Facts that aren't facts

[Minimike]

It is widely agreed on "facts" that are destroying our simple pleasures.

1. Second hand smoke is harmful. The big studies that "proved" this have been discounted, even by the ones doing the study. Yet we are faced with ever increasing bans on smoking in restaurants, airplanes, offices, automobiles, etc. These bans are using the disproven study to be the "scientific" backing for the bans. In reality, it is just some do-gooders that want to impose their will on the "unwashed low-lifes" out there.

2. Smoking is bad for your health. Smokers get cancer and COPD more than non-smokers. There has never been a valid study to ascertain this "fact" All "evidence" is merely hearsay and conjecture. In order to prove this "fact" we would have to select 10,000 babies at birth - purely random choices from all strata and locations. 5,000 would be raised in an absolutely tobaco free lifestyle and 5,000 would be forced to start smoking 1 pack of cigarettes a day, starting at age 14. Then, we could get some real facts.

 

[taz3cat]

Minimike, I am still trying to get my doctors to tell me how non-smoker, don't hang out with smokers, get COPD. A recent study showed that some people have a gene that causes lung cancer and it don't make any difference wheather you smoke or not. If you have the gene your chance of getting lung cancer is the same as those for a smoker with the gene.

Brain washed is the causation of lots of incorrect facts. If a lie is told often enough people will believe it.

P.S. doctor hate that question, because the don't really know what COPD is or what causes it in the first place. It is a catch all diagnoses.

 

[Mary Kay]

THMC Error Page
This is a joke page, just enter the home page and click on "The facts" The owner must think he is really funny..or maybe related to Elendil..JK! No flames Elendil..

This site supports your view, there are about 2,000 who don't. The problem being..we are trying to curb our use of analogs, not promote the use of them!
I agree the results of the 2.000 sites are skewed in the direction of "evil weed and all the harm it does to everything in the known universe"! Run hide your women and children! On the other hand dispite the hysteria, you can't deny that smoking makes you sick.

What really angers me is the tax on smoking. Now they are taxing beer by $2.00 a 6 pack BUT taxing liqior only 40 cents a bottle..can we say unfair to the less wealthy?
When Kennedy and his buddies tax scotch $20.00 a bottle ..then I say fair.

 

[taz3cat]

Marykay, I did not know we were trying to curb the use of any kind of tobacco products on this forum.

I know that cigarette can and does cause lung problems, I do know that. I was mainly discussing the fact that some facts are not facts. Whether it is about tobacco or e-cig.

 

[MonkeyMonk]

There was an experiment done that inadvertantly used previously used mice. The mice had previously been used in a smoking test. They were put on the dock to be shipped out and destroyed and were inadvertantly confused with the new mice arriving. Thus, the "smoking" mice were used in a different part of the lab and exposed to plutonium. All mice previously died. The smoking mice did not get cancer and did not die. The reason, smoking make a mucous layer in the lungs that works like a filter... thus, the plutonium did not get into their lungs inorder to cause the damage.

Give me a sec. and I'll edit and post the link.

BTW. Years ago, this study was presented to congress... who in essence quashed it.

Here's the link (it's an interesting read, the smoking mice are about 1/2 way down the page): http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/01/02/how_mass_media_may_shape.htm

 

[mamu]

Well, I'm sorry to put a damper on this but your facts that aren't facts are indeed facts.

Hop down to your local morgue and ask to view an autopsy on an old timer smoker who has died of lung cancer or COPD vs an autopsy on an old timer who has never smoked who also died of lung cancer or COPD.

The lung tissue will tell you the facts that the person who was a long term smoker who died of lung cancer or COPD did so because the lungs were gunked with tar and the tissue was destroyed by smoke-related chemicals. The alveoli (air sacs) of this person were simply crushed by the buid up of tar and also dysfunctional from smoke-related chemicals and the alveoli just couldn't work anymore. The lungs of a long term smoker are black and gooey - that indeed tells you the story.

The person who died of lung cancer or COPD who never smoked had dysfunctioning lungs that caused their condition, but their lung tissue is pink and although the alveoli were dysfunctional they are still open and airy.

Some people are born with genetic disorders such as Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency that predispose them to COPD and that's why they get it even though they've never smoked a cigarette in their life. I've seen the lungs of newborns via chest x-rays that were born with this deficiency and they have the lungs of an 80-year old emphysematous patient.

Some people are exposed to environmental factors such as asbestus and other carcinogens that cause their lung cancer or COPD. I live in a coal mining community where my ancestors were coal minors. Some died of lung cancer or COPD and never smoked a cigarette in their life. The daily breathing in of coal dust caused their condition. You don't need scientific research to figure that out even though there are numerous studies linking chronic breathing of coal dust and lung cancer and COPD.

So you can see that lung cancer and COPD can be gotten by anyone with a predisposition for it or exposure to environmental factors whether they're a smoker or not.

However, the tar and other chemical in cigarettes DO cause lung cancer and COPD and if you are a long term smoker that IS why you have lung cancer or COPD not because you had a predisposition for it but because your alveoli simply couldn't take the chemical and tar abuse any longer.

As for second hand smoke - if it's so safe go blow a puff of it in your grandchild's face and let me know if that doesn't make you queasy of that child breathing in that smoke. Do it over and over and over and let me know how safe you feel that is?

Go blow a puff of that second hand smoke anywhere near an asthmatic and watch the reaction when their lungs constrict and they start wheezing.

The bottom line is that all of us who are now vaping do so because we KNOW that smoking ciggies were bad for us - were NOT a healthy habit. Why would we switch otherwise? I mean if you think ciggies are safe and cause no harm - why are you vaping?

We know our lungs have degenerated from the build up of tar and chemicals and we KNOW why we are short of breath.

And we know that since vaping we're feeling much better, we have a nice pinkness to our cheeks instead of the dusky gray you see with some smokers, we're more energetic, we no longer get short of breath or as short of breath with activity. We can vape anywhere and not feel queasy being around children or asthmatics.

A while back I was singing and dancing with my granddaughter and then all of a sudden it hit me - I was not getting short of breath. Before, during my ciggie time, I would have to stop and sit and catch my breath.

So I say that you're facts that aren't facts are indeed facts!

 

[Kimpetuous]

There was an experiment done that inadvertantly used previously used mice. The mice had previously been used in a smoking test. They were put on the dock to be shipped out and destroyed and were inadvertantly confused with the new mice arriving. Thus, the "smoking" mice were used in a different part of the lab and exposed to plutonium. All mice previously died. The smoking mice did not get cancer and did not die. The reason, smoking make a mucous layer in the lungs that works like a filter... thus, the plutonium did not get into their lungs inorder to cause the damage.

Give me a sec. and I'll edit and post the link.

BTW. Years ago, this study was presented to congress... who in essence quashed it.

That's funny because I rarely got sick when I was smoking heavily and I used to say it was because my lungs were so covered in crap that not even a virus could live there. Maybe I wasn't that far off.

 

[MonkeyMonk]

All the info in the 2nd link I posted was really already in the 1st link, so I edited and deleted the 2nd link


(I'm just throwing out some readings, neither supporting nor not supporting. I do believe that our "government" and BP has hidden some truths from us. And, I do believe we were harmed more by nuclear testing than anyone will ever admit...)

 

[gashin]

Smoking kills - this is a fact. Anything else doesn't really matter in my mind.

 

[taz3cat]

There was an experiment done that inadvertantly used previously used mice. The mice had previously been used in a smoking test. They were put on the dock to be shipped out and destroyed and were inadvertantly confused with the new mice arriving. Thus, the "smoking" mice were used in a different part of the lab and exposed to plutonium. All mice previously died. The smoking mice did not get cancer and did not die. The reason, smoking make a mucous layer in the lungs that works like a filter... thus, the plutonium did not get into their lungs inorder to cause the damage.

Give me a sec. and I'll edit and post the link.

BTW. Years ago, this study was presented to congress... who in essence quashed it.

Here's the link (it's an interesting read, the smoking mice are about 1/2 way down the page): How Mass Media May Shape Deep Reality Assumptions? Lung Cancer, Smoke And The Trinity Test - Robin Good's Latest News

That was a interesting read, I have read some interesting thing on the National libairy Of Medicine, but I am not going to look them up again. I don't believe it will make any differance in the long run.

The facts are set in stone. Whether they are right or wrong we will never know for sure.

 

[MonkeyMonk]

Take a look at this old plate etching:

It is interesting to note that the body carriers were drawn as smokers. Is it possible, just possible that the mucous membrane that forms from smoking doesn't help to keep out the bad stuff?

Now, I realize that emphasema is real and it is mostly caused by smoking... I'm not negating the "evils" of smoke, but I am questioning, if there are "good" things to smoking that are being hidden from us....

 

[gashin]

There are - like how its known to cut Parkinson's and Alzheimers. But then the millions of people dying each year from lung cancer kinda gets more attention (rightly so in my opinion).

Take a look at this old plate etching:

It is interesting to note that the body carriers were drawn as smokers. Is it possible, just possible that the mucous membrane that forms from smoking doesn't help to keep out the bad stuff?

Now, I realize that emphasema is real and it is mostly caused by smoking... I'm not negating the "evils" of smoke, but I am questioning, if there are "good" things to smoking that are being hidden from us....

 

[MonkeyMonk]

BTW. Totally un-related... I read that it was published in money magazine that the swine flu will survive on US currency for 10 days and that money also carries pneumonia and I think it was streptoccous. I printed out the story that I read, but it's upstairs, if someone wants the URL just message me and I go hunt the print-out down. (My mother likes to put her fiber pills in a scanty kleenex next to her USC, so I printed it out to show her not to do it.)

To get swine flu a person with it would have to have coughed or sneezed or have gotten mucous on the bill and then one would have had to touch that area and then touch their mouth, eyes or an open wound.

(I know it's off topic, but I thought it of value.... old age mind wanders and questions many things...)

 

[gashin]

In my opinion, the swine flu is media hype - sure a few dozen people have died in the U.S. from it, but they were all immunocompromised from previous diseases. I wouldn't worry about it at all!

BTW. Totally un-related... I read that it was published in money magazine that the swine flu will survive on US currency for 10 days and that money also carries pneumonia and I think it was streptoccous. I printed out the story that I read, but it's upstairs, if someone wants the URL just message me and I go hunt the print-out down. (My mother likes to put her fiber pills in a scanty kleenex next to her USC, so I printed it out to show her not to do it.)

To get swine flu a person with it would have to have coughed or sneezed or have gotten mucous on the bill and then one would have had to touch that area and then touch their mouth, eyes or an open wound.

(I know it's off topic, but I thought it of value.... old age mind wanders and questions many things...)

 

[MonkeyMonk]

Sorry, off topic again, and maybe this is old news, but it looks like the swine flu might have come from the CDC itself.
Swine Flu Smoking Gun? CDC was Combining Flu Viruses in 2004

Had to edit because we were both posting at the same time. I believe it was the 1914 swine flu (Artic bodies exumed showed that was a swine flu) that came around like now, and not too much damage... then, that fall & winter returned more virulent and caused massive deaths.

Not thinking of now so much as the fall/winter. We are always at the doctors and hospitals at least 3 out of 7 days each week. More like 4 out of 7 with regular doctor visits included....

 

[taz3cat]

Take a look at this old plate etching:

It is interesting to note that the body carriers were drawn as smokers. Is it possible, just possible that the mucous membrane that forms from smoking doesn't help to keep out the bad stuff?

Now, I realize that emphasema is real and it is mostly caused by smoking... I'm not negating the "evils" of smoke, but I am questioning, if there are "good" things to smoking that are being hidden from us....

I had a bad experiance with some doctors who almost killed me with the wrong diagnosis, because I was a smoker. I have Cat-scans to prove it. When I quit smoking I did not have any emphasema scars in my left lung, by the time the doctors got thorugh with their mistakes 6 months later I have scars in my left lung. Of course, if I had died all would have been blamed on my having smoked. So, I question everything now.

I vape because I enjoy it. I don't hate smoking or smokers.

 

[Kate51]

MaMu, THANKS, this same discussion was just going on in
smoker's perceptions of e-cigs
I left a similar post there. People, do not be complacent about the juices we use in e-cigs. Would not be worth a poisoning at your house. Read the thread above, some of the giddiness about PV's is getting almost dangerous and ignorant. It just scares me, maybe because I'm old enough to know better!

 

[taz3cat]

In my opinion, the swine flu is media hype - sure a few dozen people have died in the U.S. from it, but they were all immunocompromised from previous diseases. I wouldn't worry about it at all!

It's sold a lot of anti-visus medications. they can now make some more for the next Panic.

 

[gashin]

Haha anti-viral vaccinations for other strains..... they think we're suckers but maybe we are?

It's sold a lot of anti-visus medications. they can
now make some more for the next Panic.

 

[taz3cat]

Haha anti-viral vaccinations for other strains..... they think we're suckers but maybe we are?

I was talking about that Tamiflu and the other one that everyone ran to their doctor and got for about $75.00 and a doctor bill.