Failure: dealing with the opposition.

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Zanderist

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I never would of thought that I would take to vaping so much that I would actually get offended or upset when someone give off some bad information about them.

Here is how the story goes,

Went out to dinner with 3 people, one my mother and the other I will just call the 'opposition'.

What I mean with opposition against ecigs in general.

What happened was my mother was trying to ask me about reducing my use of the vaporizer because the particles my get in the air and effect my father's breathing, he has COPD. I was trying to avoid that discussion because I didn't want to incite the opposition to go on a rant.

Of course it didn't work and the opposition went on with a statement that they read a study were "ecigs 'burn liquid' to produce a chemical reaction that make formaldehyde particles that are smaller than those found in cigarette smoke which meant they would get deeper into the lungs. ecigs are worse than cigarettes".

While this is being said I'm trying to cut in to correct on the burning liquid by mentioning the fire triangle and pointing out there is no chemical reaction but simply asked "will you allow me to finish", typical smug posturing.

What was bad was it had adrenalin running and I felt completely helpless, my position overrun. I honestly couldn't keep my composure that I just gave it up.

So much for the story, and now little commentary about the whole situation.


What keeps getting to me is people keep going off of dated information on technology that is in its infancy. Just consider alone the temperature control feature in a dna 40 chip and what that could mean in vapor safety. People are desperately trying to write the ecig off because they think of the history of the cigarette and how that turned out. It is not the same thing because combustion is gone, it's a device with its own history to make. With this said though I still feel from situations like above, that the ecig is doomed after all, and nothing can save it.
 

supertrunker

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i might have missed something, but PG is an ingredient in asthma inhalers and hospital ventilation systems and likely in your father's COPD medicine. You just happen to vape it.

There are a few million e-cig users that believe it's not doomed at all. And as time elapses, the health benefits will become apparent. I'd rather science judge that, than your mother.

I do like the burn liquid bit - my first wife could burn water she was such a great cook.

T
 

WattWick

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*Pops cap off atty, pushes button*

"Look. Once I release the button, everything stops. No combustion."

I know it's not the right thing to do, but I'd go straight for their intellectual throat at this point :D

Edit: Allow me to soften them edges after a sip of coffee. By going for their intellectual throat I mean politely allowing them to dig their own hole through fake-interest questions. For some reason I would have to sneak in the phrase "BEHOLD! The Power of Observation!" in there somewhere.
 
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zapped

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Some people will remain ignorant and close-minded despite all of our efforts. Its doubly frustrating when they happen to be family.

If this is important to you then IMO its time to make a stand.

The way I see it, you have two options.

You can either let the "opposition" continue to be condescending and allow them to walk all over you.

Or you can refuse to attend family functions while they are present.

Youre in the right here and if they care they will eventually come around.

If not....no big loss.

Ive had to do the same to my baby sister, for different reasons and while its not easy and hurts a little if I allow myself to dwell on it, I sleep just fine.
 
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FlamingoTutu

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Best offense is a good defense. Then again, sometimes it's just better to avoid the whole debate with some knot heads. Since it doesn't seem likely you can avoid this individual, do your homework, memorize it and print out a reputable study to back you up. When you see him (her?) again say you looked up his claims and didn't find anything that would stand up in the scientific community to back him up. State the facts, hand him the study and stand back and watch his lips flap like a fish out of water.
 

VapinWolf

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Just over a year ago I was an excited active member here. New to vaping, but loving it, loving this forum, became a supporting member.
Ran into problems. Decided to leave. Now I am back and see that not much has changed, but so much has changed LOL

You nailed it with 'technology in its infancy'
A year ago the common consensus on the forum was that vaping is completely safe. There is no such thing as second hand vapor. Being around someone who vapes does not expose you to anything. Basically it is perfectly clean and safe so I should be able to vape anywhere even in your face because it can't hurt anyone etc ad nauseum.
Fast forward. Now we know temps over 600 , well..not so safe. There can be some nasty byproducts. that yellow tar inside car windows has been replaced by a VG like goo. So many things we didn't know a year ago. Makes me wonder what we will know a year from now.
To allow the personal vaporizer (I hate the term e-cig) to make it's own history we have to start by admitting there is probably more we don't know compared to what we do.
Present our cause openly and honestly, outlying the benefits we know and the concerns we are unsure of with respect to others.
How can you intelligently educate non vapors when half the vaping community would argue that you are wrong no matter which side you argued?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

skoony

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Just over a year ago I was an excited active member here. New to vaping, but loving it, loving this forum, became a supporting member.
Ran into problems. Decided to leave. Now I am back and see that not much has changed, but so much has changed LOL

You nailed it with 'technology in its infancy'
A year ago the common consensus on the forum was that vaping is completely safe. There is no such thing as second hand vapor. Being around someone who vapes does not expose you to anything. Basically it is perfectly clean and safe so I should be able to vape anywhere even in your face because it can't hurt anyone etc ad nauseum.
Fast forward. Now we know temps over 600 , well..not so safe. There can be some nasty byproducts. that yellow tar inside car windows has been replaced by a VG like goo. So many things we didn't know a year ago. Makes me wonder what we will know a year from now.
To allow the personal vaporizer (I hate the term e-cig) to make it's own history we have to start by admitting there is probably more we don't know compared to what we do.
Present our cause openly and honestly, outlying the benefits we know and the concerns we are unsure of with respect to others.
How can you intelligently educate non vapors when half the vaping community would argue that you are wrong no matter which side you argued?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

generally vapor is just as safe as it was a year ago.
cigalikes still produce vapor at around 180 degrees F.
if you are running at 1.8 ohms or higher on a normal
voltage setting with vision or ego style batteries even
if they are VV or VW the increase in temperature generally
just creates and increase in vapor production. water still
vaporizes at 180 degrees atomizing the other ingredients.
however as you point out with the new DNA's maintaining
coil temperatures above 400 degrees F the potential for harm
increases as PG will boil at about 370 degrees F. you do not
want to boil PG. if the wicks can't supply enough juice or
the water not sufficient enough to atomize and carry away
the juice your not going to have e-juice vapor.lord knows
what will be in it.
:2c:
mike
 

VHRB2014

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Ya, E-cigs are not domed. Vape was just named the word of the year, ya, they are`nt dead.

People both in the US and the UK are getting a taste of sanity now and sanity once tasted, is very hard to deny.

In words of John Adams:
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
 

Codechopper

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Oct 27, 2014
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I went to a dinner party last week...the couple who owned the place were curious but allowed me to vape away. It was great not having to get up and head outside every time I opened a new beer.

Conversely, we had a pot luck at work on Wednesday. I announced that I was 3 weeks smoke free, and I'm a vaper. The interns we employ immediately started with the "it still has toxins in it." So, I went by the knowledge I have from reading ECF and schooled them...then asked if I should switch back to tobacco. I got silence. I finished lunch and vaped at my desk. I had a lot of folks come up and ask me about it...might have some converts now!

-E
 

v1k1ng1001

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Never argue with idiots ...waste of time.

If you can get a word in edgewise, Make your statement while defending your right to speak uninterrupted and call it done.

If they can't shut up long enough to let you finish then tell them they are an idiot and leave it go.

I agree. :toast:
 

supertrunker

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Oct 12, 2012
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Just over a year ago I was an excited active member here. New to vaping, but loving it, loving this forum, became a supporting member.
Ran into problems. Decided to leave. Now I am back and see that not much has changed, but so much has changed LOL

You nailed it with 'technology in its infancy'
A year ago the common consensus on the forum was that vaping is completely safe. There is no such thing as second hand vapor. Being around someone who vapes does not expose you to anything. Basically it is perfectly clean and safe so I should be able to vape anywhere even in your face because it can't hurt anyone etc ad nauseum.
Fast forward. Now we know temps over 600 , well..not so safe. There can be some nasty byproducts. that yellow tar inside car windows has been replaced by a VG like goo. So many things we didn't know a year ago. Makes me wonder what we will know a year from now.
To allow the personal vaporizer (I hate the term e-cig) to make it's own history we have to start by admitting there is probably more we don't know compared to what we do.
Present our cause openly and honestly, outlying the benefits we know and the concerns we are unsure of with respect to others.
How can you intelligently educate non vapors when half the vaping community would argue that you are wrong no matter which side you argued?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

We are the guinea pigs. What we are talking about is risk analysis; is smoking or vaping safer for your chances of living longer? [and why bother anyway?]

Vaping is less harmful than smoking on all available evidence - and not just by a small amount. Nobody sane argues that it is totally without risk. Nothing is.
I do take your point about respectful vaping and i also advocate use of deodorant and toothpaste for the general population, especially if i have to spend any time with them.

My problem with the ANTZ ( i hate the term, but it is) is that vaping is supposed to prove its safety first, whereas anything else gets proven safe or GRAS after years of use. Which is hardly a level playing field.

T
 

WattWick

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Feb 16, 2013
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I just don't understand getting worked up over what others think. I have had people say e-cigs are worse than smoking. I dismiss them with a laugh or smile...

If thinking was all they did, I'm fine with that. If someone tries to make me look like a ....., we got something to talk about. Again, in a polite manner. :)
 
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