Exceeding battery amperage

[Arvellon]

Hi,

I was wondering if it's safe to exceed a battery's max amperage just a little.
I'm using the Vandy Vape Pulse BF squonk mod (single battery), with the Vandy Vape Mesh rda. I find it difficult to get a right build for this setup because the resistance can't be too low but it also has to be lower than .3 because the single battery can't power this (or higher) well enough. So I finally got a right build (dual spaced coils, 6 wraps, Kanthal A1 22G), but since the resistance is .191, and according to Ohm's Law this gets me 21.99A and my Samsung 25R has a max amperage of 20A, I'm not sure if this is safe.

So if anyone could tell me if this is safe or not. Or if anyone has a great build for this specific setup, please do tell

Thanks in advance

 

[untar]

It isn't a good idea to exceed the CDR rating of a battery, it should be seen as the maximum. Especially when you're using mechs you need to adhere to basic safety practices. The CDR isn't a constant value anyways and only applies to new, unused batteries. If you already build over the CDR then that will get worse and worse over time.

Put in a lower mass build (eg 5 wrap dual parallel 28g wire) and you should have no problem, your battery won't struggle powering that.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

It is never a good idea to exceed the CDR of any cell.
Exceeding it by a small amount most likely won't cause catastrophic failure, the damage is cumulative.
The harder they're pushed the faster they degrade / shorter lifespan both overall & between recharge cycles.
Problem is, as they age they lose capacity which reduces their ability to produce amps safely.

If safety is a priority don't exceed the CDR.

 

[Chuck64]

Hell No!

 

[Tralfaz]

ATTN Novice Mech Users: Do not build like this - Tralfaz.

I regularly build between .09 and .14 on my Pulse and other single and dual battery parallel unregulated mods. I use VTC5a, 25R, and HE4 18650s and iJoy and Efest five prong 20700s with no issues. Just make sure your battery wraps are in good condition and check your batteries for warmth periodically. If they feel hot, set the mod down for a while. This is especially important if you chain vape like I do.

 

[LewisW295]

Ignore everyone saying it "might" anything. Overstrrssing a battery will lead to finger amputation at some point. Violently.

 

[LewisW295]

I regularly build between .09 and .14 on my Pulse and other single and dual battery parallel unregulated mods. I use VTC5a, 25R, and HE4 18650s and iJoy and Efest five prong 20700s with no issues. Just make sure your battery wraps are in good condition and check your batteries for warmth periodically. If they feel hot, set the mod down for a while. This is especially important if you chain vape like I do.

Sorry but I have to disagree with that statement. CDR is there for a reason and wraps, whilst an important aspect to batteries, are moot when it comes to physically pushing the battery beyond its limit.

 

[Tralfaz]

ATTN Novice Mech Users: Do not build like this - Tralfaz

I'm not suggesting that anyone else build like I do. I'm merely stating that I have had no issues in the three or so years I've been using unregulated mods. There are plenty of experienced vapers that build low like I do. The drain I put on my batteries lasts 2-4 seconds at a time. If I were completing the circuit for minutes at a time that would be different.

 

[LewisW295]

I'm not suggesting that anyone else build like I do. I'm merely stating that I have had no issues in the three or so years I've been using unregulated mods. There are plenty of experienced vapers that build low like I do. The drain I put on my batteries lasts 2-4 seconds at a time. If I were completing the circuit for minutes at a time that would be different.

The key part being your experience as well as other factors. I am just of the belief that it shouldn't be encouraged due to the inherent dangers involved but if people do push that hard, I don't judge

 

[Tralfaz]

ATTN Novice Mech Users: Do not build like this - Tralfaz

My intention was to illustrate that there are many vapers who build low without issue and that OP needn't feel too worried about his .191 ohm build so long as his batteries are in good condition and he keeps an eye on them.

 

[stols001]

Look this is a new mech mod user, I think. I don't really care what you do to "your" body and etc. @Tralfaz , it's your choice. And, I don't know that there are "so many" people who build like you do, the majority of successful mech users respect their batteries. So, if you experience a vent at some point, and you're fine with that, well, the only place I'd take issue is that your vented battery is going to cause society to look on vaping more unfavorably.

However, spreading the "bravado" in someone new to a mech mod really isn't so great, and you directly stated he would be "fine' doing that, which is a) not true and b) you have no way of knowing whether he will come to harm or not. That is beyond unsafe, telling a new mech user to forget about his battery's rating.

To the OP, things can get even more complicated. Typically, batteries (even authentics) can be somewhat over-rated. I will link you to a couple battery blogs and Mooch's has a table where he has tested actual, authentic batteries and what their TRUE specs are. You need to check that table and see how much power your battery actually has, and in the last cell of Mooch's table, he lists authentic, reputable sellers, and you should most emphatically purchase from them if you aren't already.

Also, when starting out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving yourself a little headroom. Even if you use an ohm's reader to calculate your build, most of them aren't crazy reliable as far as precision, so you still want to leave yourself a little headroom in your build, because if you fall too far below your battery's specs, however you achieve it, well, you may (if not at once) eventually wind up with problems and issues, the kind that you don't want.

I usually suggest to new users (whatever battery you are using) to start somewhere around 0.4 or even 0.5. The point is not to necessarily achieve the best vape right out of the gate, but to get a handle on using new equipment safely, and without issues. You can certainly experiment with other builds as you go.

Also, if it's an exotic or dual coil build, you do need to factor in how much "work" your battery will be doing extra, in order to heat and power your build.

You have the rest of your life to play with mech mods, start out guided by "safety" and not someone's "opinion" that exceeding the CDR is perfectly "safe." It isn't, not by a long shot, and it's ALSO FAR FAR away from best practice when using a mech. No offense, but offering up this kind of stuff is really a bad idea.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/baditudes-blogs.7609/

Best of luck,

Anna

 

[IMFire3605]

My intention was to illustrate that there are many vapers who build low without issue and that OP needn't feel too worried about his .191 ohm build so long as his batteries are in good condition and he keeps an eye on them.

All well and good that you have yet to have an issue. I have to echo @LewisW295 , especially with the fact this is the "New Members" sub-forum, right at the top of the list, and some young just into vaping viewer will see and view this section first thing. Not suggested posting such advanced and very highly dangerous replies that a person without the first inkling of what Ohms Law is nor how it works can see it. Just be more mindful of your replies in this sub-forum when it comes to battery safety please is all I am saying.

O/T

@Arvellon , going over any battery CDR is not being safe. Remember with a mech the only safety circuit between you and a catastrophic battery failure is the region above your shoulders and between your ears, use some common sense. Do you redline the tachometer in your car everywhere you go constantly and not expect the motor to boom eventually, same principle with a battery in any vaping device, the battery is the motor of your mod. Be gentle and with your batteries and your batteries will most times treat you well.

As suggested above, on a mech and you are not getting optimal coil heat ramp up time, don't go to more massive thicker wire or builds, you go opposite that with thinner wire and less metal mass coils. 24awg wire is about the thickest wire I ever use, 22 and 20 awg being so thick takes to long to ramp up for my taste, most my mech builds are simple 26awg NiChrome 80, 5 or 6 wrap dual coils on a 3mm ID, gets me in around .2 to .25ish Ohms, if I go parallel coils then I use 28awg to offset how low the build turns out with 24 and 26 so I am not so demanding on my batteries.

 

[Tralfaz]

Bravado has nothing to do with it. Obviously I would recommend to any new mech vaper that they should build within the limits of their batteries. I did when I started and then I incrementally tapered my resistance from there to eventually accommodate my taste. Any unregulated vaping comes with some risk and I absolutely would not recommend increasing that risk to a novice.

 

[Baditude]

I regularly build between .09 and .14 on my Pulse and other single and dual battery parallel unregulated mods. I use VTC5a, 25R, and HE4 18650s and iJoy and Efest five prong 20700s with no issues. Just make sure your battery wraps are in good condition and check your batteries for warmth periodically. If they feel hot, set the mod down for a while. This is especially important if you chain vape like I do.

I'm not suggesting that anyone else build like I do. I'm merely stating that I have had no issues in the three or so years I've been using unregulated mods. There are plenty of experienced vapers that build low like I do. The drain I put on my batteries lasts 2-4 seconds at a time. If I were completing the circuit for minutes at a time that would be different.

My intention was to illustrate that there are many vapers who build low without issue and that OP needn't feel too worried about his .191 ohm build so long as his batteries are in good condition and he keeps an eye on them.

The CDR (maximum continuous discharge rate) specification isn't just a "suggestion". It's the standard spec for the maximum operating limit of the cell practiced by all legitimate battery manufacturers.

When you push the button on a mech mod, you complete a DC circuit. The battery in your mod doesn't know or doesn't care what the resistance of the coil wire is. All the battery knows is the circuit is complete and that it has to obey Ohms Law. It will attempt to fire the coil whether it has enough current or not. If it doesn't have enough current, it will stress the battery, age it prematurely, and possibly cause it to vent or go into thermal runaway.

Remember what section this post is in: New Members section. Telling a novice that you practice unsafe battery practices does a disservice to the entire vaping community. That's like telling a teenager that you don't practice safe sex and you've never caught a venereal disease or never gotten a female pregnant, so it's ok to not use a condom. Just maybe you've just been lucky.

You know that these batteries were never designed to be used as a stand alone cell in any kind of device. They were designed to be used within a battery pack with a battery management system (BMS). When the manufacturer sets the CDR, its assuming the battery will be used in a battery pack. Using them alone without a BMS adds additional stress to a single battery.

battery pack with BMS

Sony was quite clear about this and expressed their warnings below:

Vapers need to be educated about battery safety and accept the responsibility to use batteries safely. Telling a novice its ok to exceed a battery's maximum discharge rate because YOU do it is an extremely BAD IDEA. Next time, keep your personal opinions like this to yourself.

 

[Baditude]

I was wondering if it's safe to exceed a battery's max amperage just a little. So if anyone could tell me if this is safe or not.

If you find you have to exceed the battery's maximum continuous discharge rate to get a satisfying vape. DON'T. As stated above, the CDR (maximum continuous discharge rate) specification isn't just a "suggestion". It's the standard spec for the maximum operating limit of the cell practiced by all legitimate battery manufacturers. It's like a line drawn in the sand. Cross that line and be prepared to accept the consequences.

Either make a safer build or use a battery device (dual battery mech or a regulated mod) that can power it.

 

[Tralfaz]

You guys are right. I'm so used to posting in the setup thread here that I wasn't really considering the fact that this is the new members forum. The info I posted could be hazardous for a beginner. I added an edit to my above posts.

 

[dom qp]

You guys are right. I'm so used to posting in the setup thread here that I wasn't really considering the fact that this is the new members forum. The info I posted could be hazardous for a beginner. I added an edit to my above posts.

For what it's worth, I think they're being a little hard on you.

1) If we're being extra strict to compensate for new member ignorance, maybe we should consider not even giving mech advice at all. Someone using mechs should know better, and your personal experience is constructive. I'd hope someone using a mech mod has the common sense to understand you're not saying it's safe; you're just saying it's something you do or have done.

2) Internal resistance, voltage sag, and voltage drop (especially on the Pulse) likely means he's pulling less than 20 amps.

Personally I keep it within the CDR envelope, but my goal is to avoid blowing up. I don't really care if my batteries last less long and I have to buy new ones after 6 months. I'm also a fan of taking off a door and touching the battery after a couple drags.

My piece of advice to people new to mechs and picking up a pulse: unless you know what you're doing and using a 30A 20700, stick to a single coil RDA. Much easier. You can get a great 0.25-0.29 build and use it with a good 20A battery.

 

[Baditude]

If we're being extra strict to compensate for new member ignorance, maybe we should consider not even giving mech advice at all. Someone using mechs should know better, and your personal experience is constructive. I'd hope someone using a mech mod has the common sense to understand you're not saying it's safe; you're just saying it's something you do or have done.

Come on Dom, you've been here long enough to know...

... especially when addressing questions from novices in the New Members Forum.

 

[dom qp]

Come on Dom, you've been here long enough to know...

View attachment 739669

... especially when addressing questions from novices in the New Members Forum.

But officer, I thought she meant she was a student in college!

 

[Baditude]

But officer, I thought she meant she was a student in college!