Failure: dealing with the opposition.
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I am the size of an American football player. The last time someone insulted or belittled me was in 8th grade...I also have a lot of patience for those I consider inferior...
Not one person has died or had any complications with ecigs in 10 years.How many kicked the bucket from tobacco?
Normally I am right there with you on that. But since there are no min IQ requirements for voting or petitioning our elected officials , educating the masses is our best offense. Public opinion needs to be driven by facts not scare hype and myths.
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I'll leave that to the likes of BLU, njoy and VUSE with their television advertisements. Ignorant people respond well to commercials...
I've checked and not found any PG.
I feel that the whole asthma inhalers claim is lacking, I have yet to find a concrete example.
What I mean is a picture of the actual inhaler with its list of indigents showing that it contains PG.
It's one thing to have the idea suggested on the internet, but it totally solidifies the claim to see an actual picture of it.
I agree about the homework and have considered making an actual binder of vape research.
Personally I feel though debates with some people will get nowhere, when they refute on the grounds that the research didn't come from a 'trusted source'(i.e a big medical journal).
When comes to this idea, I don't feel I should just go after her with a 'I read it on the internet so it must be true' type explanation. I just don't know how certain people would feel about reading information and a website that has a pro-vape leaning to big with.
@ thread in general
For now my little skirmish is behind me and I've calmed down and simply moved on.
The only thing that I would like to address is how I feel and why I feel vaping is doomed.
It goes into the idea of the drive-by media, they tell a story about the dangers of ecigs and never follow up. Like it were some form of subliminal messaging that no one would question. Once enough bad information got out about the device it would kill off its market, like fat clogging the arteries. The media would felt it was doing 'consumer justice' by raising a red flag over ecigs, meanwhile fail to mention any new advances, as an example a completely different atomizer with totally safe medical grade inhalants that do no change composition from heat.
I that a negative type of attack from the media wouldn't be just about being told to do so, but that they have moral obligation against anything that provides pleasure. That it is being done for an assumed common good rather than reason.
I saw you point this out in another thread. Got me curious. Funny thing is that us vapers perpetuating this "fact" makes it harder to dig up real information on it. Basic searches for PG and asthma inhalers yield page after page of results from vaping forums.
I've tried looking up individual inhalers, but can't find any definite proof. On the other hand it is an inactive ingredient and as such not required to be listed as an ingredient.
My conclusion so far is that it has been used, but I can't find any evidence of it still being used.
I'm with you on this one. I would really like to know for sure.
It should be easy to find out - just contact the makers of an asthma inhaler and ask. Here are two links for contacting one of the makers of these inhalers:
Request More Information
Contact AstraZeneca
Request More Information
Contact AstraZeneca
you cant fix stupid and you cant reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into
sorry its your family
sorry its your family
Whatever I responded with, my wife's Doctor and my Doctor approve of the switch. My doctor even brought it up in relation to my labs/tests would be at the end.
I would help them take notice of quality ingredients (FDA -approved PG/VG/nicotine).
The problem that is taken advantage of is that their is no regulation for juices in having an FDA certification of quality. Some juice manufactures don't use USP-certified chemicals. China is really blatant about ignoring such standards.
In my thought, some of these issues will only get fixed by monitoring. I really look on juice vendor wed sites for those levels of quality. And I have contacted websites about not prominently seeing a listing. We can make our own progress, just be buying only quality made items.
I would help them take notice of quality ingredients (FDA -approved PG/VG/nicotine).
The problem that is taken advantage of is that their is no regulation for juices in having an FDA certification of quality. Some juice manufactures don't use USP-certified chemicals. China is really blatant about ignoring such standards.
In my thought, some of these issues will only get fixed by monitoring. I really look on juice vendor wed sites for those levels of quality. And I have contacted websites about not prominently seeing a listing. We can make our own progress, just be buying only quality made items.
Then you got the perfect reply for next time.
"I put more faith in my doctor than what you read on the internet"
"I put more faith in my doctor than what you read on the internet"
I'm a happy vaper but with the new high wattage devices isn't there questions about what by products are produced and I'm sure I've seen formaldehyde mentioned. I vape at no more then 35 watts and usual wattage is between 20&25 same tanks same coils but one isn't happy at 20 and one is lol. I think there are aspects coming up now that haven't applied to mainstream vaping before. One thing is for damn sure vaping is healthier for me and those around me then tobacco ever was.
I agree with you completely. While I believe that vaping is an incredibly healthier alternative to smoking, there really just isn't enough data out there to know about any negative results from long term use. As with everything, moderation is key. People once believed smoking was safe and we think they were nuts for ever believing that. Who knows if our grandkids will feel the same about us? The one thing that I think a lot of people don't think about when they defend the safety of vaping is the fact that it's completely unregulated at this point and that comes with risk. While I'm against regulation and massive taxation of vaping products, it's going to wind up happening eventually. We all know that will cause the price to climb but it will also pave the way for more studies. IMO, unless we build our own hardware and coils, and we make our own juice, we really don't know what we are ingesting. Who knows if clones and cheaper Chinese hardware could very possibly have harmful metals in the coils that release particles in the vapor? Who really knows if a juice we bought online is as pure as they claim it is? At this time it's a risk I'm willing to take because, to be honest, I haven't smoked in 15 years and I don't drink. I often feel like a social outcast who is looked at as a boring "Mr Goody Two Shoes". I also have a dad who has really bad COPD. He is on O2 every day and can't climb into the seat of his truck without having to sit for a few minutes to catch his breath. Out of courtesy, I won't vape near him or my mother, and I probably won't even let them know I vape. My reason behind this isn't because I feel it's bad...it's more that I don't want them to worry about it and no amount of arguing or sending them pro-vaping articles would help that. When your dad was young (if he's as old as mine is), doctors were suggesting that pregnant women smoke to keep their weight gain low and to keep the babies weight down to provide a less stressful birthing. You telling them there's no harm means nothing because they were told that by their doctors 50 years ago about cigarettes. My dad has a horrible life right now and if refraining from vaping around him helps make his day even a fraction better then I'm all for it. My wife lost both of her parents 3 years ago. Her mom died from cancer at 60 and her dad died 4 months later (on her moms birthday) from a heart attack at age 63. Our lives have not been the same since, and I treasure every second I spend with my parents. IMO, even attempting to prove the safety of vaping to them just isn't worth it.
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listing of inactive ingredients is not required for inhalers.
see link below.
here's the relevant part.
" Current problems encountered with inactive ingredients include benzalkonium chloride-induced bronchospasm from antiasthmatic drugs, aspartame-induced headache and seizures, saccharin-induced cross-sensitivity reactions in children with sulfonamide allergy, benzyl alcohol toxicity in neonates receiving high-dose continuous infusion with preserved medications, dye-related cross-reactions in children with aspirin intolerance, lactose-induced ........, and propylene glycol-induced hyperosmolality and lactic acidosis. Although many other excipients have been implicated in causing adverse reactions, these are the most significant in the pediatric population."
link:âInactiveâ Ingredients in Pharmaceutical Products: Update (Subject Review)
regards
mike
Looks like a good find. Will have to save the reading till I'm awake enough to interpret Greek again
i would like to know who is not using ingredients that are not GRAS.
it seems to me they would have to go out of there way to find suppliers
of non GRAS ingredients.
concerning China there have been instances of less than quality products.
you would be hard pressed now to find that to be the case.
Dekang,Fastech,and Ali Baba all have pretty good quality control.
they know Americans and Westerners in general demand better
quality than they can sluff off on the Asian markets.
regards
mike
I had a little time so I checked my inhalers and didn't see PG listed as an inactive ingredient but ethanol was. I did some searches (try nebulizers) and found this from 2002. Although I didn't/couldn't get to the full study, the summary implies PG was in use/an option at the time: Formulations and nebulizer performance. - PubMed - NCBI
I also found this from 2006. People mention it being used in hospitals for it's antibacterial properties. This is an EPA Registration for Eligibility Decision: http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistration/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf
I may do more searching later just because I'm curious, but I'm running behind on my Sunday to-do's! Oops!
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