Feeling betrayed by a supplier

[kushka]

I found out that a very popular supplier who I have a very friendly relationship and who I have recommended and defended – has been shortchanging me and probably others as far as ejuice goes.

After reading this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/43742-smoke-juice-storage-tips.html. I decided that I needed to start storing all my e-liquid in glass bottles. I have quite a collection of both flavored and unflavored e-liquid

I bought a bunch of 1oz oval amber glass prescription bottles from e-bay. They were a good brand (Owens-Illinois) but were obviously seconds – many had a large glass bump off to one side on the bottom – so I wondered if these were really hold one ounce (28.41ml).. In fact I was hoping I could get 30ml in them because I had some e-liquid from my favorite supplier in 30ml size. I started with a new bottle of 30ml e-juice and was transferring it using a brand new 5ml syringe I got from the pharmacy with a 14g needle. I was carefully measuring and found out that the new 30ml bottle of e-liquid I had bought only contained 27ml of e-liquid. I had six unopened 30ml bottles from them – all were only 27ml.

I feel betrayed. I also feel angry not just with the vendor but at my fellow readers of the forum who have made it impossible for me to call them on it. For as we all know whenever any one post something negative about a well love supplier they are attacked by all the fan boys and girls.

I have done it myself – often when I have seen a complaint from someone poster about a supplier that I have felt be-friended by – I have felt compelled to post a defense in their name – saying what a really great supplier they really are – after all one supports ones friends – and you don’t want newbie’s to get the wrong idea about this great guy who always is helpful and friendly and gives neat little freebies and goes out of his way for you –

So what do you do when you realize that of course your favorite supplier can afford to give you freebies – they are saving a lot on each 30ml bottle of e-juice they sale by only sending out 27ml –

Also I have to wonder why they even bothered – if they had said they said for 27 ml the price was $xx instead of 30ml for $xx – I would have been just as ready to buy. It just seems so petty and sneaky for someone who seems to have built such a great reputation for being such a good guy to do this that if I hadn’t measured many different bottles bought at different times and if I had not measured with a medical syringe – I would have believed it was my mistake.

And they could not be doing this by mistake – after all nicotine is such a strong poison that if they were letting themselves be careless about how they measure when mixing it – it would be a far greater crime then just short changing us.

I am not going to give out there names either here or by pv – I do not have the energy or heart to argue with anyone about what great guys they are. I just suggest you measure what you order from time to time – you may be surprised.

 

[MXBNW]

We pay good $ for juice where every we get it. It would be like buying a pack of analogs and getting only 18 in the pack.

I would send a PM or Email to the vendor with you findings and see what they say.

Please keep us posted

 

[icemanx3]

Hello,

I am not being defensive or anything, just curious. Are you certain that the missing 3ml isn't coated (stuck to) the insides of the syringe body and plunger, the needle, and some left within the old juice bottle and lid? For example, when I make brownies, if it calls for 1/4 cup of oil, I always use a bit more over the 1/4 cup line, just because quite a bit of the oil stays in the measuring cup. I don't know, 3ml seems like a lot to be missing from 6 bottles though, that's 18ml missing total.

Let us know if that's the case, quite interesting.

ice

 

[shanagan]

I've had it happen too, kushka, on a 5ml bottle, so it was pretty easy to notice.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Just out of interest are the bottles completely full or is there much spare headroom at the top of the bottle? Are they common 30ml types used by many suppliers or are they some sort of custom bottle?

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

First tip-off to an assumption mistake.

...I wondered if these were really hold one ounce (28.41ml)...

UK 1 oz. to ml. = 28.4130625
U.S. 1 oz. to ml. = 29.5735296875

Make sure you know what unit of measure your vendor is using before making a mistake.

 

[SimpleSins]

First tip-off to an assumption mistake.



UK 1 oz. to ml. = 28.4130625
U.S. 1 oz. to ml. = 29.5735296875

Make sure you know what unit of measure your vendor is using before making a mistake.

From what she wrote, it sounded like the bottles really have nothing to do with anything other than explaining how she came to be moving liquid from the original bottle to another. It sounds like the measuring was done with a syringe of what was sold as 30 mL of liquid, but turned out not to be, nor does it sound like it was an ounce, no matter which geographical location you go by.

I'm sorry this happened to you, Kushka. If you imagine a popular vendor and the number of customers they have, shaving 3 ml off everybody bottles could save a significant amount of money. Unfortunately, it's a painful reminder that to the vendors, we are not their friends; we are their customers and nothing more really than cashcows in an unregulated industry. Remember that when making your shopping decisions; they're sure not looking out for your interests, so you have to do that yourself based on truth not truthiness.

 

[Matodd]

I understand that you feel cheated I would too. I've been taught that 1 ounce = 30ml and that's two different schools CNA training and medical assistant degree. I expect that the missing three mls is for the dripper cap. If the bottle was filled to the top which I assume would be 30ml there would be no room to cap the bottle. I think the problem is the advertising here. The bottles are 30ml but should be marketed as 27ml to allow for cap.

I would email them and see what they have to say. Keep us posted! Would be interested to know what vendor X has to say.

M

 

[Wench]

This subject came up last year as it was a common problem not isolated to just one vendor.
If it is prepackage dekang type juices it was explained they package usually by weight/volume and not by exact measuring using ML's. So bottles maybe over/under filled by the machines.
It wasn't the vendor's doing it, just poopy machinery and production methods in China.

Now if it's hand mixed stuff that's a different kettle of fish there.

 

[tdh]

I am completely unsurprised. 10% is a bit much, but if you factor in a bit for juice stuck to the bottle, it's fairly reasonable. A 30ml bottle could easily have 1-2ml stuck to the inside if you aren't careful (From the tone of your post, I assume that you were careful.)

I have purchased 1lb bags of potato chips that specifically say they are 450 grams, but when I put them on the scale, they barely weigh in at 430, including the bag. There are tons of fluids that you can find in "2oz" bottles that are actually 50ml, etc. I have seen literally hundreds of '19 inch' monitors that are actually under 18.

And don't forget that your syringe might not be that accurate. An error of 0.4ml on each fill (which wouldn't be surprising for a cheap syringe) would account for almost the entire 3ml.

That said, I agree that it sucks. I suspect that most suppliers are consistently light by 5% or more, and I am worried about the actual nicotine concentration. If they fudge the quantity, which is easy to measure, by as much as 10%, then how accurate are the nicotine concentrations, which are much, much harder to test?

 

[kushka]

Just to clarify a couple of points:

The syringe I used was a Terurmo - which is a major producer medical syringes and needles - and was produced for giving injections to human beings - thus I believe it is an accurate measure - and since the way a syringe works - I don't believe any was stuck to the sides - and after I discovered this with the first bottle - I was careful to get as much as possible from the bottle - there may have been .25ml stuck to the sides I did not get - not much more.

And as SimpleSins wrote - the measure of the glass bottles had nothing to do with it - except to explain why I was measuring carefully - the glass in these bottles (which appeared to be seconds) were a bit distorted with a bump on the side and I was seeing if the bottles measurements were accurate - I had not thought to question my vendors honesty - as I said - I believed in them; which is why I felt betrayed.

The bottles they send out are slightly different then the standard - in fact if I posted a picture without a label many people here would recognize who I was speaking of.

I measured one of the empty bottles and when 30ml are put in it fills to the top of the topmost thread - another .2 ml and it would overflow. They look what you would think of as full

 

[GoodDog]

The Weight and Measure Act:
"AN ACT TO MAKE PROVISION WITH RESPECT TO WEIGHTS AND MEASURES, FOR THE PROTECTION OF CONSUMERS PURCHASING COMMODITIES BY WEIGHT OR MEASURE..."

These vendors need to get their act together if they plan on staying in business for any length of time. But maybe they aren't?

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

I don't think you guys are understanding the potential math issue here. It's over a 1ml difference between U.S. and UK measurement standards per one U.S. ounce. If you purchased 30ml of fluid from a supplier using the UK standard of measurement, then transfer that fluid using a device using the U.S. standard of measurement (in this case 5ml at a time 6 times) what do you think the result will be?

Anyone remember when the Mars Climate Observer was destroyed because NASA confused imperial and metric measurements? They were off by the distance of a planet.

 

[Panini]

Is the measurement of a ml the same? I don't think the OP was measuring by the ounce...just using the one ounce bottles to transfer the liquid to and from.

 

[kushka]

I don't think you guys are understanding the potential math issue here. It's over a 1ml difference between U.S. and UK measurement standards per one U.S. ounce. If you purchased 30ml of fluid from a supplier using the UK standard of measurement, then transfer that fluid using a device using the U.S. standard of measurement (in this case 5ml at a time 6 times) what do you think the result will be?

Anyone remember when the Mars Climate Observer was destroyed because NASA confused imperial and metric measurements? They were off by the distance of a planet.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with buying what was sold as 30ml of ejuice from a US supplier and measuring out only 27 ml of ejuice from the bottle using a syringe manufactured for the US medical market. In fact the label says (manufactured in Philippines for Terumo medical Co. Somerset NJ). Nothing was bought from the UK or sold to the UK.

 

[champions]

So why the secrecy? No reason others should be getting screwed. Who cares if people defend their supplier. If they wanna continue to get ripped off let them, but at least let the rest of us that actually do care about our hard earned money know who it is so we can avoid getting ripped off. Makes me wonder if 18mg might not just be 10mg to save more money.

This is absolutely unacceptable and they should absolutely be called out on it!

 

[mauzey]

I don't think you guys are understanding the potential math issue here. It's over a 1ml difference between U.S. and UK measurement standards per one U.S. ounce. If you purchased 30ml of fluid from a supplier using the UK standard of measurement, then transfer that fluid using a device using the U.S. standard of measurement (in this case 5ml at a time 6 times) what do you think the result will be?

Anyone remember when the Mars Climate Observer was destroyed because NASA confused imperial and metric measurements? They were off by the distance of a planet.

This is not the Mars Observer, so lets keep it in perspective, this is E-Juice and should not be triffled with! ;-) Besides we are talking about ml not Oz. 30ml should be 30ml, not 27.xxx. IMO

J~

 

[Matodd]

I just got some 30ml juice last week its making want to measure it but I've taken a little out of each bottle. So now I'll never know. The measurement equivlants don't really matter 30mls is 30mls.

 

[Elendil]

Since there has not been a supplier named, this is not actually a review. Moving this thread to somewhere more appropriate

 

[El Dee]

Kuska you have made the right decision...Thanks for reporting what you have found....