Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !

[f1vefour]

Wow, I really can't believe some of the Evolv "hate" around here. So let me get this straight, if YOU sold an item to a company & then they reverse engineer it & sell a similar product against you then that wouldn't bother you? The income you use to pay your employees, taxes, insurance, R&D, money that you depend on to live & keep a company going so your employees can live is jeopardized & that is supposed to be ok? Seriously?

So again if I understand some of the sentiment here, if you came into work one day & there was a person doing your job at half your labor rate so now your employer doesn't want to pay you your wage, again that would be ok? To add insult to that say it was you who trained this person how to do "similar" job functions that you were doing before they decided you were no longer worth your hourly wage or salary. I'm sorry, maybe it's just me but none of that would sit well with me.

FWIW, I own an RX200 as well as two DNA200 devices, the performance is (IMO) night & day between the devices. Both of my DNA200 devices are from "pacific rim" manufacturing. It seems those two companies had no problems purchasing a board from Evolv & bringing it to the market at a fair price, more than likely at reduced gross profit but obviously still enough profit to keep the lights on at both companies.

You are actually making the case for Joyetech by my understanding of what you've said.

You own both the DNA200 and RX200, you state the difference is "night & day". If Joyetech reverse engineered the DNA200 don't you think the difference between them would be negated, I assure you that it wouldn't be "night & day" being Joyetech has the resources to create a 1:1 clone of the DNA200 if they chose to.

I'm not for Evolv or Joyetech, I do however see this lawsuit for what it is.

 

[Woofer]

I'm not for Evolv or Joyetech, I do however see this lawsuit for what it is.

In my opinion, all you have is an opinion based on a partial understanding of what is happening.

 

[f1vefour]

In my opinion, all you have is an opinion based on a partial understanding of what is happening.

Sure it's a partial understanding, the filing.

I still see this for what it is, Evolv is seeking damages they may or may not be due because Joyetech ...... them off without the courtesy of calling it rain. My understanding currently is fully due to what Evolv claims.

Notice how they mention the Cuboid and the fact that it fimware upgrades to 200W. Why do you think they mentioned that? Why did they insert an image of the DNA200 board with the patent?

I don't own a device from either manufacturer, I went with the Hohm Wrecker G2 for my high powered temperature control needs. I don't have any loyalty to either company, but I certainly hope Evolv can prove what they claim for their sake. They have innovated and I would hate to see them go under, both as an American and a vaper.

*edit*
patent not copyright

 

[Woofer]

Sure it's a partial understanding, the filing.

I still see this for what it is, Evolv is seeking damages they may or may not be due because Joyetech ...... them off without the courtesy of calling it rain. My understanding currently is fully due to what Evolv claims.

Notice how they mention the Cuboid and the fact that it fimware upgrades to 200W. Why do you think they mentioned that? Why did they insert an image of the DNA200 board with the copyright?

I don't own a device from either manufacturer, I went with the Hohm Wrecker G2 for my high powered temperature control needs. I don't have any loyalty to either company, but I certainly hope Evolv can prove what they claim for their sake. They have innovated and I would hate to see them go under, both as an American and a vaper.

Well stated and very fair. I especially agree with your conclusion.

 

[Douggro]

Notice how they mention the Cuboid and the fact that it fimware upgrades to 200W. Why do you think they mentioned that? Why did they insert an image of the DNA200 board with the copyright?

I don't own a device from either manufacturer, I went with the Hohm Wrecker G2 for my high powered temperature control needs. I don't have any loyalty to either company, but I certainly hope Evolv can prove what they claim for their sake. They have innovated and I would hate to see them go under, both as an American and a vaper.

To avoid confusion, the image in the filing of the DNA200 board is imprinted with "US Patent 8,820,330" with no mention of "copyright" on it. Patents and copyrights are distinctly different animals.

This is certainly the reason why we have courts and judges and lawyers: to make the determinations of claims and cases like this one and see it through the legal process. I can't begrudge Evolv for asserting their rights of their patent, something they are entitled to under the law. Regardless of my opinion of their claim, they're a much more reputable claimant than many that stand before the court with infringement claims. And despite the jibing that East Texas would be a more favorable venue given the proclivity there to almost summarily side with claimants, the chosen courts are at least more likely to give due consideration to the principles of the patent and the claim. I prefer equitable justice being applied. Time will tell if we see that happen in this instance.

 

[Racehorse]

I didn't read the filing, and I don't know the story.

I am probably just like some other vapers though, who are sick of watching companies in a very small industry "go after each other."

The number of lawsuits I've seen over the past 3-4 years since I've been vaping, in this tiny niche industry, which is already beleagured by possible regulation, as well as an industry that is at present, somewhat over-saturated, it disappointing.

There's a REO that looks like an exact replica of the original that came out last year. If you haven't ever owned or used a REO, a vaper probably would not know the difference. I have to say, it's one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for the maker of REO.....they don't indulge in all this cannabalistic behavior.

This industry has never had any unity .... and companies suing each other (whether it be over test results on eliquids, or hardware designs) this just provides more proof. Its one of the reasons why they aren't "winning" on the political etc. front either.

IMHO.

Besides, at the rate ecig technology is moving, this hardware won't even be a blip on the radar screen a year or 2 from now.

 

[f1vefour]

To avoid confusion, the image in the filing of the DNA200 board is imprinted with "US Patent 8,820,330" with no mention of "copyright" on it. Patents and copyrights are distinctly different animals.

Sorry, patent not copyright. Thanks for the correction.

 

[vlodato]

I can't exactly comment on the rx200 vs the dna 200 version but I do have a evic vtc mini and a vs dna200. The mini is great and gets the job done but is built and performs far inferior to my vs dna200. Once you use the devices back to back you can tell the difference. First imo temp control on joytech chips (titanium specifically because that's all my tc expierence ) is terrible and I'm not even sure if it actually works. Second ohms readings on my joytech are always very inconsistent and jumpy compared to the dna200. At this point my vtc is barley usable because of these issues. Granted my vtc is abused way more then my dna200. Either way my point is evolve should not be concerned because yes they have a more expensive product but it does perform significantly better. They are 2 completely different animals.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

Because the RX200 board is in direct competition with Evolv's DNA200. None of the other VW boards on the market are in that boat.
Evolv probably found it advantageous to include all Joyetech's VW products in the lawsuit. I'm sure they are listening to their lawyers and doing what is best for them, as are the folks at Joyetech.

Kanger, Sigelei, Tesla, Kamry, Pioneer4you ( IPV5 ), Smok, Hugo, Vaperesso, Wotofo, KSD, Koopor, SMY, Snow Wolf, and all the vendors with the new Yihi board.... and i could go on and on.

These companies all have a 200 watt tc board. Following your line of reasoning, this would be enough ( " Evolv probably found it advantageous to include all Joyetech's VW products in the lawsuit. I'm sure they are listening to their lawyers and doing what is best for them " ) for Evolv to go after all the products the aforementioned companies offer !

The entire market will be at the mercy of Evolv . Do as we like, and offer no products that might compete with the DNA200 and you'll be fine ( for now ! ), otherwise be prepared for us to bring up our VW patent against your entire lineup of products.

When Evolv, first patented VW there were some rumblings that exactly this might happen, but Evolv went on a charm offensive and seeked to appease everyone by claiming, don't worry we're not evil, we're doing this for the benefit of all vapers, so that some shady patent trolls don't control the market.

I don't really know what Evolv are up to tbh and i will wait for more facts to surface, but based on what i've seen so far, i don't have a good feeling about this.

 

[Mazinny]

This was something that had me slightly perplexed as well: Evolv is selling their DNA200 boards to JT who are also selling several lines of other product that use the "infringing" technology and it's not an issue until JT says that they're taking the Reuleaux chassis and putting their own board in it, and that's when the fur hits the fan?
I found that the filing reads somewhat like it was written by an upset teenager, throwing unrelated justifications at their argument in an attempt to add gravity to it..

Exactly ! Their narrative on the supposed chain of events that led to this complaint, has absolutely nothing to do with the legal basis of this lawsuit, namely a variable wattage patent.

 

[smacuser]

 

[Woofer]

Yes Evolv should be very busy in research and development and then gift that effort and expense to the world.
The cloners are waiting for their next good idea to steal. <tik toc>

 

[Rizzyking]

So you have proof joyetech have ripped off evolv proprietary tech great put up a link Woofer.

 

[Woofer]

So you have proof joyetech have ripped off evolv proprietary tech great put up a link Woofer.

You have prove that joyetech didn't, great put up a link Rizzyking.

 

[Rizzyking]

No but then I didn't make a blanket statement so have nothing to validate.

 

[Mazinny]

Yes Evolv should be very busy in research and development and then gift that effort and expense to the world.
The cloners are waiting for their next good idea to steal. <tik toc>

This case is not about cloning. No one is trying to sell their own board as a DNA board. The case is about VW, and whether Evolv have a right to that technology. It's not about the DNA200 board, or any other DNA board for that matter. Their patent is for VW.

I am actually hoping this goes to a jury. At least we'll have some certainty in the industry. If it's not upheld ( and there is a fair chance imo ), then so much for that. If it is upheld, then vendors should start paying a license fee to Evolv for every mod that has VW.

What isn't good imo, is for Evolv to have this patent in reserve, and use it selectively as a threat, coercive tool, bargaining chip etc... in future negotiations and disputes, in cases that have nothing to do with VW, just because their competitor or adversary uses VW in their products.

 

[roxynoodle]

Yes, the lawsuit is about whether Joyetech (and perhaps anyone but Evolv) can use VW on a vaporizer.

It is quite clear the rx200 chip is not a clone of the DNA200.

 

[beckdg]

Tapatyped

 

[Woofer]

This case is not about cloning.

I most certainly never said this was about cloning.

If it is upheld, then vendors should start paying a license fee to Evolv for every mod that has VW.

I agree.

Yes, the lawsuit is about whether Joyetech (and perhaps anyone but Evolv) can use VW on a vaporizer.

Without an agreement and compensation to Evolv LLC.

It is quite clear the rx200 chip is not a clone of the DNA200.

 

[Rizzyking]

Even if they win it will only affect the US the Chinese company's will just leave the US and evolv is no better off in any regard. That's if the case can be settled before your deeming regulations come in and if it isn't those regs will likely be all the justification the Chinese company's will need to leave the US. I'm not really seeing any plus here for evolv if they do win and I really don't think they will, it will be an empty win gaining nothing and changing nothing in the grand scheme of things.