Flavor Apprentice - Wizard Lab

[damthisisfun]

Hello - has anyone tried the Marlbaro flavor (with an "A") from Wizard labs - think it is a FA product. Thanks.

 

[purelyscientific]

I haven't tried it but...if your wondering if it tastes like marboro cigarettes it probably doesn't. Are you looking for a burning marboro tobacco flavor or are you looking for the flavor you get when you puff on an unlit marb cig? Chances are, even if it does taste like a marb, it won't taste like a burning one. Most people don't like the taste of burning plant matter. Know what I mean?

Give it a shot. At 1.69$ or whatev they cost, its worth it to test it out.

Goodluc!

 

[bivie]

I made a DIY with it, and so far, I can't stand it. Really disappointed. Granted, this
was my first DIY effort, but I followed directions I read on this forum. The problem
is that it is too perfumey, or floral, or something for me. I hope letting it steep a
week or so will help.

I also tried their Capt. Black and the Virginia stuff. Capt Black has potential, and the
Virginia has got a lot of potential. I just have to figure out how to bring it to life a
little more.

 

[glassmanoak]

"Concentrated M-type flavoring by The Flavor Apprentice" You can buy it from TFA as M-type. It is an OK flavor, IMO.
It's quite strong so I started at 1 drop per ml. Definitely needs to age.. awful at first mixing.
Wizard Labs usually lists the source somewhere in the description.. in small print. I find this admirable.

 

[damthisisfun]

1st attempt at DIY. 10, 3 mls bottles of 12mg nico 20/80 PG/VG with the following flavors from FA - Mango, Cognac, tobacco Absolute Blend, Cola, Black Honey tobacco, Hickory Smoke, Peach, Pina Colada, English Toffee and Captain Black.

Now to steep em for a week in a dark closet - or so I read.

I already see a problem. May need some thinning with water and/or vodka. That will screw up the Nico, FL and taste.........live n learn......

 

[chaos-7]

I mix the Marlbaro flavor at 7% with 1 drop of white vinegar for every 10ml. to get rid of the "perfumey" quality and speed up steeping.
5% marlbaro +1% tobacco flavor and 1 drop of white vinegar is also vary good I.M.O.

 

[RickMc]

+1 on the vinegar, except I use cider vinegar. It seems to smooth or round out some flavors, tobacco flavors among them. Experiment with amounts, but you won't get a vinegar taste. I also agree with steeping tobacco flavors. Many of them have a perfumey taste when first mixed, which usually mellows out with some steeping. Few taste great right away.

 

[damthisisfun]

Appreciate all the help. I pretty much added 5% flavor - abt 4-5 drops for each one I used. Didnt know about vinegar - hmmmmm - will give it a shot next time. I am just steeping these in a dark closet for a week - have read some folks leave it uncovered for a day, some put in hit water for a while......hope leaving it in as closet for a week (am thinking of shaking em once a day) will be good enough. Will test and add flavor as needed or steep longer - esp like all of you suggested for the tobacco flavors...........am wondering if this is why my Halo tob sample pack was so perfumy - one would think they would steep before sending their stuff out........hmmmm....

 

[Ralikar]

TFA=all perfumey and chemically.

There's posts here on DIY/recipes on good tobacco recipes (somewhere) may want to search for that... Maybe in recipes section... I found after some 40 vials TFA to be chemically and nasty, you may want to find a good posted recipe and tweak it rather than trial and error yours; IMO TFA too chemically to expect much less after time.

 

[rondasherrill]

In my limited experience, tobacco's usually require multiple weeks to steep. I have a batch of an RY4 that I have been working on, and after a week and a half, it is just now starting to smooth off and lose its "flowery-ness", but still needs a few more weeks.

 

[bivie]

In my limited experience, tobacco's usually require multiple weeks to steep. I have a batch of an RY4 that I have been working on, and after a week and a half, it is just now starting to smooth off and lose its "flowery-ness", but still needs a few more weeks.

I just made a batch of RY4 with Wizard Labs Double RY4. When I tasted RY4 before, it had a caramel flavor to it. This doesn't. Is that because it needs to steep longer, or is it not the RY4 concentrate that makes it taste like caramel? Maybe I have to buy separate caramel flavoring?

I added some cotton candy and brown sugar to it to see if it helped.

What's ironic is that I've been trying to DIY a good 'tobacco' flavor and progress has been slow because I just started DIY. Those flavors, at least the Marlboro, aren't working, yet. Then, I make RY4 expecting something more sweet and not 'tobacco-y', and the RY4 is tasting great so far as a mild 'tobacco' flavor (don't want mild, though, want IN YOUR FACE). But, I want a caramel flavor.

 

[Jim Bob]

TFA=all perfumey and chemically.

There's posts here on DIY/recipes on good tobacco recipes (somewhere) may want to search for that... Maybe in recipes section... I found after some 40 vials TFA to be chemically and nasty, you may want to find a good posted recipe and tweak it rather than trial and error yours; IMO TFA too chemically to expect much less after time.

With all due respect I couldn't possibly disagree more, while I haven't used "every" TFA/TPA flavoirng I have used many of the tobaccos and compared to purchased pre-mixed juices I don't find them to be one bit more perfume / floral tasting in fact more often than not my mixes rival pre-made juice for a fraction of the cost. IF you're getting "perfume/floral" I have to believe you're doing something way wrong (too much % of flavoring etc. ) I easily vape > 10 ML per day of my DIY (in a M&P tank) of TFA/TPA DIY without any of that so I feel there is something else going on here.

I'd suggest for starters you cut back on the % of TFA flavorings, mix well and see for yourself, The RY4 "Double" is amazing IMO and better as DIY (FOR ME) than many RY 4 I have paid much more for (to name only one )

 

[Jim Bob]

The "Double" (from TFA) is a stronger tobacco, you can steep it for a bit more caramel flavor but IF you're wanting heavy caramel (or vanilla) IMO you'll need to add it (this is one of my ADV I make a few 50 ml batches per time)

It does get "better" with time IMHO

I just made a batch of RY4 with Wizard Labs Double RY4. When I tasted RY4 before, it had a caramel flavor to it. This doesn't. Is that because it needs to steep longer, or is it not the RY4 concentrate that makes it taste like caramel? Maybe I have to buy separate caramel flavoring?

I added some cotton candy and brown sugar to it to see if it helped.

What's ironic is that I've been trying to DIY a good 'tobacco' flavor and progress has been slow because I just started DIY. Those flavors, at least the Marlboro, aren't working, yet. Then, I make RY4 expecting something more sweet and not 'tobacco-y', and the RY4 is tasting great so far as a mild 'tobacco' flavor (don't want mild, though, want IN YOUR FACE). But, I want a caramel flavor.

 

[18SixFifty]

Hit and miss for me. It takes a lot of work to get their flavors mixed right and that's if I ever did. I actually just tossed out a bunch of their stuff. I'll be sticking with Flavor West. Water soluble no steeping needed, vape it right away and it works.

http://flavorwest.com/

 

[rondasherrill]

With all due respect I couldn't possibly disagree more, while I haven't used "every" TFA/TPA flavoirng I have used many of the tobaccos and compared to purchased pre-mixed juices I don't find them to be one bit more perfume / floral tasting in fact more often than not my mixes rival pre-made juice for a fraction of the cost. IF you're getting "perfume/floral" I have to believe you're doing something way wrong (too much % of flavoring etc. ) I easily vape > 10 ML per day of my DIY (in a M&P tank) of TFA/TPA DIY without any of that so I feel there is something else going on here.

I'd suggest for starters you cut back on the % of TFA flavorings, mix well and see for yourself, The RY4 "Double" is amazing IMO and better as DIY (FOR ME) than many RY 4 I have paid much more for (to name only one )

I'm using wizard labs which is TFA/TPA and the only one so far that was even the least bit flowery is the Tobacco Absolute in PG, but that goes away after a couple weeks of steeping. None at all have been perfumey. I mix my juices @ 15% flavor, and so far so good.

 

[Jim Bob]

TA is STRONG(even when dilluted as directed) , one or 2 drops to start per 10 ML mixed joose, at that ratio it might taste "earthy or even grassy" but not floral at all, certainly not perfume. Some flavors may need > 20% but it's always best to start @ 5% or so and work up. IMO most times you get perfume/floral/soap it's because "too much of a good thing" isn't... YMMV taste IS subjective .

I use around 10% "RY4 Double" and mix several 50 ML batches per week and have never had these issues, to be fair I started lower and worked up (in small batches) to get the taste I was after. the TFA "Black Honey Tobbacco " @ 10% I'd bet WOULD be though some flavors are clearly "stronger" than others (why you start lower and work up IF needed) it's MUCH easier to add than dillute without affecting things (like nicotine mg) subtracting flavorings is tough (LOL)

 

[Jim Bob]

By "definition" RY4 = Tobacco, caramel, and vanilla (not to say some don't add to this they do) and this is where the "quandry" begins, some time ago an RY4 WAS those three and nothing more (with a sour note I can't place) China or "classic RY4" as Bill Herbst would say (and has) IF you have tasted it you know it, if not I doubt anyone can explain it adequately ...

Add to this almost no two people get the same taste from any one juice

Also some want the flavors to blend into one total unique experience while others want each to be "layers" in an RY4

So the reality is RY 4 is never the "same" from person to person and thus we have a "ton" of several very different variations, which "I" feel is a good thing and most understandable . RY 4 is an older ideal and has evolved over time, while Chocolate cake should taste somewhat like a choc cake, RY4 is not in the same league and IMO should never be expected to be.

While I (being one of the few who remembers the old "China RY4 with the sour notes and blended flavors impossible to write about unless you've tasted it) I would love for "that" to BE - RY4 but I totally embrace that is not the reality and I'm happy for that!

I have enjoyed many different versions of RY4 (including some with maple ) so long as we like our choices the name is not that important after all (IMO)

Good luck chasing the mythical RY4 dragon.
Every so-called RY4 I've tried has been different.
Some good, some terrible.

The TFA regular RY4 tastes nothing like the memory I have of the first RY4 I tried as a freebie sample from a vendor.
The TFA Double RY4 was their attempt to increase the caramel aspect.
I like it a lot better than the regular, but it still doesn't match up with what my memory says should be an RY4.

From looking at the comments and opinions people have on different vendors' variations of RY4, it seems to be one flavor that no one can agree on.
One person loves vendor A's RY4, and hates vendor B's. The next comes along and likes the exact opposite.
I'm half convinced the only way to get a good RY4 you like is to stumble upon a juice vendor with your same exact tastes by accident, or make it yourself.

Everyone agrees it should have some tobacco notes, caramel notes, and be sweet, but that's where the paths diverge.
Some say it needs vanilla, or marshmallow, or brown sugar, or cotton candy, or even butterscotch(?!).
It seems there are as many different recipes for RY4 as there are DIYers.

Try working on the components one at a time.
Find a base flavor you think might work, like the Double RY4, or a tobacco, and work from there.
If you feel it needs more caramel, add caramel.
If you think it's still lacking, try and decide what particular flavor is missing and add that.
If you've added everything that you think should be in there and you're still not satisfied, let it steep a couple of weeks and revisit it.
You may find after steeping that you can now taste what's missing.

Change your recipe, mix it up again, and let it steep.
A lot is trial and error, but discovery is half the fun of DIY.

On a sidenote, keep track of how much flavoring you've used when doing the taste-test and add method.
Try to keep your total flavoring percentage under 15% max.
Artificial flavors tend to have a "sweet spot" where they taste best, (my personal sweet spot seems to be around 7-10% for most TFA flavorings), and too much concentration can push them into an area where they start to taste chemically or just downright nasty.
If you find that your additions are pushing over 15% total flavoring in your mix, add more base, or adjust all your flavoring measurements down while keeping the same ratios, and mix again.

 

[bivie]

Thanks Jim Bob and J MacLeod.

What you'z guyz sayz makes sense. I guess I hafta make RY1, RY2, RYetc.

Interesting that you mentioned maple, Jim Bob, cuz I had my eye on that flavor. I just wanted to wait
to see how the rest of the ingredients did before doing that. But, I suspect that would be good. Maybe
some almond, too.

When I got home from work this morning, I gave the new bottle of RY4 the nose-over, and it smelled
more like caramel than before I gave it a bath and threw it in the closet.