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Flavor Idea Redux

Discussion in 'Bionic Vapor' started by IML8, Mar 7, 2015.

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  1. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Just a quick note, so I don't forget. I've been vaping this juice, for about a week straight now, side by side, in both the Goliath with dual coils at 30 watts and the Subtank Plus with a single coil at the Kbox's 13 watt setting (I think the actual wattage is slightly higher). It's very good in both, but I have to give a slight edge to the Subtank Plus. The flavor is still evolving, but from the Goliath I get more of the Toasted Marshmallow and from the Subtank Plus I get more of the Pineapple, so it's probably just a flavor preference thing rather than a performance thing. The coils are all identical (.8 ohms) and 15 watts on a single coil should be the rough equivalent of 30 watts distributed to the dual coils in the Goliath, in an electrical engineering sense for each coil. I just wanted to quickly document this in case the details become pertinent in future experiments for some reason. Also, it's now obvious to me that adding some Peach to this mix would work really well. I'm still pondering the other options. I have a few weeks to think about it.

    If he can find the time, I'm absolutely convinced JC could tweak this amateurish starting point into something exceptional.
     
  2. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    This new vape flavor development stuff is a long drawn out tedious pain in the derriere. This juice I'm fooling around with, after eight days of steeping, suddenly turned a corner. Practically all the fruitiness has simply faded away (Update: Only partially true. The other part was a mild case of Vapor's Tongue, but I don't think that really changes the direction I want to go with it.). I think it remains a very good base, but it needs some direction. I'm still thinking the peach would be the way to go, but who knows what this stuff is going to do in another few days of steeping and that must be taken into consideration. The only way to know for sure is to wait it out. In the meantime, I'm gonna have to start fiddling with something else.

    If it wasn't for the fact I don't want the "Flavor Ideas" thread to die out for lack of use, I would take this whole endeavor over to my mostly unused blog and keep track of it there. I'm afraid, however, if I don't keep this thread alive nobody will.

    I guess, because I'm stubborn, I'll tough it out and finish up developing this one open source flavor idea then I think I'm done. We'll see how it goes.
     
  3. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Note to self: If you're going to remove the drip tip, remember to keep your lips away from the chimney hole when you turn up the watts.
     
  4. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    While I wait around for next month's vape budget to open up some funds, I decided to add a little watermelon flavoring to a small batch of this mix to see how some more fruit flavor would play and watermelon flavoring was the only fruit flavoring I had left in my cabinet. It was kind of...hmmm...floral, I guess, at first, but it came around after a day or so and tasted better than expected. I didn't think these flavors would go together very well, but I was pleasantly surprised. It just confirmed for me that adding some peach, strawberry or some combination of fruit flavors to this mix is worth playing around with. A touch of watermelon doesn't hurt a thing.

    The problem with this sort of experimentation, of course, is that there is no reliable way to anticipate how drastic an effect steeping is going to have on all the possible variations without actually sampling all of them at all the various stages. It could take months to develop a single quality e-liquid to satisfaction. Going down this road, you begin to really appreciate all the time and effort people like JC at Bionic Vapor have invested in developing their lines of excellent juices. This may not be rocket science, but it is high art. I'm just drawing stick figures.
     
  5. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Moving on to stage 4 or something like that...I've lost track of the number of iterations. This is what I have in my shopping cart for the first of the month (about half are "out of stock" though, so it could be a while *shrugs*.):

    Jackfruit Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Pineapple Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    DX Banana Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Coconut Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Juicy Peach Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Strawberry Ripe Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Toasted Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Whipped Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Almond Amaretto Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Ethyl Maltol 10% PG Solution Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)

    As before, I plan to simply dump all of these 8ml vials together into a 4oz jelly jar, mix them well and use that concoction at 20% to make my vape juice. With 10 ingredients, that will effectively make each ingredient 2% of the final mix. Simple, no?

    I decided to bring back the Whipped Cream because I like dairy and I don't think that it was contributing as much of that buttery flavor aspect as the original Coconut Cream was and besides, if it was part of it, this will be at a lower percentage of the over all mixture than the first one was...I think. I'm adding the Peach and Strawberry because I can already taste some hint of those flavor profiles even without them explicitly in the mix and I think they will add more to the juiciness aspect. Amaretto, for those unfamiliar with it, tastes like a blend of almonds and maraschino cherries (to me). I think it'll work.

    As an aside, I've tried to make sure none of these ingredients contain any Diaceytal or other suspect chemicals, but if anyone reading this is aware of something I'm not, please let me know. There are a couple of reported tank crackers in the bunch, so there's that. All my tanks are glass, but I know there are still some people that have plastic tanks, so just be aware if any of this mixture happens to find its way into your posession.
     
  6. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Okay, I got all the ingredients in and mixed up a big batch. I'm done. Mission accomplished. I think you would be hard pressed to find another 10 ingredients that work together so well in equal proportions. A complex juice can't get much simpler than this. It's approaching perfection for my particular flavor profile.

    I would almost go so far as to christen it the "Perfect Ten", but nothing is ever actually perfect. I could call it the "Simple Ten" and that would be more accurate if it wasn't for the fact that it is a very complex flavor. The Simple Ten from a simpleton...the Simpleten? That works, I think, but how can I get JC to give this Open Source juice a trial run along side his line of premium juices? Maybe the "Simpleten River Cruise". Cruise up the rivers of France, Germany, Italy, Africa, South America, a couple in the Far East and finish up with a trip up the mighty Mississippi for some peaches and you arrive at this juice...or maybe, Simpletown. If JC ever tries it for himself, I think he would agree it's worth a shot. Oh well, I'll just call it good and be done with it.
    ¡Ya estufas!
     
  7. a wandering soul

    a wandering soul Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2014
    North Carolina
    i like what your working with there iml8! simplicity is the best thing if done right.
     
  8. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    I know I said, "¡Ya estufas!", but that was before I had a chance to examine the versatility of this mixture and the effects steeping had on it a little more in depth.

    I would like to note that anyone trying this, as is, will get a dominate Almond flavor when the mixture is fresh and I can see where a number of people might not like that aspect as much as I do, but it blends more into the background pretty quickly with steeping (never goes away completely and I, personally, wouldn't want it to).

    The good news is that the above mixture is a solid foundation that can withstand some variation and still work well for folks with different preferred flavor profiles from mine. None of the other flavors really stand out although they could probably be picked out by more sensitive and sophisticated palates than mine. If you (and by "you" I mean J.C.) just don't like the Almond flavor though, you can substitute something else in it's place and still get great results.

    So far, I've tried replacing the Almond Amaretto with watermelon and that made it more bright and fruity. It was really good. I've also replaced it by doubling one of the other ingredients and that worked well too. With the Jackfruit, for instance, it made that flavor come forward and highlight the tropical tones, but in a pleasantly subtle way. I also tried the same thing with the Juicy Peach and that changed everything, but it was still a subtle change that kept that solid background. I've also tried doubling a couple of the flavors on top of the 10 equal ingredients, effectively as an 11th ingredient, that worked as well, but with even more subtle results. I guess the lesson is, this mix is hard to screw up without some drastic deviation.

    I plan on performing the previous experiments with all the different flavors in the mix (the Strawberry Ripe is next), but I expect to get similar results and think I will enjoy all those simple variations on this theme. I also want to try replacing the Almond Amaretto with various other flavors that are not in the original mix as well to see how that affects it. Cantaloupe or Raspberry would be interesting to try. This could take years. I've taken to calling it my Arduino Project because of the open source nature of the Arduino prototyping platform and its relationship to Bionic technologies.

    Bionic Tonic?
     
  9. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    I've discovered that a big portion of steeping can take place when blending flavorings together and letting them sit prior to mixing them in a base and adding nicotine. This is good to know because, according to several chemists, flavorings have a much longer shelf life (more than a year) than the final products that may contain them.
     
  10. GPC2012

    GPC2012 ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 12, 2014
    Reedley Ca
    Nick, have you considered replacing the Amaretto with something like rum or bourbon flavor? If you play that direction with it you might want to have them the only one that is not equal in volume to your base. Both can be overpowering when used heavily, but both can also be a wonderful spin as a background note.
     
  11. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Not a big fan. Those flavors would probably work well for someone who likes them. All the juices I've tried that had those notes I've thought would be better without them. That's just me though. Give it a whirl and let me know how you like it.
     
  12. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    Monthly Update:

    The Arduino Project proceeds. Okay, so I was going to make a new batch replacing the Almond Amaretto with an extra Jackfruit, but as fate would have it, when I pulled the package of flavorings out of the bubble wrap while I was still in my garage, I dropped it on the concrete and broke the Whipped Cream and one of the Jackfruits. That leaves me with one each of 8 ingredients:

    • Jackfruit Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Pineapple Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • DX Banana Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Coconut Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Juicy Peach Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Strawberry Ripe Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Toasted Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    • Ethyl Maltol 10% PG Solution Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'll follow my previous methodology and just dump them all together. I'm gonna try it at a 16% solution instead of 20% this time though, so for a 50ml batch that works out to 8ml of the mixture or, if you prefer, a smooth 1ml (2%) of each. I think I'll call it "Destiny" and hope it don't suck. I'll let ya know.
     
  13. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    It doesn't suck. A bit Pinappley, but we'll see how it steeps out.
     
  14. IML8

    IML8 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    It was cloudy for a few days, but it's just about all cleared up and the pineapple has settled down. I like it. I think next month I'll leave out the toasted marshmallow and see how that works. It will only increase the percentages slightly if I keep the same flavor to base ratio...or I could reduce the over all flavoring to 14% and keep the 2% (1ml) per ingredient for a 50ml batch and see what happens. So many avenues to explore with this...I think you would have to be trying pretty hard to screw this up too much. It seems pretty forgiving on all fronts so far.
     
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