Perhaps its too early to ask, but I'm upset because after 2 weeks that I've purchased my 510, I wanna go into business with them! I contacted joye directly and everything, but im just reading now that imports have once again been banned. I've checked some threads and it seems like personal shipments are certainly getting through, infact one of mine just went thru customs yesterday, and said its outbound now. I just dont want to drop a ... load of money and have it get seized. Fortunetly i have a customs broker friend so i'll check out his scoop, but right now he's off partying in the desert.
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Here's my advice, for what it's worth...wait until your friend comes back. Then, get the definition of 'wholesale amounts'. Make sure you're UNDER that amount and recruit your friends and family in assisting you by placing orders under their addresses.
My 0.02
My 0.02
i don't know about the fda starting up banning again, but you're always taking a chance. if you can't afford to lose it, you shouldn't go that route.
i bought 500ml bottles of juice directly from dekang with the understanding that i could lose the shipment and my $. i was willing to lose it, and got the bottles fine. even with the box 1/2 torn open in shipment to the USA with the bottles clearly marked.
if you can afford to lose a few thousand then you could go for it. I don't think it's as much a risk as it used to be, but maybe that status has changed.
i bought 500ml bottles of juice directly from dekang with the understanding that i could lose the shipment and my $. i was willing to lose it, and got the bottles fine. even with the box 1/2 torn open in shipment to the USA with the bottles clearly marked.
if you can afford to lose a few thousand then you could go for it. I don't think it's as much a risk as it used to be, but maybe that status has changed.
Import Refusal Report
This is a list of all the FDA import refusals. There have not been any e cig related seizures since January it would appear. It will be interesting to see the April statistics though. E cigs usually fall under industry 66 - Human and Animal drugs.
I have gotten about 20 kits and 50 packs of cartos from china in the past month (for friends). No trouble, and only my first order even went through customs. I think if you keep the shipments small (like 30 or 40 kits at a time) you will be fine. Also, get a couple of PO boxes around town and rotate where you have the product delivered.
This is a list of all the FDA import refusals. There have not been any e cig related seizures since January it would appear. It will be interesting to see the April statistics though. E cigs usually fall under industry 66 - Human and Animal drugs.
I have gotten about 20 kits and 50 packs of cartos from china in the past month (for friends). No trouble, and only my first order even went through customs. I think if you keep the shipments small (like 30 or 40 kits at a time) you will be fine. Also, get a couple of PO boxes around town and rotate where you have the product delivered.
Yep, the April reports should be really interesting since the FDA wasn't given the green light to begin seizing shipments again until March 31st.
I'm pretty sure that everything that comes into the country goes through customs. They obviously don't open everything. I've gotten a number of packages from China and all went through customs, but none were opened.
I was curious about that myself actually. My past two shipments did not show customs on the USPS tracking, and they were at my local distribution center 30 hours after hitting the country. My current package shows the same tracking information (ie, no customs), but has been sitting at "inbound arrival" for about 48 hours now. My guess is that since it got into the states on Saturday night, it might take a bit longer to get processed, but who knows. I suppose it is possible that it is sitting in customs and they just never scanned it, this just seems unlikely, as I would think that customs would be the one place where everything DOES get scanned.
they have so many people and so many packages, Its a bad economic time. They cant always afford to have enough people to check every single package. But rest assure you will eventually get one taken away.
I was under the impression that the ruling had been stayed all along. It is important to remember that despite the fact that the injunction banning the shipment seizures has been stayed, the only ruling in a federal court so far stated very clearly that the FDA could not regulate e cigs as drug/device combos. Until the appeals hearing, this is the only legal precedent in the US as far as i know. It would seem like given that fact alone, if the FDA seized any shipments before the appeals hearing it would grant the intended receiver standing to join the class action suit. Something tells me that the FDA already has its hands full with SE and Njoy and don't want to risk having any more money put up against them. It almost seems like they would rather just bankrupt SE in the process, even if they don't win.
Of course this is all just speculation. I actually have no idea what I am talking about.
I have been debating the same thing, going into business with either the 808 or 510 with cartos and also worry about the seizures. Its sad that when supposedly this admin wants to promote small business that they are preventing something that would make a fairly easy start up.
Judge Leon originally ordered the FDA to cease all refusals and seizures on the 14th of January. That is why there was a sudden drop off of Import Refusal Reports around that time. The court of appeals then granted the FDA a continued stay pertaining to their ability to conduct seizures only on March 31st, one day before Obama signed the PACT Act into law. Neither the appeals court nor Judge Leon has yet to give a final decision on the classification of e-cigs however. See the discussion about the stay starting at post #5575 here; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/24645-smoking-everywhere-v-fda-daily-docket-sheet-update-appeals-court-issues-stay-discussion-558.html and the PDF links of Judge Leon's ruling can be found here; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/72514-se-vs-fda-judge-leons-ruling.html This is why I mentioned that we will probably see how bad things really are after the FDA posts their April reports, which I'm guessing will be sometime during the first part of May.
We have had customs problems it is the cost of getting this. If it's port of entry is Chicago, there is a very good chance ya will lose it. Ever where else hit or miss.
mine was 300 still keep in mind no matter what the bigger the box the more likely they want to know what is in it.
I have been following that thread, and I was under the impression that Judge Leon's injunction was placed on administrative stay as soon as the appeals process started. On March 31st the appeals court granted the actual request for a stay by the FDA and scheduled oral arguments. I may be wrong here, but I thought the FDA was reserving their right to refuse imports the whole time, but was not for some reason.
I don't know noo, someone who understands the appeals process and what was legally available to the FDA better than I do would have to fill in the finer points. I'm doing good just to take care of the paperwork for my mother-in-law's probate.
All I do know is that things were extremely quiet after Judge Leon's ruling in January, but since the appeals decision the grapevine has been buzzing with rumors of refusals and/or seizures. Like I said, we'll see what's really going on in a couple of weeks.
I took the risk and place an order from heaven gifts on 04/13. It is marked by USPS as “Original Post is Preparing Shipment” last dated 4/17. The EMS marked the same date “arrival at transit office of exchange”.
My fist order was 3/31 and received it on 4/09, both tracking saying just the same as the current order states now.
I contacted them and they responded this:
“Unfortunately, it is ture about the thread on the ECF. After FDA lost his case, we met several cases with US customs, most of the parcels are seized by Chicago customs, only one large order (more than 50 kits) are seized by New York customs. Previously, we thought it was Chicago customs who seized our parcel, until one of our customers reported that it is FDA seized the package BEFORE customs could process it. We are not sure why it happens,either. But we really don't want this issue happens.
Hope it would be fine with your orders.”
It is in reference to this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/83723-i-thought-fda-told-court.html
My fist order was 3/31 and received it on 4/09, both tracking saying just the same as the current order states now.
I contacted them and they responded this:
“Unfortunately, it is ture about the thread on the ECF. After FDA lost his case, we met several cases with US customs, most of the parcels are seized by Chicago customs, only one large order (more than 50 kits) are seized by New York customs. Previously, we thought it was Chicago customs who seized our parcel, until one of our customers reported that it is FDA seized the package BEFORE customs could process it. We are not sure why it happens,either. But we really don't want this issue happens.
Hope it would be fine with your orders.”
It is in reference to this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/83723-i-thought-fda-told-court.html
Just my two cents:
"We have had customs problems it is the cost of getting this. If it's port of entry is Chicago, there is a very good chance ya will lose it. Ever where else hit or miss."
I would not call it a very good chance, but I have had quite a few stopped here.
As of now I am waiting for my letter for the last shipment stopped at customs which was inbound to customs on march 29th and never heard from again.
So as others said. Its hit or miss. If you are worried about 1 or 2 orders being seized then you need to rethink you business plan.
IMHO, customs have a pretty hard job. Countless parcels to sort through, any of which would have countless items that should not be allowed to pass.
"We have had customs problems it is the cost of getting this. If it's port of entry is Chicago, there is a very good chance ya will lose it. Ever where else hit or miss."
I would not call it a very good chance, but I have had quite a few stopped here.
As of now I am waiting for my letter for the last shipment stopped at customs which was inbound to customs on march 29th and never heard from again.
So as others said. Its hit or miss. If you are worried about 1 or 2 orders being seized then you need to rethink you business plan.
IMHO, customs have a pretty hard job. Countless parcels to sort through, any of which would have countless items that should not be allowed to pass.
This is an interesting article, if a bit dated and alarmist: The 5 Percent Myth vs. US Customs and Border Protection Reality
To summarize: US customs has a large investigative system in place that flags packages for inspection before they even leave the dock in the sending country. Packages are not inspected randomly, and only those flagged as potentially hazardous or illegal get X-rayed, and even fewer actually get opened. US customs acknowledges that they have finite resources, and engages in prioritization based on national security interests first - which explains the JFK/O'hare disparity.
Regardless, it seems like if you or the sender get flagged it is game over. That said, starting up small proxy "trading" companies is easy for Chinese manufacturers to do. There is no reason for the FDA to inspect innocuous packages from small trading companies unless they suspect something is afoot.
From what i know about importing, there's been recent major changes. Shippers submit paperwork to customs at least 48 hours before shipment and there's major fines and customs seizure if they don't. I forget what it's called in the distribution world, something like 40-20-10 or something. So they know where all Dekang shipments are going to and coming through a week before they get there.
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