FDA my opinoun (check me)

[Cheswolf]

So here is what I think they are going to do....

1. Tax it (duh!!!) the tax will be almost as high as analogs- This will not stop vapors, id pay as much or more as I did as a smoker to vap.

2. Ban internet sells- This will hurt it as a hobby but will increase the amount of "vapor" stores in operation.

3. Ban foreign imports- I have mixed emotions about this, I dont like foreign e-liquid but I love the equipment and price that comes out of chine.

4. Restrict it to only those +18- Good!!!!!!

5. Ban Flavors- OMG!!!! This is the one that scares me, but I think it will not have much of a punch.... places will just sell base liquid and flavor drops....... until the FDA bans the combination, but no clue how they could do that.

The e-liquid is way to easy to make, so I dont think BT will hurt us much, their products will suck and we will Vap on

They cant ban Nicotine, or regulate it as a controlled substance.... so I think vap'ing will have time to grow and our lobby will get larger as big tobacco slowly dies.

So... do you all agree, or am i wrong

 

[AuBadge]

I think that the first 3 are likely. #4:Tobacco products are already restricted by age; the onus falls on the seller to comply with the law. #5: When "they" ban cooking, baking, and bartending, they can ban flavors. The sale of nicotine can be curtailed if they choose to do so, which makes it a great idea for all vapers to buy what they need so they can make their own juices.

 

[Cheswolf]

I think that the first 3 are likely. #4:Tobacco products are already restricted by age; the onus falls on the seller to comply with the law. #5: When "they" ban cooking, baking, and bartending, they can ban flavors. The sale of nicotine can be curtailed if they choose to do so, which makes it a great idea for all vapers to buy what they need so they can make their own juices.

I agree, I hope that banning flavoring cannot happen, how do you suppose they would curtail the sale of nicotine? Meaning the liquid would go away, or just become more costly to get?

 

[echofinder]

I could not say how the nicotine sales thing will pan out; worst comes to worst I would see about growing a couple baccy plants & extracting it personally (if that is possible).

Flavoring is safe. Most of those flavoring suppliers existed before vaping was a thing anyway, and for years tasty puff & others have sold aftermarket flavorings for cigarettes themselves. Depending on nic availability small vendors could simply mix recipes in 0mg juice and sell that. No drugs means no regulation. Add your own nic.

IMO there would be a hundred ways around online band too; you can buy cigs online today if you do a little research. You can buy "water pipes" and little spoons and assorted other items for banned or restricted purposes with little/no hassle. After all, one could argue that a hardware vendor is merely selling batteries and heating elements and little tanks and none of them have anything to do with nicotine or inhalation. Stock one 510-threaded flashlight tip. Done.

 

[AttyPops]

My greatest fear in this regard....

That we won't be able to buy nic juice and will all have to settle for those pre-filled cartos. Other than that, I don't see too many issues (not a fan of over taxing a healthier solution though).

Flavoring... I DIY anyway so unless they outlaw candy/food flavorings and tick off all the candy/cake people ...no issue.
Hardware... can build an e-cigs with off-the-shelf parts...safely even...no issue.
Atomizers... just invested in a rebuildable tank for this reason... no issue.
Age ... I'm over 18...no issue.
No Internet Sales...If it's available locally at a reasonable cost 24/7...no issue otherwise big issue, for juice.
Taxes...Why? Do they tax NRT's heavily? No justification. Not heavily taxed now. No issue yet.

 

[AuBadge]

I agree, I hope that banning flavoring cannot happen, how do you suppose they would curtail the sale of nicotine? Meaning the liquid would go away, or just become more costly to get?

All it would take to restrict nicotine is for (let's just call them) "The Authority" ('True Blood' fans will get the reference) to decree that nicotine will only be sold in "approved" forms manufactured by Big Pharma and Big Tobacco (the "approved" manufacturers), such as Nicotine patches, snuff, nicotine gum, and of course cigarettes. See where I'm going with this?

 

[StotheK]

If they manage to ban nicotine in liquid form completely (only prefilled cartos) that's going to pretty much take out DIY too. It will also naturally kill a bunch of small suppliers who can't make the transition to B&M outlets and along with that technical innovation.

My greatest fear in this regard....

That we won't be able to buy nic juice and will all have to settle for those pre-filled cartos. Other than that, I don't see too many issues (not a fan of over taxing a healthier solution though).

Flavoring... I DIY anyway so unless they outlaw candy/food flavorings and tick off all the candy/cake people ...no issue.
Hardware... can build an e-cigs with off-the-shelf parts...safely even...no issue.
Atomizers... just invested in a rebuildable tank for this reason... no issue.
Age ... I'm over 18...no issue.
No Internet Sales...If it's available locally at a reasonable cost 24/7...no issue otherwise big issue, for juice.
Taxes...Why? Do they tax NRT's heavily? No justification. Not heavily taxed now. No issue yet.

 

[dragonrage]

i build mods so i can get all my stuff needed at my local RS and can get my attys or cartos from local a local vendor if needed. i am getting into the diy juices and buy from a local supplier online and now have there number so can call in orders. the only thing i see any problems is with the taxes on the nic juices.

 

[yzer]

1. Tax it (duh!!!) the tax will be almost as high as analogs- This will not stop vapors, id pay as much or more as I did as a smoker to vap. FDA doesn't tax anyone for anything. Federal, state and local governments levy taxes on tobacco products.

2. Ban internet sells- This will hurt it as a hobby but will increase the amount of "vapor" stores in operation. FDA cannot ban internet sales. The Federal PACT act put an end to internet sales of many tobacco products. Many states enacted similar bans.

3. Ban foreign imports- I have mixed emotions about this, I dont like foreign e-liquid but I love the equipment and price that comes out of chine. Why ban any foreign import? Do you really want to ban all foreign-made products?

4. Restrict it to only those +18- Good!!!!!! Already done.

5. Ban Flavors- OMG!!!! This is the one that scares me, but I think it will not have much of a punch.... places will just sell base liquid and flavor drops....... until the FDA bans the combination, but no clue how they could do that. The FDA could ban flavor ingredients until they are proven safe for inhalation. Given the size of this task they are likely to adopt a "wait and see" policy.

 

[mostapha]

Banning internet sales would kill vaping dead.

 

[Cheswolf]

1. Tax it (duh!!!) the tax will be almost as high as analogs- This will not stop vapors, id pay as much or more as I did as a smoker to vap. FDA doesn't tax anyone for anything. Federal, state and local governments levy taxes on tobacco products.

2. Ban internet sells- This will hurt it as a hobby but will increase the amount of "vapor" stores in operation. FDA cannot ban internet sales. The Federal PACT act put an end to internet sales of many tobacco products. Many states enacted similar bans.

3. Ban foreign imports- I have mixed emotions about this, I dont like foreign e-liquid but I love the equipment and price that comes out of chine. Why ban any foreign import? Do you really want to ban all foreign-made products?

4. Restrict it to only those +18- Good!!!!!! Already done.

5. Ban Flavors- OMG!!!! This is the one that scares me, but I think it will not have much of a punch.... places will just sell base liquid and flavor drops....... until the FDA bans the combination, but no clue how they could do that. The FDA could ban flavor ingredients until they are proven safe for inhalation. Given the size of this task they are likely to adopt a "wait and see" policy.

Very good points, my question is now, is there a chance that they will "ban" all non-approved devices or will they give current companies times to come up to approval limits. I mean honestly what is the time frame we are talking about.... In your all opinion.

1. Will they come out with the regulation soon, or wait till after the election or longer
2. Once they release their regulations will they go into effect immediately, or will there be a "time of conversation" and then go into effect at a later date (if so how long will that time be)
3. Will they allow current vendors time to adjust, or will the regulations slap us all at one time.

Many questions..... thanks for all the help all

 

[AttyPops]

If they manage to ban nicotine in liquid form completely (only prefilled cartos) that's going to pretty much take out DIY too. It will also naturally kill a bunch of small suppliers who can't make the transition to B&M outlets and along with that technical innovation.

Yeah agreed, and THAT is exactly why it was "my biggest fear in that regard". lol.

 

[attitude]

My Opinion:
1. Tax it (duh!!!): Yeah this is the first step and this is for sure.

2. Ban internet sells- They might and I hope they dont. Dont have a ride and will take atleast some time before a store opens up in my area.

3. Ban foreign imports- Yea, whatever. Just give me my vape.

4. Restrict it to only those +18- Needed.

5. Ban Flavors- OMG! ZOMG!!! *slow death*

 

[Cheswolf]

My Opinion:
1. Tax it (duh!!!): Yeah this is the first step and this is for sure.

2. Ban internet sells- They might and I hope they dont. Dont have a ride and will take atleast some time before a store opens up in my area.

3. Ban foreign imports- Yea, whatever. Just give me my vape.

4. Restrict it to only those +18- Needed.

5. Ban Flavors- OMG! ZOMG!!! *slow death*

Stores are opening all over the place, we are opening one soon our self. That is part of the reason im asking all of these questions, it a heart sinking feeling to think we are going to poor a ton of money and roll the dice and wake up on a Monday morning have to shut the doors and turn people away to die a slow painful death that a vapor store can stop. I agree about the flavors..... If they take away my Siberian fireball i would weep uncontrollably

 

[MoGo]

You can pretty much count on "sin" taxes being imposed on nic. juice at the very least, and they'll probably be significant. Yes, this is going to increase the cost of ejuices, but larger vendors can spread those increased costs among their hardware products to lessen the blow and keep vaping competitive with analog pricing, provided that nic juice is the only item that faces increased taxes. The bad news is that the smaller vendors would take the biggest hit, probably forcing many out of business because they can't defray those added costs as effectively.

It's really pretty simple. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about a product, a service, a behavior, or innovation. If you want less of something you increase taxes on it. It really doesn't matter how noble the cause, the result is the same.

 

[AlmityPunx]

honestly i wouldnt mind SOME oversight from FDA or some organization just for quality control... lets look at meat for instance, without oversight who is going to stop someone from selling tainted meats and bad products? i believe that the majority of the vendors on this site have our best interests in mind so im not really worried too much...

but lets be honest here... if we are talking about any DRASTIC changes coming through lawmakers then the time frame would be probably years... sure vaping doesnt have the lobbyists of BT but political agendas always have ways of gumming up the works and slowing down the process.

 

[MoGo]

I'm not completely against some regulation. For example, a reg. stating that cyanide is strictly prohibited in e-juice is perfectly valid and reasonable imho. What I worry about are the knee-jerk reactions that regulatory agencies are prone to based on a single incident of the worst possible case.

 

[wv2win]

honestly i wouldnt mind SOME oversight from FDA or some organization just for quality control... lets look at meat for instance, without oversight who is going to stop someone from selling tainted meats and bad products? i believe that the majority of the vendors on this site have our best interests in mind so im not really worried too much...

but lets be honest here... if we are talking about any DRASTIC changes coming through lawmakers then the time frame would be probably years... sure vaping doesnt have the lobbyists of BT but political agendas always have ways of gumming up the works and slowing down the process.

Considering the FDA went to court TWICE to have vaping banned nationwide, your wish for government intervention is naive. The fact that they outright lied about the safety of vaping proves they are not to be trusted.

The only thing that saved vaping back in 2009 was Republican judges, appointed by a Republican President and a Chinese company that brought suit against the FDA in court.

 

[zoiDman]

Considering the FDA went to court TWICE to have vaping banned nationwide, your wish for government intervention is naive. The fact that they outright lied about the safety of vaping proves they are not to be trusted.

The only thing that saved vaping back in 2009 was Republican judges, appointed by a Republican President and a Chinese company that brought suit against the FDA in court.

Why do I get the Distinct Impression that you Do Not have an Obama 2012 Bumper Sticker on your Car?

LOL

 

[DantesInferno]

Banning internet sales would kill vaping dead.

Agreed. From my standpoint, I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Theres not a juice vendor within several hundreds of miles of me. I don't see them banning it though. It's already catching on quite rapidly. But taxing the heck out of it...for sure. Easy way for them to make a quick buck. They gotta make up for all that money they've lost from people no longer buying cigarettes.