Feature on BBC Radio 4 about E-Cigs today...

[mammoth]

It starts at about 7 minutes in. Some quite interesting news here, especially the bit about a global tobacco brand launching their own device (might not be an ecig, but probably is) in the coming months.


iPlayer link

 

[Petrodus]

What I enjoyed about the interview was the casual nature of the discussion.
Very matter of fact style...Not highly technical...Anyone could easily understand.
Lots of "common sense" dialog.

I know some may dissect the interview pointing out this and that...
However...A very good casual and at the same time...Professional discussion.
Obviously intended to inform the general public of the benefits of the e-cig
as it relates to harm reduction.

 

[K.P.]

It starts at about 7 minutes in. Some quite interesting news here, especially the bit about a global tobacco brand launching their own device (might not be an ecig, but probably is) in the coming months.

They could be referring to intellicig's efforts to have a licensed product or they could be referring to this, or something else entirely.

MicroBlue filter blocks many of the toxins that make a cigarette dangerous but doesn’t disturb the ingredients that give it flavor and produce that seductive though addictive nicotine buzz.... It includes a biochemical substance that attracts and immobilizes the carcinogens while letting nicotine slip through. Says one Filligent customer, Canadian distributor Edward Roundpoint: “People normally hate reduced-harm cigarettes. But this is different: It does not affect the flavor or the nicotine experience at all.”

 

[McDougal]

They could be referring to intellicig's efforts to have a licensed product or they could be referring to this, or something else entirely.

MicroBlue filter blocks many of the toxins that make a cigarette dangerous but doesn’t disturb the ingredients that give it flavor and produce that seductive though addictive nicotine buzz.... It includes a biochemical substance that attracts and immobilizes the carcinogens while letting nicotine slip through. Says one Filligent customer, Canadian distributor Edward Roundpoint: “People normally hate reduced-harm cigarettes. But this is different: It does not affect the flavor or the nicotine experience at all.”

That's a compelling product, however, it doesn't address second-hand smoke. I think vapor is the real solution, not only because it's not smoke, but because it's cheaper and the choices are endless as well (nicotine strength, flavor, hardware preferences, etc.)

 

[rolygate]

There are two ecig-related devices that are talked about as possible candidates for a medical license in the UK this year: the Nicoventures product, and Intellicig's licensable version. One of them at least should succeed this year, and my bet is on the Intellicig device as it has been in trials for over two years now, whereas the Nicoventures product is at about 1 year plus. However the Nicoventures model may get fast-tracked as it has the right connections.


BBC Radio 4 programme
The ecigarette-related portion of this post was added to and moved to The Library:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/275646-medics-money-e-cigarette-regulation.html

The Brown U nicotine research part was also moved to The Library:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/275641-nicotine-research.html

They have some thought-provoking material on the reasons behind e-cigarette bans, and what we know about nicotine's effects in the long term.

 

[Petrodus]

It's about the money, not the deaths
Unfortunately, every medic I have ever come across reveals the fact they are extremely politically naive. This is a political issue, not a health issue, because it's all about money, corruption, power and tax. The health issues aren't of any importance, and never will be. If the UK government currently gets away with killing more than 10,000 of its citizens a year to help out pharma, and this issue isn't even broached in the press, how can it have anything to do with health?

When "They" establish the topic of discussion is "Health Concerns" then
we just play "follow the leader". In actuality...Health Concerns is nothing
more than a smoke screen (pun intended). Which drives many of us NUTS!!!

Reminds me of that famous movie quote:
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

 

[DC2]

Rolygate, I would consider what you just wrote to be a must-read for every vaper everywhere.

In fact, people who come to this forum should actually be forced to read it and take a test or not be allowed in.
Okay, well, not really, but it would be really helpful if everyone did read it.

 

[rolygate]

I'd like every doctor to take a test on nutrition, and on how their profession is affected by the pharma money machine. That might be useful.

The first large-scale test for nicotine (n=136) was famous for the fact that the doctors who ran it were amazed when all tested positive, and assumed that everyone is exposed to ETS. I can't see how a doctor can be called one if they don't know much about nutrition, it seems a contradiction in terms to me. When the CDC did a test of 800 (all positive) I suppose it woke some of them up to the fact that they really didn't know much about things they were supposed to be knowledgeable about - like nutrition being fairly important to health issues for example.

 

[dlsw]

What a fantastic, intelligent, well thought out post. Thank you so much. It is sad when your government would rather see you die than have a safe alternative to smoking.

 

[rolygate]

Governments have to balance votes against money. If something brings in money and can be kept under the radar, it's a win. If it gets a spotlight shined on it, and may affect votes, then decisions may be changed. I don't blame them for doing anything to balance the budget because I certainly wouldn't want that job. In some cases those decisions mean life or death to a great many people, and the health area is bound to be a prime example of such issues. But, just like anyone else, when it looks as if someone is trying to kill me then it tends to get my attention.

Everything has its time, and THR's time has come - the time is right to bring it into the spotlight, and stop those in power taking money to make it go away. We are currently faced with several high-level corruption issues in the UK and this is just another facet of the same thing: autonomous government agencies that have nobody looking over their shoulder to check up on what they are doing or where their money or job offers are coming from. There is a desperate need for some sort of central government anti-corruption authority with ultimate power, and nothing much will change until that comes into being; which it never will. The problem goes right to the very top, so there is no stomach for fixing it.

Our job is basically to shine the spotlight on issues in such a way that it becomes embarrassing for those who benefit financially from very wrong situations to continue to do so. It's all we can do. There is an immensely powerful propaganda machine against us, fueled by unlimited amounts of money, staffed by people whose livelihoods depend on us being shut down. We are up against people like the world's most heavily-fined convicted criminal fraudsters, who in effect own parts of the government. The machine is so powerful they have managed to hide the fact they kill tens of thousands to keep their game in play. There's a tough road ahead.

Some may think I overdo things a bit. In fact it's underplayed, considering the stakes. The issue has nothing at all to do with health, it's entirely about the money. Until you realise that, you don't make any headway.

 

[Petrodus]

Some may think I overdo things a bit. In fact it's underplayed, considering the stakes. The issue has nothing at all to do with health, it's entirely about the money. Until you realize that, you don't make any headway.

rolygate...All of what you say is true and your not overstating things.
Most don't really want to know or want to accept the truth. In doing so,
they would be admitting to themselves that its really all about money
and they are nothing but "cash cows".

"Every generation needs a new revolution"
Thomas Jefferson

 

[Petrodus]

Rolygate, I would consider what you just wrote to be a must-read for every vaper everywhere.

In fact, people who come to this forum should actually be forced to read it and take a test or not be allowed in.
Okay, well, not really, but it would be really helpful if everyone did read it.

I would suggest that this thread be a "Sticky"
If it's not made a "Sticky" then rolygate's eloquent comments will end up on a
back page and seldom seen again. This (in my opinion) would be shame.

If the decision is not to preserve this thread as a Sticky...I suggest members should
bookmark the thread for future reference so we can include a link to this thread when
replying to what will be many future posts when questions and comments arise regarding
not understanding why (Fill in the blank)

 

[jtpjc]

Hear hear.

I just now typed 2481 words less than Rolygate. I feel seriously humbled.

 

[wfx]

Brown University research
Another item in the Radio 4 programme mentioned some new research from Brown U that seems to show nicotine may be harmful.

Here we go again. Nicotine is the most natural of all consumer stimulants and stress relievers as it is part of the diet and everyone tests positive for it. If you take 800 people and test them, they all test positive for nicotine. It is present in many vegetables and is co-located with the vitamin nicotinic acid (niacin or vitamin B3), which is also a metabolyte of nicotine in some circumstances (the literature is extremely sparse here). This means that trying to remove nicotine from the diet would also remove vitamin B3 and lead to sickness. Nicotine is a natural part of the diet and it is unhealthy to avoid it. On the other hand, nobody tests positive for coffee, alcohol or chocolate (unless they just ate some). Nicotine is the most natural and normal of all the consumer products in this class - everybody has some, it is healthy to consume it, and unhealthy to avoid it. Like all such materials, the dose makes the poison (the only difference between a nutrient or medicine and a poison is the dose).

nicely done. i knew there is a nutritional connection here, and i really appreciate the niacin mention. the oft mentioned story of the vegetarian failing cotinine tests is what tips the balance for me. and i don't have the reference, but smoking initially became popular as a means primarily to suppress appetite. not the modern day dieter, but people fighting real hunger pains hundreds of years ago.

when our medical ideologues wake up .. 20 (50?) years from now .. someone with an open mind will properly research the nutritional value of everyday 'stimulants'. the very label 'stimulant' presumes that these substances are 'free-radicals' to be eliminated. how sad.

 

[rolygate]

I would suggest that this thread be a "Sticky"
If it's not made a "Sticky" then rolygate's eloquent comments will end up on a
back page and seldom seen again. This (in my opinion) would be shame.

If the decision is not to preserve this thread as a Sticky...I suggest members should
bookmark the thread for future reference so we can include a link to this thread when
replying to what will be many future posts when questions and comments arise regarding
not understanding why (Fill in the blank)

I split my post into two parts, about nicotine research and about medics, money and e-cigarette bans, wrote a little more commentary, and put them in The Library.

 

[rolygate]

the .....story of the vegetarian failing cotinine tests.....

That's amusing and good enough to be an urban myth, so I put it in the nicotine research article in The Library.

Thanks

 

[wfx]

That's amusing and good enough to be an urban myth, so I put it in the nicotine research article in The Library.

such a story is likely to be untrue since it would probably require a diet featuring large amounts of tomatoes, eggplants, potatoes, ketchup and tea, it does point out the problem in an amusing way

oh no, that was my favorite story. now i have to dig up a vegan, force feed them ketchup and get them to apply.