Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !

[roxynoodle]

@Woofer what about the rx200 chip makes you feel its a clone? The screen and button placement is similar to fit in the same chassis, but otherwise I don't see it. The components are different and arranged differently. They don't function the same either.

Several boards have 200W capability. None of them function the same as the DNA200.

Several boards use tc/tl, but not the same as the DNA200. Certainly none of them use escribe or similar software. I don't have an sx mini ML class so I haven't seen Yihi's software, but from what I've read here they are quite different.

 

[Woofer]

@Woofer what about the rx200 chip makes you feel its a clone?

I have not said the rx200 is a dna clone.
I (self centeredly) thought you were responding to my earlier post.

Since I had not mention that clone bit ever, I went . As in elifino what Roxy talking about.

 

[roxynoodle]

I have not said the rx200 is a dna clone.
I (self centeredly) thought you were responding to my earlier post.

Since I had not mention that clone bit ever, I went . As in elifino what Roxy talking about.

It was just a general statement, not directed to you or anyone. I figured your emoticon was your way of saying you thought I was full of it. So I asked.

 

[Woofer]

It was just a general statement, not directed to you or anyone. I figured your emoticon was your way of saying you thought I was full of it. So I asked.

Well I am glad you did, I don't want you thinking that and me not knowing.
I promise if I ever think you are full of it I will let you know in a direct statement.

I partially blame @Mazinny who posted to me "This case is not about cloning."

 

[defdock]

Tl:dr

Figured this would happen within the ecig community eventually due to how some already acted on the "clone" wars.

What gets me, is how completely asinine the situation is. Something similar would be like, Apple suing Samsung for implementing a camera in their phones...

Smh

 

[Mazinny]

Yes Evolv should be very busy in research and development and then gift that effort and expense to the world.
The cloners are waiting for their next good idea to steal. <tik toc>

I most certainly never said this was about cloning.

Ah ok my bad !? When you said "cloners" are waiting for their next good idea to steal, the implication ( to me ) was that you consider this present case cloning as well.

 

[Douggro]

Even if they win it will only affect the US the Chinese company's will just leave the US and evolv is no better off in any regard. That's if the case can be settled before your deeming regulations come in and if it isn't those regs will likely be all the justification the Chinese company's will need to leave the US. I'm not really seeing any plus here for evolv if they do win and I really don't think they will, it will be an empty win gaining nothing and changing nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If you consider that there are three main lines of possible outcomes from this case, what will happen with each?

1. Evolv loses with their patent invalidated. The vaping hardware landscape remains virtually unchanged. Evolv may go under due to legal expenses incurred in the suit.
2. Evolv wins, gets a judgement award from Joyetech. Evolv then sends compliance notifications to all the other manufacturers along with a licensing structure option. Manufacturers decide not to license and withdraw all infringing product from the US market. Evolv gets nothing in licensing fees from offshore and has to hit the US makers.. (Oh, wait, who are those companies and their relative market share in the US?) Evolv then files suits against the remaining manufacturers to cash out on infringement claims.
   
3. Evolv wins, gets a judgement award from Joyetech. Evolv then sends compliance notifications to all the other manufacturers along with a licensing structure option. Manufacturers decide to pay the licensing fee. Evolv has a new revenue stream to add to their coffers.

Outcome #3 is the best for Evolv. How it will impact the cost we pay for hardware will depend on what Evolv comes up with for the licensing fee structure.
Outcome #2 will make some people rich at Evolv, but long-term it's not a winner for the company.
Outcome #1 sucks for Evolv but they potentially could weather through and maintain their current business. But their reputation is going to take a hit and make other companies leery of dealing with them.

 

[Mazinny]

If you consider that there are three main lines of possible outcomes from this case, what will happen with each?

1. Evolv loses with their patent invalidated. The vaping hardware landscape remains virtually unchanged. Evolv may go under due to legal expenses incurred in the suit.
2. Evolv wins, gets a judgement award from Joyetech. Evolv then sends compliance notifications to all the other manufacturers along with a licensing structure option. Manufacturers decide not to license and withdraw all infringing product from the US market. Evolv gets nothing in licensing fees from offshore and has to hit the US makers.. (Oh, wait, who are those companies and their relative market share in the US?) Evolv then files suits against the remaining manufacturers to cash out on infringement claims.
   
3. Evolv wins, gets a judgement award from Joyetech. Evolv then sends compliance notifications to all the other manufacturers along with a licensing structure option. Manufacturers decide to pay the licensing fee. Evolv has a new revenue stream to add to their coffers.

Outcome #3 is the best for Evolv. How it will impact the cost we pay for hardware will depend on what Evolv comes up with for the licensing fee structure.
Outcome #2 will make some people rich at Evolv, but long-term it's not a winner for the company.
Outcome #1 sucks for Evolv but they potentially could weather through and maintain their current business. But their reputation is going to take a hit and make other companies leery of dealing with them.

There is a fourth possible outcome as well, Joyetech might settle. I doubt it, but it's within the realm of possbility.

 

[Douggro]

There is a fourth possible outcome as well, Joyetech might settle. I doubt it, but it's within the realm of possbility.

Just make that a derivative of #2. Joyetech settling basically sets Evolv up with a precedence of it not being worth fighting suits they file and the other manufacturers will fall in line.

 

[Woofer]

Let me add a possible scenario.

Evolv and Joyetech settle, possibly out of court, with a binding NDA on both parties.
The vaping hardware landscape remains virtually unchanged from our (consumers/users) point of view.

 

[WharfRat1976]

What do you call 300 lawyers buried up to their chins in concrete?






NOT ENOUGH CONCRETE!

Patent cases and lawyers have single handedly destroyed innovation. Evolv is patent trolling here. They are throwing manure against the wall to see if any will stick. I bought some DNA boards awhile back....never again.

 

[Douggro]

Let me add a possible scenario.

Evolv and Joyetech settle, possibly out of court, with a binding NDA on both parties.
The vaping hardware landscape remains virtually unchanged from our (consumers/users) point of view.

Points for lateral thinking.
I don't think it's a very likely outcome, but anything is possible.

 

[Douggro]

What do you call 300 lawyers buried up to their chins in concrete?

A waste of good concrete? Unless it's also being used to re-pave a freeway.

 

[f1vefour]

What do you call 300 lawyers buried up to their chins in concrete?






NOT ENOUGH CONCRETE!

Will technically I would say not enough lawyers. Additional lawyers will displace the concrete increasing the height.

 

[Asbestos4004]

to assume Joyetech, YIHI and these other chip manufacturers are copying Evolv's work is just ludicrous. I mean, just because EVERY time Evolv releases a new product, YIHI follows up with a very similar one means nothing. It's strictly coincidental.
I'm surprised they waited this long.

 

[JMarca]

Due to the current situation with patent/copyright law it's very likely they'll either win or settle. The problem is people are coming out with this and that but they don't patent the idea behind it. I've been reading the patent over and over it's really broad, they have a really good chance to win and they know it.

Question is how far will they take it, they don't seem interested in licensing what so ever, they want all future devices to be powered by Evolv that's a very high risk high reward situation. Question is will Joyetech go for it and if they (Evolv) win how far will they take it in the future? If you read the court docs they don't want payments and restitution they want Joyetech on board to fill orders, that's even more scary.

 

[USMCotaku]

Being overly broad may lessen their chances of winning actually.

 

[JMarca]

Being overly broad may lessen their chances of winning actually.

In some cases that may be true, but in this case what else do you have to compare it to?

All they'd have to submit is 2 sample devices from each company and then point out what they do to achieve a certain parameter such as voltage/wattage or temperature control and with nothing to compare it to they'd easily win. Doesn't help Joyetech one bit that the RX looks like an exact clone of DNA 200 mod, in the judge's eyes it's a direct knock off. Remember the likelyhood of the judge being a vaper is VERY small.

 

[Lighty269]

Variable Wattage is what is at stake here, don't be fooled! When you look back in time, variable wattage has been around since the light bulb. Not to mention how about a variable wattage hair dryer. I mentioned before a variable wattage soldering iron, that has variable temperature control. This is not new technology, it was just applied to the vapor industry. What may happen here is the patent may be challenge and JT would have every right to do so. This is what happened to Apple, which was challenged by Samsung. With all that is going on in the world today in our industry, this is nothing but trouble for the vaping industry. I own both devices and like both of them, so I am not picking any side here. This could end up be a bad decision by Evolv.

 

[fishwater]

I keep seeing it mentioned in this thread how Evolv will go after all the other mfrs in the marketplace. Where has that ever been said by Evolv? Are there other suits pending? They are going after one mfr that they had a working relationship with who they feel stole their design.

I am really starting to feel so so sorry for these poor Chinese mfrs that the big bad wolf Evolv is making their lives difficult, how dare they!

Stop demonizing a company for trying to protect their market share which if I recall how the patent system is supposed to work. China has been cloning & putting out garbage for as long as I've been alive.