FDA FDA to BAN/RESTRICT Vaping UNLESS...

[Endor]

"smoking" is defined as deliberately inhaling the smoke of burning plant particles. Such as tobacco or those "herbal cigarettes". - If you do not inhale smoke, then you do not smoke. And no ifs and buts about it.

I used to inhale water vapor with chamomille when I had bronchitis. Does that mean "smoking" in your wife's opinion?

Yeah, I've tried what you described in your first paragraph! The chamomille vapor, that I haven't tried yet!

The point I was trying to make was that non-smokers do view vaping differently than we do, and I think to some degree this is what we're battling.... non-smokers do outnumber smokers by quite a margin.

 

[pamdis]

Anyone know why CASSA is saying this is a bad idea? Phil Busardo has removed his support of it but he never gave any details.

For basically the same reasons they don't provide form letters themselves for us to just forward. They think they are ineffective. They want people to write original letters. They are willing to give us talking points and help us compose thoughtful letters, but they want them all original.

 

[Kent C]

I'm not against dual use. My wife was a dual user for 3 years and eventually quit over a year ago now. The 'problem' with dual use is not with dual users, it's with what Zeller said at the hearings and what the ANTZ have been preaching at every opportunity.

Zeller says it best since he acknowledged that it would be 'good for public health' if hardcore smokers switched the ecigs entirely. (paraphrasing). BUT.... that wasn't his real concern. His real concern was 'potential quitters' who may have quit were it not for the fact that through ecigs or dual use, that they continued their addiction. And he considers those people as the much larger group, than the hardcore smokers, who for him are doomed to addiction anyway Therefore in his 'for the greatest good' philosophy, he thinks that public health would be greater if ecigs were banned, therefore 'allowing' those who were going to quit anyway from continuing their habit. As for the hardcore smokers, he likely figures they'd go back to cigarettes or go to the black market - whereas the other 'larger group' would not.

Thar's why I think it's important not to give them any information that they could and would use toward promoting the idea of dual use, even though, again, I don't have a problem with it myself.

 

[patkin]

And the FDA is counting on people being too busy to do that. IMHO, the less work required, the more people are likely to participate. I see both points of view and see no reason why they can't both be done. This was one of my greatest concerns from the start and I posted those concerns. The worst thing that can happen now is for the vaping community to become fractured/divided into different loyalties and factions. Whichever way a person decides go... just do it! Its better than doing nothing. Different strokes for different folks... not the time to get into which strokes are the "right" ones.

PS: I think I used some of the same words in that post the first day the FDA publicized... how did I know so early on to be concerned... human nature. Please, please, please... let's NOT turn various efforts into internal politics. I've been a member of CASAA almost since I started vaping and have nothing but praise for them. That doesn't mean I'm being disloyal in seeing that others may have effective but different approaches. Anyway... nuff said.

 

[Kent C]

And the FDA is counting on people being too busy to do that. IMHO, the less work required, the more people are likely to participate. I see both points of view and see no reason why they can't both be done. This was one of my greatest concerns from the start and I posted those concerns. The worst thing that can happen now is for the vaping community to become fractured/divided into different loyalties and factions. Whichever way a person decides go... just do it! Its better than doing nothing. Different strokes for different folks... not the time to get into which strokes are the "right" ones.

PS: I think I used some of the same words in that post the first day the FDA publicized... how did I know so early on to be concerned... human nature. Please, please, please... let's NOT turn various efforts into internal politics. I've been a member of CASAA almost since I started vaping and have nothing but praise for them. That doesn't mean I'm being disloyal in seeing that others may have effective but different approaches. Anyway... nuff said.

I agree. I think they changed the original to accommodate the objection and if this is the only way some people feel comfortable in 'commenting', I say do it. One can make as many comments as one wants. If when CASAA comes out with some guidelines and people feel good about that as well - comment!

I like that they're sending to all representatives as well. Something I've been doing on my own and to other Reps. and Senators beyond my own - to those who I think will actually read and 'listen', basically the Republican side of the Senate HELP committee.

 

[soulcatcher]

As I say to all people regardless of topic, issue, personal stance... BE INVOLVED!! I don't care if we disagree on this issue or that; the point is to be involved, to be active, to be a part of the solution. There are so many problems and issues in this world and so few people that are willing to educate themselves and take the time to be involved and put forth effort to affect positive change.

It is great to see so many in this community willing to be involved. Keep having conversations with friends and family, especially if they do not vape. People have a tendency of taking little interest in issues that do not affect them. Let them know what vaping means to you, how you have benefited from it and to give them a reason to take interest and hopefully get involved as well.

-Keep spreading the word-

 

[sonicdsl]

Personally (*and this is no reflection on the stance of ECF, official, or otherwise, solely my own personal opinion), I don't know who is behind the site. I'd like to know who/what organization is behind it before getting involved and/or providing personal information.

But that's just me.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Whoever it is decided to hide behind a privacy screen, from the tucows whois domain lookup:

Registrant Name: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0137428314

Things that make you go mmmmmmm.

I did it anyway and if the thank you page after you submit is any indication of the number of faxes and FDA letters that are going to be sent/delivered somebody is going to know they kicked a hornets nest. It consist of single spaced first names only typed in like you were writing a letter and takes 5 seconds plus to scroll down.

I think it might be a good idea and from the last question I think I might have a clue who is behind it.

 

[e30holmes]

I did my part and submitted one. Lets keep the mojo going!!! Its on all of our favorite youtube reviewers like riptrippers and more and that was enough "proof" for me to think its the real deal. I think its riptrippers idea psardo and twisted420 mentioned rip when talking about it.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk

 

[Kent C]

I filled one out.....

 

[DeeLeeKay]

submitted!

 

[Jingles]

I just filled mine out. What's with the porn videos in the signatures? I did not watch them, but the pictures were offensive!

 

[2coils]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY3L81dj7uc
Some more info....kind of

 

[Kent C]

I just filled mine out. What's with the porn videos in the signatures? I did not watch them, but the pictures were offensive!

I figured ANTZ invasion. I reported it to the OP and hopefully the site will scrub them.

 

[donesmokin]

I filled it in. Maybe we can bury THEM in red tape for once.

 

[aikanae1]

There's about 5 reviewers on board with Free to Vape, but it sounds like this was Rip Tripper's baby to begin with. PBusardo has posted a comment on his FB saying he was getting "mixed signals" from CASAA and pulled his support for now. It doesn't sound like he understands what beef CASAA might have either. That's really a shame since he is probably the most influential personality right now. Dimitris (FB) seems to be silent on this, which is kinda odd since he's been really shinning on advocacy lately. They are both in Miami.

Vaping Malitia's comment clarified things for me the best.
Every weapon in our arsenal | The Vaping Militia

IMO, it appears CASAA has an issue that these letters will not be in a format that FDA can use. So what? They'll probably throw them away. However, they WILL be in a format that elected reps and senators can use and (my opinion) is that is the primary target of the website, and just as valueable.

The FDA and Congress assume that 90% of the market is cigalikes and so it makes sense that 2/3rds would be dual use. I don't find that surprising. They have NO clue about the way most people use ecigs like mods and pv's. They can't. There hasn't been a way to track info like sales from B&M's or oversea sales until recently. They have no clue as to how big vaping is; even the Economic Impact Report stated the latest data was from 2012. Where I live, there was one store two years ago between 2 major metro area's and now there must be 40. That's a serious problem - Congress knows what the FDA tells them unless we speak up.

I know this has been discussed before, but cigalikes have been the only trackable data (tax records, etc) that they've had to work with and that can take up to 2-4 years for them to get / update.

Also, don't forget that the FDA has approved NRT's for dual use (including cigarettes). Can't the same apply to ecigs since NRT's contain the same ingredients?

I haven't checked to see if CASAA has issued a statement yet.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

I was neutral at first and almost didn't complete one , but then I started thinking numbers.

If a congress critter gets one or two faxes they don't have to worry about them, but if several hundred show up someone is going to pay attention.

I look at this as a way to get large numbers in front of the congress critters and let them know that many people are interested in this subject. Kind of a heads up for those who haven't been paying attention.

My comment was short, just how after 53 years of smoking e-cigarettes had enabled me to quit a 3 pack a day habit accidentally in a month 3.5 years ago and some about mods and flavors keeping me from going back to cigarettes.

As far as the FDA goes, they will have to read what is turned into them and if whoever is doing these letters puts the proper header on them they will have to keep them on file and count them as comments, once again numbers count.
It would be nice if they show up with a couple of hand truck loads of file boxes full of 1-2 page letters on this.

When CASAA comes out with their lists, I'm going to submit those and cc my congress critters, that will just add to the number of items that are in what by then is hopefully a large file.

I think this will get the numbers across and what CASAA is going to ask us to do as getting specific items addressed.

 

[aikanae1]

My one concern would be if people thought the website submitted their final comment to the FDA, which it can't adequately address (with attachments, etc) and they don't submit another one later. But I think most that are preparing to submit detailed comments to FDA's questions would be aware of that and others? They probably wouldn't have submitted those kind of comments to the FDA anyway. So IMO, it's stll no harm.

 

[2coils]

IMHO, providing people follow up and still submit their comments to the FDA, I don't personally see how this will hurt. I was uncomfortable about it initially, until I found that GRIMM and RIP have something to do with it, or at least support it. I can understand everyones concerns but I do like the idea of the automatic submissions. I know CASAA has made it easier to communicate and send responses from calls to action as well.

 

[soulcatcher]

So many people have said this is good, this is bad, argued back and forth... The reason for the OP was simply to try and get more people involved. I never said or meant to imply that this was the best option, simply another option. The bottom line is to become involved HOWEVER you see fit, and get others involved.

While I wish that people spent more time and energy and reaching out to others and speaking more on this issue in general vs. fighting/arguing over whether or not to fill out this specific form, I am glad the people are voicing their opinions and concerns.

Apathy and inaction = surrender and defeat. Be involved, get others involved, and stand up for the beliefs, convictions, and values that you hold. Change is possible when people can work together for a common goal.

-Keep spreading the Word-