Evolv sues Joyetech over VW technology !

[Asbestos4004]

I don't think anyone said they WILL sue everybody else, just that if this goes well for them, they could. IMO, for the case to look less like them being sour over the rx200 doing so well, they SHOULD sue every company using VW that hasn't licensed it through them....otherwise it just looks like they are targeting a competitor instead of "protecting" their intellectual property.

You're right. I used my words loosely to respond to crx's suggestion that no other companies should be mentioned in this thread. My post that he quoted was in response to those who chose to bash evolv for protecting their work. My point was without evolv, these other companies would have nothing to copy. Crx chose to remove the point from context and split hairs. What else is new?

 

[Mazinny]

Another way this case could be acceptable, is if when eVolve received the patent, they applied it universally, to all companies manufacturing VW devices, and asked for licensing fees (of course, some may have fought it, and the patent may not have held up for reasons listed prior in this thread). Instead, they basically stated "we aren't going to enforce this patent, go ahead and keep doing what you all have been doing", but suddenly pull out the patent against ONE company that is making a competitive mod.

And this may end up being their undoing. Even if it's determined that the patent isn't overly broad and there is not a 'prior art' exception, Joyetech likely has a very strong case based on Equitable Estoppel ( even in a jury trial, which Evolv has requested ). We shall see.

 

[Marc411]

While I'm not arguing that both do VW other than the size of the board the components on the board and the build design have not been cloned. Folks are stating they are exactly the same, am I missing something?

 

[Asbestos4004]

While I'm not arguing that both do VW other than the size of the board the components on the board and the build design have not been cloned. Folks are stating they are exactly the same, am I missing something?

View attachment 540298

No, cloning isn't the issue.

 

[Oliver]

Hon Lik, the guy who invented the modern ecig lost control of his patent and I haven't noticed any lawsuits related to it but I'd bet he's doing okay.

There's been quite a few. The Hon Lik patents were sold to Imperial Tobacco two years ago. Imperial sued companies in national distribution, and they settled for undisclosed sums. I have no idea whether Hon Lik's benefited from any of this.

 

[sofarsogood]

There's been quite a few. The Hon Lik patents were sold to Imperial Tobacco two years ago. Imperial sued companies in national distribution, and they settled for undisclosed sums. I have no idea whether Hon Lik's benefited from any of this.

I noticed that Hon Lik participated in an ecig symposium in Poland. He gave the opening and closing speech. He was clearly the honored guest. In the photos I've seen he appears to me to be happy and supremely proud, which he richly deserves to be.

 

[Woofer]

What bothers me about this case, is eVolve basically promised they wouldn't use the patent against companies unless they were cloning their boards, that they only applied for the patent to keep OTHERS from doing the "patent troll" thing.

I keep seeing this with no reference to where it was said. Regardless, they granted a patent and have every right to exercise it to their best interests.

reward companies for making their own devices, instead of ones that are just copying other companies goods". We are finally in a place where this is possible to do......Well, this case is now affecting that ability (or will, if eVolve wins).

Might, perhaps, maybe NOT will, you don't know the future. In the unlikely event you do know the future can we talk Powerball?

 

[crxess]

What else is new?

Evolv is going after Joyetech for one reason only. Joyetech USA. There is not another China Manufacturing Company with a USA Based(owned) Operation.

The only other action that will get consideration - with possible financial gain - is to start going after every US B&B and US Based Online business selling VW devices.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I see.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Evolv is going after Joyetech for one reason only. Joyetech USA. There is not another China Manufacturing Company with a USA Based(owned) Operation.

The only other action that will get consideration - with possible financial gain - is to start going after every US B&B and US Based Online business selling VW devices.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I see.

Sorry you still don't see the point of the post you seem to have a problem with... or the context. But for you, I'll refrain from mentioning any other companies, for any reason. Call it my way of giving back.

 

[crxess]

Sorry you still don't see the point of the post you seem to have a problem with... or the context. But for you, I'll refrain from mentioning any other companies, for any reason. Call it my way of giving back.

No, you just missed mine. First, Evolv seems to have turned a blind eye to Yihi and the boards are definitely different. Second, yihi is an actual Board manufacturer with many NOT Evolv designs.........though, yes, they have vw incorporated in some way.

Weed eater

 

[Asbestos4004]

No, you just missed mine. First, Evolv seems to have turned a blind eye to Yihi and the boards are definitely different. Second, yihi is an actual Board manufacturer with many NOT Evolv designs.........though, yes, they have vw incorporated in some way.

Weed eater

My point was yihi wouldn't have Jack without evolv. I was making the point to the evolv haters that don't think they have a right to protect their work.

 

[crxess]

My point was yihi wouldn't have Jack without evolv. I was making the point to the evolv haters that don't think they have a right to protect their work.

Oh, well that's different. I don't hate Evolv, or Brandon.....don't know of the other partner. I just hate what it may do to the industry at a critical time.

I also hate that we must slam on any one company to bolster another.

You are correct in insistance we (Might) be nowhere had Evolv not designed a vw vaping device. Then again there are other great minds and now we will never know.

Imagine the shear number of lost Vapers, and Reckless Mech users that may have happened had they been held hostage 4-5 years ago.

Even Brandon admittedly did not care about the Low end market.

Is there a significant Difference between Low end VW and High End VW?
Well, other than the profit margin and settlement value

 

[Douggro]

My point was yihi wouldn't have Jack without evolv. I was making the point to the evolv haters that don't think they have a right to protect their work.

Hopefully I'm not being thrown under the "Evolv Haters" bus just because I have questions about the validity of their patent..
The courts, for all their flaws and imperfections, will figure this out for us. I think that's what they're supposed to do after all..
Then again, Congress is supposed to do their jobs as well. But that would keep them away from their partisan bickering they seem to value more..
But I digress. Again.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Hopefully I'm not being thrown under the "Evolv Haters" bus just because I have questions about the validity of their patent..
The courts, for all their flaws and imperfections, will figure this out for us. I think that's what they're supposed to do after all..
Then again, Congress is supposed to do their jobs as well. But that would keep them away from their partisan bickering they seem to value more..
But I digress. Again.

Nope....I don't think there's room for you under that bus, nor do I think you belong there. Patent law is so far above my head, I can't even see it's belly! I agree with you, the courts will figure it out. I'm pretty sure evolv knows exactly why they went after joyetech and I'm equally confident that joyetech knows too. I'd even wager that nobody in this thread knows what those reasons are. It'll all come out eventually.

 

[ScandaLeX]

to assume Joyetech, YIHI and these other chip manufacturers are copying Evolv's work is just ludicrous. I mean, just because EVERY time Evolv releases a new product, YIHI follows up with a very similar one means nothing. It's strictly coincidental.
I'm surprised they waited this long.

But Evolv is only going after JT.......which makes me think the rest have nothing to do with any of this.

!!! G*NOTE FIVE !!!

 

[ScandaLeX]

Due to the current situation with patent/copyright law it's very likely they'll either win or settle. The problem is people are coming out with this and that but they don't patent the idea behind it. I've been reading the patent over and over it's really broad, they have a really good chance to win and they know it.

Question is how far will they take it, they don't seem interested in licensing what so ever, they want all future devices to be powered by Evolv that's a very high risk high reward situation. Question is will Joyetech go for it and if they (Evolv) win how far will they take it in the future? If you read the court docs they don't want payments and restitution they want Joyetech on board to fill orders, that's even more scary.

If this is the case, then they have a high regard for themselves & their product. I'm not impressed by either & have already made the decision I wouldn't buy another Evolv anything. Their boards are hit 'n miss- too much inconsistency for the money.



!!! G*NOTE FIVE !!!

 

[crxess]

Not attempting to sound negative. Simply a thought from reading the Filing.

Evolve decided, since JT/Wismec released a Second Chip option, They(and no other manufacturer) should abide by a License agreement.(so far, not required by any other manufacturer)
This, By reading the Filing, was brought on By the Huge Retail difference in the (2) Reuleaux versions.

It seems the only reasonable License outcome to satisfy Evolv would have been Price prohibitive or Resale Price Restricted, forcing a close price match between Versions.

Assuming this is really about vw rights, I would be concerned with future sales health of the entire VW market. I know of at least 1/2 Dozen 200w VW mods, as of recent releases, currently available.

This brings me back to my concern over what is High or low end and if it really matters anymore.

 

[Woofer]

I wouldn't buy another Evolv anything. Their boards are hit 'n miss- too much inconsistency for the money.

I don't really care what you buy but for the sake of balancing opinions; I have two Evolv boards in Vaporshark rDNA 40s, one is an early pre order and the other a black Friday early large screen. Both have been performed perfectly in TL and non TL use. They were all I used for about 1.5 years. They look great and they work great.

You had a bad experience I had a good one, let it go already, please.

 

[ScandaLeX]

I don't really care what you buy but for the sake of balancing opinions; I have two Evolv boards in Vaporshark rDNA 40s, one is an early pre order and the other a black Friday early large screen. Both have been performed perfectly in TL and non TL use. They were all I used for about 1.5 years. They look great and they work great.

You had a bad experience I had a good one, let it go already, please.

And I applaud you for having a wonderful experience but you don't get to tell me what I or anyone else can express. You don't like my post, use the ignore feature.

!!! G*NOTE FIVE !!!

 

[Douggro]

Nope....I don't think there's room for you under that bus, nor do I think you belong there. Patent law is so far above my head, I can't even see it's belly! I agree with you, the courts will figure it out. I'm pretty sure evolv knows exactly why they went after joyetech and I'm equally confident that joyetech knows too. I'd even wager that nobody in this thread knows what those reasons are. It'll all come out eventually.

Well, dang. I know I've put on some weight recently, but I didn't think y'all would notice, nor that it would keep me from fitting under the bus.

The filing has a large number of references to the Reuleaux, and the timing seems to fit based on the mentions in the filing that this was probably "the straw that broke the camel's back." What we have no idea about is whether there was any formal or informal agreement between Evolv and Jaybo/Wismec/Joyetech about exclusivity of the design being only as a DNA200 mod. That's something that would be litigated as a separate issue and only brought into the patent case as a piece of supporting evidence for the infringement claim.

Patent law has its own intricacies, and what seems to be "applied common sense" often goes out the window when these cases are argued. I don't have a law degree, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I've picked up enough of how the system works watching other cases wend through the system to get the basic gist.

Next steps will be a preliminary hearing, setting up discovery and depositions and scheduling the next hearing date. Case load in the court will determine how long it will take before we see any more developments. Barring a settlement, this case could take one to two years to resolve. Also interesting to note that the court filed in, the CDCA, is home to the Hon. Otis Wright. Judge Wright has history dealing with patent/copyright trolls, notably the Prenda Law cases, and was the first to slap sanctions on them for their activities.