- Aside from you disputing the numbers of C9's tests as it pertains to diketones in you all's products, do you feel that those numbers would represent an unsafe liquid? If so, why?
Unfortunately, we cant speak to those numbers because they are far higher than any test we've ever conducted regardless of the testing method. What we can tell you is we've spent many months and resources to try and understand the risk profile of DA and AP in a consumer/vaping setting. Toxicologists, Chemists, and Risk Assessment Scientists who we've contracted with and who have conducted studies for years surrounding these compounds have expressed minimal cause for concern in a consumer setting relative to vaping. We've funded research on how these compounds relate to vaping versus industrial exposure settings. We will be releasing some of this research shortly, which will be very interesting to consumers regarding these compounds in vaping. Additionally, we don't feel it is prudent for a manufacturer to set an exposure level. This should be left up to the governing bodies in every country to set those standards. Given the information we have today we completely stand behind the safety of our products and would not have our family members, friends, and consumers using a product that we thought was unsafe.
- Another co-owner of the company ( Gavin Tucker ) stated in Sept. 2014 that you will release the results of your testing as soon as you receive them. Your representative on Reddit ( Vinnie977 ) stated the same. As we now know you received your test results in Sept. and Oct. of 2014. Could you explain why the results were not released at that time. Vinnie977 was asked the question on Reddit and replied that he is no longer affiliated with your company and thus unable to respond.
Prior to those dates we tested multiple methods and our results were inconsistent. For example, some results came back with non-detectable while the same sample tested using a different method showed detectable levels. We needed to better understand these inconsistencies and better educate ourselves before we could educate our consumers as to how this could happen. This is why we spent the past 10 months validating our methodology of testing using GC/FID and as we stated in a previous post we will present that data quarterly.
Please explain if you feel AP may be of concern at some level, and if so, at what level. Have you relied on any studies to determine what the " safe level " is.
See answer above...
- The real question I have is, When is 5 Pawns coming out with a max VG for us sub-ohmers?
Five Pawns has no plans at the current time to come out with a max VG line. We are all a flavor company and do not want to sacrifice flavor for greater vapor production. That being said, we are launching a new line of liquids utilizing a PG alternative, which actually produces more vapor than PG and satisfies those who may have a PG sensitivity. These products will be released in the coming months.
- Did Five Pawns have a policy in regards to responding to questions about DA/AP and were representatives directed to respond in a certain manner.
We answered this before so I'm just going to cut and paste. See below...
Unfortunately yes, a small number of people received an inaccurate response to questions specifically relating to the presence of 2,3 butanedione (diacetyl) and / or 2,3 pentanedione (acetyl propionyl). After much investigation and having to scan all outgoing email from a customer service computer, we unknowingly found that responses sent prior to testing were being sent out between 5/27/14 and 10/19/15. Other than these small numbers of responses, we are not aware of any additional responses that occurred over the phone or otherwise. We feel terribly that these people were misinformed and have reached out to each and every one of them directly. Five Pawns has never advertised, marketed, or promoted the absence of these compounds in our liquids. We’ve only stated that we’ve never added diacetyl to our liquids. Unfortunately the diacetyl being detected was naturally occurring.
- Acetyl Propionyl (Pentandedione) can not in any way occur in Ejuice without it being intentionally and knowingly added. By your own test results, 7 of your 10 liquids tested positive. One in particular was as high as 628 ug/ml. Is this added at your own facility, or was it present in flavorings purchased commercially? If commercially purchased, were you aware of these levels prior to marketing them? Do you hope to completely eliminate this compound in your line?
To clarify, we do not add AP in our lab when mixing our liquids. AP was added by our flavor providers and this was not disclosed to us prior to us testing for that specific compound. As you can see from our latest test results on our website we have always evolved our recipes to reduce the amount of this compound without sacrificing the experience people have come to know from Five Pawns. We've done this not because we believe there is any associated risk but because the market has been asking for it. Additionally, we are expanding our current product offering to include our new PG Alternative line, which will be void of any DA or AP to satisfy those consumers who may have a concern with these compounds.
1. It appears that this 5P rep is providing a "non answer" since the operative word is CONTAINS. Is this email response "approved" as SOP by 5P?
See answer above...
- The earliest lab result that Five Pawns recently published occurred on 5/6/2014.
• Were there tests done on your liquids previous to that date?
• If so, when, and can we see those results as well?
• a "small number" of those who asked about AP/DA presence received an inaccurate response. How many of those asking between your first test, and July 1st of this year, received an accurate response?
1. We received our first test results on 5/27/14.
4. I cant give you an exact number but we've provided many with an accurate response.
- Hey Rob ... do you vape? If yes ... what do you use?
Yes I vape and I am currently on an egoT with a clearomizer. JK...LOL... I typically switch from Castle Long, Grandmaster, and Queenside but currently I am vaping something that will be released soon. Oh soo good...
- • Are there any plans to expand the flavor lines?
• Are there any plans to reformulate the current lines to low/no DA/AP other than the PG alternative line? (I like the current PG/VG line.)
◦ Will the current line still be available for consumers who simply don't care about diketones and like it?
• When are you going to start selling larger quantities?
1. Yes, we have many things in the works.
2. We will definitely continue to offer our most popular flavors for those that desire them.
3. No plans to sell anything larger than 30mls at this time.