maltol bottle. Leave this in the hot water for about 3 minutes. Then take out the PG bottle seal and shake the heck out of it. Take the lid off and let it cool a bit while you get some fresh water boiling again. I did this for about 4 rounds and got all the Maltol to dissolve. You don't want to boil the PG, but getting it good and warm seems to do the trick. This mixture will be quite strong on the Maltol side, so it is perfect for your mixing needs. You can add more pg or whatever you like to the mix. This mix will get quite thin with the heating, but does thicken back up after it fully cools. Hope this helps.

 

[Kate51]

Thanks for that, will certainly give it a try. I used one of those coffee cup warming plates to heat the water, that works ok, too, but don't go off and leave it! They do seem to get too hot.
I tried dissolving a quarter teaspoon in a 15ml bottle of distilled water, and it worked fine, but left it in too long I guess, because it clouded up and then kind of turned back to what looks like solidified varnish!

I'm wondering also, the same measure for measure of absolute and EM? Is that too much or no....have to just experiment I guess. Love that tobacco, it's so good, both taste and smell.

 

[Linthorn]

This got me to thinking that having to liquify my tobacco absolute in grain alcohol, why would I not be able to add the required amount of Ethyl Maltol directly to that mixture, rather than pre-dissolve the maltol crystals in a second mix using distilled water. Would certainly simplify mixing and be a more accurate measuring process.
Maybe some of your already are doing this, Linthorn I see you must do this.

That's what I did. I put a drop of absolute and EM in PGA and mixed. l get a green liquid. I added a few drops To a PG /VG mix. lm sure I don't have the proportions right. By adding the EM to the TA mix, lam diluting it alot. How much EM do you use per ml juice?

 

[Skeezix]

Kate,

Before i researched it and found out that dissolving the crystals was so problematical, I was simply dropping my crystals into the VG e-liquid. It worked fine on it's own sitting on my counter undisturbed.

You can get 35mg VG from Vermont Vapor:

Vermont Vapor - The Smoking Alternative

 

[pcore]

If anyone has had success in mixing this with VG please let me know, i believe I may be allergic to PG.

Also, that perfumersapprentice.com site seems a little suspect - that is where you all have gotten your materials?

 

[Linthorn]

If anyone has had success in mixing this with VG please let me know, i believe I may be allergic to PG.

Also, that perfumersapprentice.com site seems a little suspect - that is where you all have gotten your materials?

That's where I got mine. Suspect how? As far as a vendor goes I got exactly what I ordered, quickly and cheap.

 

[pcore]

Glad to hear it. When a site is kind of sloppy looking it always brings up a little suspicion in my mind that's all.

 

[Linthorn]

I posted this to the Canadian board (original tobacco thread), but thought I'd put it here as well.

I noticed a lot of people having problems getting the Maltol crystals to dissolve. I figured that I could speed the process by increasing surface area, i.e. powder. Since my mortar and pestle aren't made for such tiny amounts I used the paper backing from some sticky labels. The backing is smooth and tough. I folded the maltol into a small square of the paper and crushed it gently with a small glass bottle like a rolling pin until I had made a powder. I put the powder in the mix and shook it up for a minute. No '.......s' and no powder in the mix. Completely dissolved. Works great.

 

[bearscreek]

Yep, Perfumer's Apprentice website may leave a bit to be desired, but they are more than fine to order from.

 

[pcore]

Hmm I tried the crushing the crystals last night. I think I need something different to crush it in. I used regular printer paper and the powder stuck to the paper pretty bad and there were also still a lot of crystals that wouldn't dissolve. I'll try again tonight! And again and again!

 

[Linthorn]

Hmm I tried the crushing the crystals last night. I think I need something different to crush it in. I used regular printer paper and the powder stuck to the paper pretty bad and there were also still a lot of crystals that wouldn't dissolve. I'll try again tonight! And again and again!

I originally used the backing for the labels I put on my juice bottles. The last time I made it I used a mylar type pouch that held a coffee pod. Cut three sides and poured my small amount of crystals into the fold. I crushed it with a small (1oz) glass bottle until it no longer made crunching noises. Got a good powder and it didn't stick. Easy dissolve unless you use so much that it saturates. The finer the better, so roll it a lot.

 

[slumdog]

You need PGA or pure grain alcohol (legal moonshine) everclear is the best but not readily available in every state due to local alcohol caps.(Florida is 154 proof or 77% alcohol and 23% distilled water remember it is liquor so that makes it food grade or FDA approved..everclear is 190 proof or 90% alcohol and well u get it.. If your state has a cap you can order it online and have it shipped (illegal to sell not to posses) so having it shipped is Perfectly legal if ya don't wanna do that then as long as you get at least 100 proof you should still be good .... My ta, ma recipe 10ml PGA, 3 drops of ta,(I like it a bit strong) and 1/4 teaspoon em...use this as you would a flavoring one to three drops per 5ml enjoy...