From the other side of the fence

[VapieDan]

Thanks to Mooch and all of you for adding to the safety of the vaping industry. Hats Off! That being said the vast majority of vapers do not push batteries to the extreme. Bearing that in mind I have two questions along those lines.

1. Assuming a common above ohm resistance range a 2-8 amp draw would be the norm. Does it benefit one to use higher amperage batteries at lower amp draws? Does this extend battery life? Both longevity (cycles) and the vape time for each session (mah) extended?

2. If there would be a catastrophic event in that 2-8 amp range will using a higher amp battery give one more time to address the situation before a final thermal runaway with less load on it?

 

[BackDoc]

"common" yes, Trendy? No......from the marketing one would think the whole vaping world was Sub Ohm at .1, with 200 watts, 100% vg, and is tattooed and pierced with a Amish beard .............not the case, but they have to sell us new stuff Dan..........I Think your postulate is correct regarding battery safety, I trust some, more Battery savvy will shine some light on this

 

[Baditude]

1. Assuming a common above ohm resistance range a 2-8 amp draw would be the norm. Does it benefit one to use higher amperage batteries at lower amp draws? Does this extend battery life? Both longevity (cycles) and the vape time for each session (mah) extended?

Your first priority when choosing a vaping battery should be for an adequate amp rating (continuous discharge rate or CDR). Then, choose a battery with a higher capacity (mAh) from that list.

So, yes, in general, it does benefit using higher amp batteries at lower amp draws, and can extend the overall longivity of the battery because its not being drained at its highest current output continuously.

2. If there would be a catastrophic event in that 2-8 amp range will using a higher amp battery give one more time to address the situation before a final thermal runaway with less load on it?

This is the whole point of using the "continuous" discharge rating instead of the "pulse" discharge rating when choosing batteries. If you are pushing your batteries to their upper limits by relying on pulse discharge rates, you are instantly "over-specced" for those batteries. There's no safe headroom available should a short occur. Bad things can happen really quickly!

This reminds me of the guy at a Texas vape convention a couple of years back. He was watching a "cloud chasing" competetion, when the mod in his pocket got HOT really quickly. He had some trouble removing it, and when he finally managed to remove it, he tossed it on the floor. The thing exploded like a hand grenade, with pieces making holes in the ceiling and catching the carpet on fire. The guy disappeared from the scene immediately, so no one knows what mod or what batteries or what resistance he was using; but its obvious a hard short occured and caused the batteries to vent.

However, if you allow yourself some safe headroom by using the continuous discharge rating, it gives you more time to notice a problem and take charge of the situation to prevent a catastrophe. At least you'll have time to notice if your button or mod body gets hot, and you'll have time to remove the atomizer or battery, or remove the mod from your pocket and place it out of harm's way.

The continuous discharge rate is a battery industry specification standard, and allows choosing between battery brands and models more easily. There is no spec standard in the industry for the pulse discharge rating, as each manufacturer defines this spec individually, and you have to research if their pulse is for a millisecond or several seconds or anywhere in between, (if they publish it at all). Therefore, pulse ratings are totally useless for vapers, IMHO.

Battery Pulse Ratings Are Useless

 

[VapieDan]

However, if you allow yourself some safe headroom by using the continuous discharge rating, it gives you more time to notice a problem and take charge of the situation to prevent a catastrophe. At least you'll notice if your button or mod body gets hot, you'll have time to remove the atomizer or battery, or remove the mod from your pocket.

The continuous discharge rate is a battery industry standard, and allows choosing between battery brands and models easy. There is no standard in the industry for the pulse discharge rating, as each manufacturer defines this spec individually, and you have to research if their pulse is for a millisecond or several seconds, if they publish it at all. Therefore, pulse ratings are totally usesless for vapers.[/QUOTE]

So it appears even if one is not using a battery to it's limits choosing a battery far above what is needed is not a bad idea. Thanks for the reply.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Agreed with the above. I'm a tootle puffer at 1.6A and I use a 20A battery. There's so much safety factor there it's ridiculous.

Overall, it'll slightly increase the longevity of my batteries, but not much more than using (say) a 10A battery would. 10A still gives me an enormous safety factor.

However, I still feel better using a slightly lower capacity 20A than a higher capacity 10A...so I stick with the 20A batteries since it makes me more comfortable.

Thermal runaway is far more likely if you're pushing your batteries, but can happen to any battery due to age, damage, defect, or other factors like excessive heat. Again, however, you're far less likely to see it happen if you don't push your batteries.

On the off chance it does happen, once started, thermal runaway is a positive feedback process. In less than a second, the battery is in full thermal runaway and there generally isn't time to react. For that reason, always use a device with large and well-placed vent holes or a battery door that's magnetic so it can detach under pressure.

And always, always use INR or IMR batteries for greater safety. They have a far lower probability of failing in a spectacular fashion. Older ICR batteries aren't appropriate for vaping, plus can fail with a jet of flame.

 

[Baditude]

On the off chance it does happen, once started, thermal runaway is a positive feedback process. In less than a second, the battery is in full thermal runaway and there generally isn't time to react. For that reason, always use a device with large and well-placed vent holes or a battery door that's magnetic so it can detach under pressure.

And always, always use INR or IMR batteries for greater safety. They have a far lower probability of failing in a spectacular fashion. Older ICR batteries aren't appropriate for vaping, plus can fail with a jet of flame.

Aside from using safer chemistry (IMR or INR) batteries, having adequate vent holes in a mechanical mod is equally important.

Unfortunately, most of today's mechanicals have vent holes in the battery cap, or none at all. When you consider that batteries are designed to vent from their tops, the gas pressure is going to accumulate in the top of the mod. Now consider that the battery itself may physically block gas from escaping through the battery cap hole(s).

IMHO, mechs should be taken to a machine shop with a drill press, and have at least two 2mm holes drilled stategically where the top of a the battery is located in the mod. Note the ideal location for holes in the mod below.

 

[KenD]

Also, higher amp rated batteries have lower internal resistance and might actually have longer runtime than higher capacity ones at the battery voltages we use.

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