Getting started...testing flavor bases?

[ThatJoeGuy]

Howdy, all! I have yet to delve into the world of DIY, but I'm about to. I see several packages on the USPS website showing as 'Out for delivery', so instead of pacing back and forth waiting for vapemail, I figgered I'd finally sit down and write out my initial question when it comes to DIY.

Now, I have very little money to spend on this right now, so waste is a big concern of mine at this time. The way I've been thinking of approaching DIY is by creating a 'flavor base' first, before adding the additional PG/VG/Nic, to see if the combinations of flavors will work. Does this make sense?

Now, never having created any of my own juices, I've not had to deal with flavorings by themselves yet. I know they're highly concentrated, so I don't think that combining, say, apple and pie crust flavorings is going to give me a very accurate flavor profile if I just dip a clean toothpick or dropper or something in it and taste the flavoring combination by itself. I would imagine that the flavors would just be overpowering on the pallate. BUT, taking the flavors themselves and combining them apart from PV/VG...and THEN adding a drop or two of the resulting flavor to a small amount of the mixer formula...would that work?

Hopefully I'm making some sense...I'm just mulling this all over in my head so I can kinda' formulate an approach before I actually start wasting anything.

 

[rkayw]

First, let me say...if you figure out how to learn DIY'ing without wasting flavors etc...please let me know! lol.

I am certainly no pro at this, with that being said, take it for what it's worth. I mix a flavor base and then add to my pg/vg (no nic) to test.

I do not taste flavors straight, they are strong (concentrated) and can fry your taste buds if your not careful. Worse thing for vapers is having no taste. lol.

Some taste flavors in a line of whipping cream.

Sorry, I was not much help was I.

 

[Hoosier]

Yeah, the whipped cream trick is your best bet for the odd way you're looking at starting.

I say odd just because it is not the way I do it. Not that you are a raving lunatic just for wanting to do it that way or anything.

When I am working up something I will take each flavor that I think will be part of my mix and mix them individually. This allows me to get the right level of each component. Then I start mixing the individual mixes together to find out the way they combine.

Now I don't always do this as some flavors I have worked with enough that I can guess the whole thing from scratch, but I always do this for any tobacco mix as tobacco flavors are completely different depending on level of flavor. (As in increasing the flavoring %'s does more than increase flavor, it completely changes the taste all together.) So, starting out without experience in the strength and how flavors tend to combine, I, being me, would us my method.

Now, the quandary as to why I'd use my method being as I am me is a complete mystery.

 

[ThatJoeGuy]

I am certainly no pro at this, with that being said, take it for what it's worth. I mix a flavor base and then add to my pg/vg (no nic) to test.

I do not taste flavors straight, they are strong (concentrated) and can fry your taste buds if your not careful. Worse thing for vapers is having no taste. lol.

No, no! That's pretty much confirming my theoretical approach. Mix flavors together independently of the PG/VG first, then add to small amount of the PG/VG to test.

 

[rkayw]

Hoosier, I think I'm liking the way your method sounds. Elaborate please.

So you mix each individual flavor in pg/vg, then mix all together once you have each individual one tasting the way you want it? Is that right?

There really IS a learning curve to DIY isn't there. lol. I haven't reached the summit yet...obviously.

 

[rkayw]

No, no! That's pretty much confirming my theoretical approach. Mix flavors together independently of the PG/VG first, then add to small amount of the PG/VG to test.

I started doing mine this way because it seemed easier for me to then try my flavor base at different % strengths (5% flavor up to 20% flavor) mixed in pg/vg. And it seems easier to me to add more of something if needed to my flavor base to tweak it. I'm still learning DIY myself. It's fun. Good luck with yours.

Read read read...take lots of notes on your mixes, and just have fun with it. IMO it's easy to get discouraged when starting out, you will have mix fails. And there will be a waste of supplies to some degree, but...keep going.

 

[ThatJoeGuy]

When I am working up something I will take each flavor that I think will be part of my mix and mix them individually. This allows me to get the right level of each component. Then I start mixing the individual mixes together to find out the way they combine.

So you mix individual flavor components with PG/VG first, and THEN combine them?

 

[ThatJoeGuy]

I started doing mine this way because it seemed easier for me to then try my flavor base at different % strengths (5% flavor up to 20% flavor) mixed in pg/vg. And it seems easier to me to add more of something if needed to my flavor base to tweak it.

Right, that's exactly why I was thinking of taking this approach!

 

[dotma]

This is just what i do now because i wasted a lot of supplies at first. I bought a little painting pallet thingie at walmart for like 97 cents. It has little dips all around in a circle. Then (since i do all VG), I drop about 7 drops of VG into several of the little dips. Then I drop about 2 drops of flavor in those same dips and mix the VG and flavor together. Then i suck some up with a syringe and drip it on my 306 atty to taste. I end up mixing some together, making some flavors, discarding others for another time, but there is very very little waste. At the end I will add the nicotine drops because those are really the most expensive part of the whole process and you dont wanna waste that stuff.

 

[rkayw]

Right, that's exactly why I was thinking of taking this approach!

But, Hoosier's way sounds good too. Especially to learn how each flavor works. Some are a lot stronger then others. Either way, your still going to use pg/vg.

Thinking about this...Hossiers way there is probably less waste of product...getting each flavor right first. IDK though...I can't speak for him or his method. It does sound interesting though.

I'm going to watch your thread here and learn with you.

 

[ThatJoeGuy]

That sounds brilliant, dotma! Looking online now to see if I can get a visual on what you're referring to...

 

[rkayw]

I like that idea too. Thanks Dotma!
Your way sure would save me time not washing a boat load of dram bottles too.

ETA: I have a little paint palette...somewhere...let tearing the house apart looking for it begin.
(easier then going to Wal-Mart on a Saturday; and ending up buying/spending more then I went after...lol)

 

[dotma]

http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Paint-Palette-10-Wells/dp/B000BY9WHC

can you see that? the paint thing is like that

 

[rkayw]

Yes! I found mine (I have 2, and actually found them in the first box I looked in, lol. Must be a good sign.).
I'm excited to try this Dotma. Sooooo many flavors in my stash that I have never tested.
Thanks for starting this thread JoeGuy!

 

[atom48]

This is just what i do now because i wasted a lot of supplies at first. I bought a little painting pallet thingie at walmart for like 97 cents. It has little dips all around in a circle. Then (since i do all VG), I drop about 7 drops of VG into several of the little dips. Then I drop about 2 drops of flavor in those same dips and mix the VG and flavor together. Then i suck some up with a syringe and drip it on my 306 atty to taste. I end up mixing some together, making some flavors, discarding others for another time, but there is very very little waste. At the end I will add the nicotine drops because those are really the most expensive part of the whole process and you dont wanna waste that stuff.

I'm thinking of DIY sometime in the near future. This is a great idea. Thanks, Dotma.

 

[ThatJoeGuy]

Found this: Walmart.com: Plaid Palette Value Pack, Set of 3: Crafts

 

[rkayw]

With using the paint palette idea...I hope to actually create a excel spreadsheet for myself...of all of my individual flavors and what % I like them best at as a standalone flavor.
Guess you could say this means I'll be going back to the ground floor, and starting over. Hoping it helps me at some point later in my DIY.

I think I recall reading that to learn to mix well, you have to first learn how to mix individual flavors correctly based on their strength/concentration?? I never truly did that step.
But instead I tried to jump in mixing complex recipes, and then wonder why oh why am I dumping more then I'm keeping.

So again, thanks Dotma for your post...and JoeGuy for your thread.

 

[nanovapr]

I am using the Excel calculator. I create a recipe, that includes X% of this flavor and Y% of that flavor, and store it. A one ml syringe has fine enough resolution you can easily measure tenths of a ml, and be pretty close on measuring hundredths. Then I choose the PG (for me) nic-free calculator sheet. Choose that recipe and make a very small test batch, like 1 ml. Quick-steep in hot water, then just try a few drops on an atty. Rather than just 'dumping in more' that I cannot recreate, I go back to my original recipe on the spreadsheet and modify it.

"That was too much X, I'll try (whatever)". I then make a new batch. Risking 1 ml test batches with zero nic is economical enough I can throw that out. As long as I am changing the recipe on the spreadsheet each time and start with a new batch I am keeping it completely accurate. Once I get something I like, I go to the nic portion of the spreadsheet, choose the same recipe, plug in the total I want.

If I have been consistent in using the spreadsheet and accurate in measuring my tiny tenths in the test batches, it's easy to scale it up, knowing it will be just the same.

 

[dotma]

Youre so welcome guys, im happy somebody likes my idea! lol. My thought was that with 7 drops of VG and then 2 drops of flavor and 1 drop of nic (which i add later) that would be at like a 20% flavoring. I guess not an exact science for me but it keeps me from wasting stuff and using a billion bottles, etc.

 

[Hoosier]

So you mix individual flavor components with PG/VG first, and THEN combine them?

For figuring out a blended mix recipe, yes.

I know how much of X I want in XYZ so I find that level first. Then combine. That is why notes are so important.
Once I have the recipe figured, the flavors go in, then the PG/VG, then the Nic. But the experiment beforehand is much more drawn out. It is just the end result looks easy and is easy.