Getting harder to support b&m's

[AndriaD]

If it's an authentic piece that is a GREAT deal. I would order online if I had patience to wait, and had better luck with not having defective or damaged things. Luckily I found a good B&M that is pretty reasonable compared to online stores.

I hear ya on the "patience to wait" aspect -- it's funny though, stuff I get from HK sails right thru customs on both sides; this Vamo, shipped from the Netherlands, has been sitting in customs in NYC since Sunday night, and I'm literally chomping at the bit over here, doing an "impatience dance" that probably looks like a little kid's "pee dance." Maybe it's because of the legality of "that other stuff" in the Netherlands.

I ordered that Vamo 08/03, and still don't have it; I ordered a driptip, 510/ego adapter, and some ejuice from Sweet-Vapes, in Wisconsin, on 08/08; the latter order left Wisconsin last night about 11:30pm; I bet I have it tomorrow, and the Vamo will still be sitting in customs.

Andria

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

In January on this year (2014) if we use a $0.01 profit per dollar for Chinese products China made $278,396,000.00 from US consumers; that profit had it been taxed would have put around $110,316,159.72 into our tax system.

(I used the balance between exports and imports as reported here https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html)

Your savings on a product from China collectively effect the US tax base to the tune of approximately $1,323,793,916.70 per year.

To put that number itself into prospective it equals 62,091 full time jobs paid $10.25 per hour.

That's why some folks don't mind paying the extra money for B&M products. A greater portion of the money I spend stays right here where I live, not forever lost to another country.

Obviously this is a bit over simplified, but the point remains.

Maurice

 

[AndriaD]

In January on this year (2014) if we use a $0.01 profit per dollar for Chinese products China made $278,396,000.00 from US consumers; that profit had it been taxed would have put around $110,316,159.72 into our tax system.

(I used the balance between exports and imports as reported here https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html)

Your savings on a product from China collectively effect the US tax base to the tune of approximately $1,323,793,916.70 per year.

To put that number itself into prospective it equals 62,091 full time jobs paid $10.25 per hour.

That's why some folks don't mind paying the extra money for B&M products. A greater portion of the money I spend stays right here where I live, not forever lost to another country.

Obviously this is a bit over simplified, but the point remains.

Maurice

But those B&Ms didn't *make* the products they sell (except ejuice, maybe)... most of them are MADE in China. So it doesn't matter that much where you BUY it.

Andria

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

But those B&Ms didn't *make* the products they sell (except ejuice, maybe)... most of them are MADE in China. So it doesn't matter that much where you BUY it.

Andria

When you spend $1 China direct China gets $0.01, when you decide to buy a China product at a B&M China gets their $0.01 and the remaining profit is split among the owner, employees, property owner, electric company, water company, local tax, federal tax, etc.

The impact is real money lost to our economy either way, but your not just supporting the B&M, you are also supporting the employees, the owner, and a whole slew of others in the process. A small fraction even helps some kid get his or her federal collage grants, or whatever makes you feel good that gets paid out of tax money.

Maurice

 

[Traijan]

I first remember my first raping at the b&m when I walked out with 2 1000mah egos with shatty clearos that leaked and a bottle of juice for $100...
Week later I ordered the same kit for 30 bucks from china and made my own juice since... I never shop retail anymore, and know better on most items!!... Since waiting in lines and paying more lost it's fun.. Thus, b&m gets no love from me.. But when I do go in, I never spend any money anymore and usually know much more then their "expert"... I walked into a b&m six months ago and walked out with 1100.00 in my pocket..
I unloaded most of my collected mods to them and due to the rarety of the items I got retail price on most. Even bought the provari that I was puffing on, lol..

Guess I got lucky on my first B&M visit. I hadn't even planned it, we had walked into the tobacconist shop to grab another pack of cigarettes and noticed that he sold vaping supplies. Walked out with a joyetech ego twist 1000 or 1100mah battery 2 disposable clearomizers, the charger usb dohickey and 2 bottles of liquid for $30 and he didn't charge us any tax. Unfortunately that place is 150 miles away from where we currently live.

I really want to support my local shops but when their prices are more than double online prices (I saw an MVP2 online for under $40, and she charges $89.99) it gets harder and harder to do. I went into her store to buy an MVP2 and a bunch of other vaping supplies but then saw the price tag and told her that I could get it for less than half the price if I bought it online and that I would never suggest that she sells it to me for the same price as what I've found it online but asked if she could reduce the price even a little. She stayed firm on the price, I declined.

Two days later we had to go to the "big" city about 70 miles away and bought the same MVP2 for around $50 and then ended up also buying a few tanks that we've wanted to buy, a few bottles of juice, coils, tips etc that we could have/would have spent with our local B&M if she had just learned that giving something like a $10.00 discount on the MVP2 would have gained her a repeat customer and would have been a couple hundred dollars wealthier that day. Instead she gets our repeat business..... We occasionally stop in and buy a coil once in a while now. I don't fault her, she's new to retail. Perhaps she'll learn to be competitive or she'll go out of business and wonder why she couldn't make it in a growing industry with high demand.

Yes, I really want to support our local business's but it's getting harder and harder to do when they refuse to (or can't be for whatever reason) be competitively priced not only with online prices but the general vaping market.

 

[spewny]

When you spend $1 China direct China gets $0.01, when you decide to buy a China product at a B&M China gets their $0.01 and the remaining profit is split among the owner, employees, property owner, electric company, water company, local tax, federal tax, etc.

The impact is real money lost to our economy either way, but your not just supporting the B&M, you are also supporting the employees, the owner, and a whole slew of others in the process. A small fraction even helps some kid get his or her federal collage grants, or whatever makes you feel good that gets paid out of tax money.

Maurice

This is a bit of a fallacy since you are describing the markup from the B&M as the specific money going into the local economy. There is a potential for the reseller getting a better price depriving Chinese vendors of 5-10%, but China is still being paid for the majority. Any profit to the local vendor could be spent on any number of goods or services locally that would have the same net impact to the local economy. Don't get me wrong, I am all about supporting local small businesses, but there has to be a value add to support a higher cost to the consumer. Community outreach and support, local programs, and political action are all items where I believe that a local B&M can provide value beyond help in the shop, but those still rarely justify a 50-100% markup on anything.

 

[AndriaD]

Guess I got lucky on my first B&M visit. I hadn't even planned it, we had walked into the tobacconist shop to grab another pack of cigarettes and noticed that he sold vaping supplies. Walked out with a joyetech ego twist 1000 or 1100mah battery 2 disposable clearomizers, the charger usb dohickey and 2 bottles of liquid for $30 and he didn't charge us any tax. Unfortunately that place is 150 miles away from where we currently live.

I really want to support my local shops but when their prices are more than double online prices (I saw an MVP2 online for under $40, and she charges $89.99) it gets harder and harder to do. I went into her store to buy an MVP2 and a bunch of other vaping supplies but then saw the price tag and told her that I could get it for less than half the price if I bought it online and that I would never suggest that she sells it to me for the same price as what I've found it online but asked if she could reduce the price even a little. She stayed firm on the price, I declined.

Two days later we had to go to the "big" city about 70 miles away and bought the same MVP2 for around $50 and then ended up also buying a few tanks that we've wanted to buy, a few bottles of juice, coils, tips etc that we could have/would have spent with our local B&M if she had just learned that giving something like a $10.00 discount on the MVP2 would have gained her a repeat customer and would have been a couple hundred dollars wealthier that day. Instead she gets our repeat business..... We occasionally stop in and buy a coil once in a while now. I don't fault her, she's new to retail. Perhaps she'll learn to be competitive or she'll go out of business and wonder why she couldn't make it in a growing industry with high demand.

Yes, I really want to support our local business's but it's getting harder and harder to do when they refuse to (or can't be for whatever reason) be competitively priced not only with online prices but the general vaping market.

That's my stand precisely -- when the stuff I can buy locally can be bought for a *reasonable* retail price, I'll very often pay it; for the convenience, for supporting the local economy, etc. And I make an effort to know what is a *reasonable* retail price, understanding that retail will always be higher due to the overhead -- it takes a lot of money to run a store, pay human bodies to be present, and keep the stock up, not to mention all the usual fees and taxes associated with any business but especially retail. So for those items, sure, I have no problem whatever with paying retail to support the local economy.

But the fact is that I'm on the lower end of the socio-economic scale; my own economy takes precedence, to me, over the national one; when I can afford to buy something online, NO MATTER where it comes from, but I cannot afford to buy it locally... well guess what, I'm going to buy it online. Nowadays, given the state of the economy, most people probably feel much the same, that the dollars in their own pocket (or lack thereof!) are a far more compelling argument than anything political.

Andria

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

This is a bit of a fallacy since you are describing the markup from the B&M as the specific money going into the local economy. There is a potential for the reseller getting a better price depriving Chinese vendors of 5-10%, but China is still being paid for the majority. Any profit to the local vendor could be spent on any number of goods or services locally that would have the same net impact to the local economy. Don't get me wrong, I am all about supporting local small businesses, but there has to be a value add to support a higher cost to the consumer. Community outreach and support, local programs, and political action are all items where I believe that a local B&M can provide value beyond help in the shop, but those still rarely justify a 50-100% markup on anything.

It's an overly simplistic view as stated in my original reply on the economic impact of buying China direct. You are correct in that the overage paid in profits on a Chinese product could be paid into the local economy elsewhere.

I'm standing firm on the concept that supporting the local economy via buying from shops or companies that employ people in your own economy is better than allowing the money you earn locally to seep out of the country.

The total impact of buying a Chinese product from a local company is somewhat if not fully mitigated by the taxed profit margin on the sale locally/in country.

Maurice

 

[David1975]

When you spend $1 China direct China gets $0.01, when you decide to buy a China product at a B&M China gets their $0.01 and the remaining profit is split among the owner, employees, property owner, electric company, water company, local tax, federal tax, etc.

The impact is real money lost to our economy either way, but your not just supporting the B&M, you are also supporting the employees, the owner, and a whole slew of others in the process. A small fraction even helps some kid get his or her federal collage grants, or whatever makes you feel good that gets paid out of tax money.

And this is one reason I wont buy a clone of a USA based product. YES, I want the zna, Hana mod, and evolve products and I want them NOW! LOL But I refuse to buy a clone of these. I can't say I have a problem with all clones, I think clones are good for trying a product in the aspect AndriaD mentioned .... you cant try an atty. To drop 100-200 or more on something you may hate ??..... But getting a clone of a product you know you want, especially one made in the USA... not something I will do. I wish B&M shops could work out a deal with some invertors/makers to somehow allow you to try their product in store and see if you like it. I tend to buy the clone first, if I like it, I get the authentic, if not... I pass it on. So if I could have tried some of the items I have bought, I would have either bought the original first and only, or not have gotten it at all... In a world where the B&M shops could do something more than I could on my own, I would say a mark up is fine. But I do feel (aside from testing flavors) these shops serve little to no purpose and in many ways only hurt the vaping community. That my opinion based only on my experience with the shops in my area though...

 

[faeriekitsune]

I think this is a common phenomenon with new B & M stores. My boyfriend walked into our local vape shop that just opened a few weeks ago, looking to buy me a present. He ended up walking out with a Tesla, but when I asked him how much he had paid for it he responded almost $80. I can find the exact same kit online for $42. Now, granted they showed him how to set it up and fill it, which you wouldn't be able to do with an online vendor, but almost twice the price is ridiculous.

 

[Johnnie Price]

I think this is a common phenomenon with new B & M stores. My boyfriend walked into our local vape shop that just opened a few weeks ago, looking to buy me a present. He ended up walking out with a Tesla, but when I asked him how much he had paid for it he responded almost $80. I can find the exact same kit online for $42. Now, granted they showed him how to set it up and fill it, which you wouldn't be able to do with an online vendor, but almost twice the price is ridiculous.

Which shop would that be?

 

[faeriekitsune]

Which shop would that be?

The new one in St. Mary's - Vapor 99. I went in a few days later and asked them about it. They have since lowered the price (~$60) but it's still a little high, even for retail markup.

I can't totally fault the shop, they are pretty amazing in every other way. Their starter kits and eGo stuff is decently priced (a little higher than online, but still reasonable) and the staff is knowledgeable. They even take customer feedback into account and have a Suggestion Box that they read every Sunday. I just don't understand the high markup on APVs.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

The new one in St. Mary's - Vapor 99. I went in a few days later and asked them about it. They have since lowered the price (~$60) but it's still a little high, even for retail markup.

I can't totally fault the shop, they are pretty amazing in every other way. Their starter kits and eGo stuff is decently priced (a little higher than online, but still reasonable) and the staff is knowledgeable. They even take customer feedback into account and have a Suggestion Box that they read every Sunday. I just don't understand the high markup on APVs.

If the market will pay the asking price...it's fair enough.

Some shops work on the principal that a high volume of sales makes up for a smaller margin in the markup. This can work really well if there is a solid customer base or really good advertising bringing in lots of paying customers.

However in a slow moving area you'll certainly see higher prices that reflect a slower turnover of product.

I have a friend that runs a game shop here in town, they pay $25 sq/ft per year for a 3000 sq/ft shop, that's $6,250 a month on the lease alone.

So nicer place, better paid employees, all equate to higher costs to bring you product.

Maurice

 

[Johnnie Price]

The new one in St. Mary's - Vapor 99. I went in a few days later and asked them about it. They have since lowered the price (~$60) but it's still a little high, even for retail markup.

I can't totally fault the shop, they are pretty amazing in every other way. Their starter kits and eGo stuff is decently priced (a little higher than online, but still reasonable) and the staff is knowledgeable. They even take customer feedback into account and have a Suggestion Box that they read every Sunday. I just don't understand the high markup on APVs.

Ah. The one I was talking about is Lizard Vape in Waldorf. They don't really sell anything I use other than liquid, but the staff and owner have always been very nice and friendly every time I walk in. They even made me some custom blended juice. They're worth checking out.

 

[Racehorse]

I appreciate having B&M around when I need something quick and can't wait to order and wait for mail. They saved my .... a few times for sure.

Otherwise, I shop online. But pay a lot of postage here and there, if I added it up it would probably be outrageous!

 

[etherealink]

If the market will pay the asking price...it's fair enough.

Some shops work on the principal that a high volume of sales makes up for a smaller margin in the markup. This can work really well if there is a solid customer base or really good advertising bringing in lots of paying customers.

However in a slow moving area you'll certainly see higher prices that reflect a slower turnover of product.

I have a friend that runs a game shop here in town, they pay $25 sq/ft per year for a 3000 sq/ft shop, that's $6,250 a month on the lease alone.

So nicer place, better paid employees, all equate to higher costs to bring you product.

Maurice

Call it "small town syndrome"...

If I can charge more and people still pay it, the price is still too low...

I see it everyday on everything.

 

[AndriaD]

I appreciate having B&M around when I need something quick and can't wait to order and wait for mail. They saved my .... a few times for sure.

Otherwise, I shop online. But pay a lot of postage here and there, if I added it up it would probably be outrageous!

I've started keeping the 'wishlist' that so many vendors offer, and saving my orders till I can order 3-4 things on that site's wishlist; saves postage, and sometimes just the waiting encourages me to decide I don't really need whatever-it-is -- have saved myself a great deal of money that way!!

Andria

 

[rspaff]

I also went through the same learning process with B&M. Went into two local shops, didn't like the selection at the first so went to the second. The people seemed fine and I relied on their expertise to set me up. They sold me, what they represented, as a Kanger Evod Starter kit. I liked it so I went and bought another one to have two tanks and two batteries. I purchased their coils which were also represented as Kanger. I didn't know anything about vaping so I expected them to be knowledgeable and honest with me.

Both batteries broke within 35 days. (30 day warranty). During that time i was doing my research on the web and discovered they were selling me clones. The coils were plugging after about 3 days, the tanks leaked and their price on liquid kept going up every-time I went in. After researching on the web (which I should have done first) I found internet suppliers that I trust and much better pricing. I try to support local stores when I can but to take advantage of me like that cost them a customer as well as any new potential customers that ask my opinion. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

 

[FattyJ]

Bottom line for me is there will be good and bad vaping B&M stores just like any other kind of store. I choose to give my money to a good B&M that has reasonable B&M prices and friendly, helpful customer service. I also appreciate being able to try flavors at their vapor bar. They have juice that ranges from .50 ml to almost $1 per mil, which is inexpensive enough for me to buy some locally and also buy juice online. If you can'd find a local B&M that you like than i see no issue supporting an American owned online supplier. My

 

[Vaponators]

I have no problem supporting local businesses and I understand the importance of keeping the money in the local economy rather than sending it abroad. However, I purchase most of my supplies online because of the convenience and more competitive pricing. There are a ton of vape shops down here in South Florida. But unfortunately, most of them are drastically overpriced.

If I don't feel like waiting for vape mail, I might visit a local shop to see if I can pick up the item I want immediately. But I'll do my research online first and check prices. If the local store owner is willing to match or even come close to a fair online price, he's got my business. If not, I'll wait for vape mail. I know B&M's have more overhead than most online retailers. But as a consumer, that's not my problem.

I just want to get the best possible prices on the items I buy. I can't justify paying a B&M 2 to 3 times more than online prices. If a store owner doesn't have the business sense to make a little less profit by offering me a competitive price and capitalizing on an immediate sale to someone standing in front of him with cash in hand, he doesn't deserve my business.