Figuring out the right build

[kingdal]

So, you're looking at a brand new atty, cleaned and ready for coiling. How do you figure out the best build for it? I suppose you would start with a baseline (for me its 7 wraps of 27g on a 2 mm bit). If that works, great. But what if it doesn't? Do you go more wraps or less? Thicker or thinner wire? Bigger or smaller ID? What changes do you try first? Does Steam Engine figure in it at all?

I'm trying to understand if people have a systematic way of zeroing in on the best build, or if its all random. All comments appreciated. Thanks!

 

[NancyR]

I can only answer for me, but I don't have any set formula. Too many things factor in, such as size, the way the deck is laid out, the air flow, the amount of open space

 

[dbrandt01]

When I get a new atty I put the same exact build I have in my other atty's. twisted 28g at about 0.5 ohms. If I don't like it, I rebuild it sometimes up to 10 times to find what I like.

 

[MattyTny]

Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Next you want to figure what you're building for, is your atomizer geared toward blowing clouds or flavor? What kind of device are you putting it on? Do you want more battery life?

In any case, take the wire you want and the resistance you want and put it in the calculator. Then choose the coil's internal diameter. You'll see the number of wraps and vary the "heat flux" in watts to see what kind of heat you're producing. Coil diameters will also vary the wraps, in some cases we can't use larger sizes due to deck limitations.

We tend to pick our resistance first, then choose a wire suitable for it. I use 24 gauge for stuff around 0.4, 26 gauge for stuff around 0.5, 27 gauge for stuff around 0.7. Those examples are using dual coils though.

What device are you building for?

 

[IMFire3605]

I look at the width of the deck and space of the whole chamber first, this gives me a base line of what wire gauges and diameters I can use. Examples, an old Patriot, very wide deck, very big chamber, can do a 3 or 3.5mm ID coil, that diameter coil I can use 24awg wire in a single wire sleeper dual coil (positive for both coils is the same, wrap the first coil, leaving a loooooooong lead on the positive, mount that side's negative and the tighten the positive, then wrap the second coil and connect the negative of that coil) without drilling out the positive post wire hole. Example 2, Derringer, narrow deck with a reduced chamber, 2mm to 2.5mm ID maximum maybe 26awg wire. Next I look at airflow, does it need modifying or not (example Doge or Dark Horse), if not and it is adjustable (example Patriot or IGO W), will dial it in while vaping, with a fixed airflow top cap I build a setup the hottest I prefer, generally around a 0.35 to 0.4ohm, then gradually drill open the air flow a step at a time, drill, dremel burs, vape, to hot, next sized drill bit and repeat.

So yes, I look at a deck and top cap a lot when considering a new RDA, and try to imagine what a coil, wicking, and airflow pathway will be like, if something looks to be to much tweeking, pass it by, still like it after looking at it Mark1 eyeball in person, then I look at price.

Presently looking at the Bambino and Evil Monk online so far, still haven't bit the bullet on either as I haven't seen anyone with one I can look at the design in person.

 

[DaveSignal]

So, you're looking at a brand new atty, cleaned and ready for coiling. How do you figure out the best build for it? I suppose you would start with a baseline (for me its 7 wraps of 27g on a 2 mm bit). If that works, great. But what if it doesn't? Do you go more wraps or less? Thicker or thinner wire? Bigger or smaller ID? What changes do you try first? Does Steam Engine figure in it at all?

I'm trying to understand if people have a systematic way of zeroing in on the best build, or if its all random. All comments appreciated. Thanks!

The vape is warmer and the wire has more surface area with a lower gauge. Your ID is good though. IMO, 6 wraps is good for just about any kanthal wire around 2mm ID. With different gauges of wire, the resistance will change, but the wire will heat up the way that I like it to. If using nichrome 80, add two wraps, so 8-wrap coils.

If doing a parallel coil, 6 wraps is still good, but looks like 12 wraps so a bigger coil. Sometimes I do 5 wraps like this. Twisted coils don't work as well as just using a lower gauge wire.

I usually use 24g for a build with dual parallel coils. This is usually 6 wraps, sometimes 5.
Lately most of my builds have been using simple dual coil builds using 22g kanthal or 22g nichrome 80. Either 6 or 8 wraps, respectively.

The resistance will drop with a lower gauge wire, but you shouldn't build aiming at a resistance, other than to verify that you did it correctly and are not overpowering your batteries.

 

[zoiDman]

So, you're looking at a brand new atty, cleaned and ready for coiling. How do you figure out the best build for it? I suppose you would start with a baseline (for me its 7 wraps of 27g on a 2 mm bit). If that works, great. But what if it doesn't? Do you go more wraps or less? Thicker or thinner wire? Bigger or smaller ID? What changes do you try first? Does Steam Engine figure in it at all?

I'm trying to understand if people have a systematic way of zeroing in on the best build, or if its all random. All comments appreciated. Thanks!

I dunno if there are any Hard and Fast Rules that Apply to Everyone. But here are a Few that I think work well for Many.

1 - Start with a 3mm Diameter Coil. Larger Coils are Easier to Wick. And seem to be More Forgiving if you are not a Wick Pro.

2 - 6 or 7 Wraps is a Good Place to Start. Doing a Lot of Wraps can make it Harder to fit a Coil on a Deck.

3 - Don't do Super Low Ohm (<.75 Ohms) when first start out.

The Steam Engine site does a Very Good Job. And what you should consider to be the Most Important value that it tells you is the "Heat Flux". In lay terms, this is how "Hot" your coil is going to be for a given Wattage.

Notice that as the Ohms of your coil Increases, that the Heat Flux changes more Slowly for Changes in Wattage. And as Ohms get Lower, that Small Changes in Wattage make Large Changes in the Heat Flux.

And once you have a Working Build, and you have found the Optimal Wattage that you like for a Given e-Liquid, go back to the Steam Engine, plug in your Build / Wattage and write down the Heat Flux Value.

This can be your "Baseline" for future Builds when you want to Experiment with More/Less Wraps. And different Gauge/Type of Wire.

If you like 180 mW/mm² Heat Flux for one Build, chances are you will like 180 mW/mm² for a Different Ohm/Type of Build.

 

[roxynoodle]

Honestly, I look at the amount of wick I feel it needs and choose the diameter of the coil accordingly. Or if it uses tails down wick channels, I look at the size of the airhole feeding the coil.

I choose wire gauge based on whether I'm using a mech or regulated and how much power I'm wanting to push.

With a mech, this is what works great for me:

Single coil, 6 wraps of 26g.
Dual coil, 7-8 wraps of 27g. I might use 26g if the atty has a lot of airflow.

If I'm running regulated I may change things up quite a bit, and some of it has to do with deck size. For example, the Phenomenon Lite and Eviva-t have tiny decks so I'll still only do 6 wraps, but probably 28g since I can adjust my power accordingly and may as well run above 1 ohm ad save juice and battery. For a bigger deck I will probably do 8 wraps of 27g for 1.27ohm single coil. For duals it depends a lot on airflow. For a dual coil with less airflow I may use 28g and be in the 0.7-0.9 ohm range. For a tank with a lot of airflow I will use 27 or 26g, but maybe more wraps than I did on a mech.

 

[Wolfenstark]

On a mech mod I usually aim for 0.3-0.4 which is usually 2.5mm 5.5 wraps dual coil.

Reg mod anywhere up to around 1.2Ω dependant on atty and if single or dual coil.
Mostly use 26g kanthal and nichrome 80.

 

[kingdal]

Great replies everyone! Based on the responses, there are a lot of different factors to look at, depending on goals, the atty and the device. Very educational, reading through all the different ideas.

Everytime I get a new atty, I put my base build on it. If the flavor doesnt come out right, I end up changing wire gauge and wraps to get a lower or higher resistance. Rinse, repeat until I hit on something that works. Sometimes its 2 tries, sometimes its many more. Once in a while I never get it. It just seems so random. I figure there's got to be a more systematic way of dialing in the right build. Isn't there?

 

[kingdal]

First thing open this link
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Next you want to figure what you're building for, is your atomizer geared toward blowing clouds or flavor? What kind of device are you putting it on? Do you want more battery life?

In any case, take the wire you want and the resistance you want and put it in the calculator. Then choose the coil's internal diameter. You'll see the number of wraps and vary the "heat flux" in watts to see what kind of heat you're producing. Coil diameters will also vary the wraps, in some cases we can't use larger sizes due to deck limitations.

We tend to pick our resistance first, then choose a wire suitable for it. I use 24 gauge for stuff around 0.4, 26 gauge for stuff around 0.5, 27 gauge for stuff around 0.7. Those examples are using dual coils though.

What device are you building for?

Generally i build for bottom fed mech squonkers. And like you, I really like dual coils. Its just that sometimes I run into an atty that I cant get to taste right, they're mainly muted. And hunting through different builds randomly gets old real quick

 

[The Eciginator]

Not really, since what you like may be different than what I like or another vaper likes!

 

[Wolfenstark]

Generally i build for bottom fed mech squonkers. And like you, I really like dual coils. Its just that sometimes I run into an atty that I cant get to taste right, they're mainly muted. And hunting through different builds randomly gets old real quick

That is where I am at using a Reo.
Mostly build 0.3-0.4 Ω dual coil. Occasionally I'll go down to 0.25Ω but know your stuff and use good batteries.
Ive recently found using nichrome 80 can give you an extra wrap for the same resistance over the kanthal.

 

[MattyTny]

Generally i build for bottom fed mech squonkers. And like you, I really like dual coils. Its just that sometimes I run into an atty that I cant get to taste right, they're mainly muted. And hunting through different builds randomly gets old real quick

It sounds like you already have it down, but just experimenting what works best in what atomizer. Since you're using the reo, the short wicks will already lend hand to more efficient airflow. It may just be that you need to position the coils differently depending on how the air comes in and what you think you can do with it. Try moving the coils closer or further from the posts. You can also position the height in a way so air can come from under, or right at the coil. You can try them spaced. Or like Wolfenstark pointed out, the nichrome80 is lower in resistance so if you want to get an extra wire in, or a lower resistance with similar wire amount of wire.