Give the forum your story to help get it legal

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Denni

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Denni, the reports on antidepressants must be understood in many different contexts. It's quite true that many people who are given them should not be and it's also quite true to say that big pharma pushes them, and they really shouldn't.

The big problem, though, is the chronic lack of interest in mental health issues by government and society at large. In fact, I'd say depression, although far better understood than in the past, is one of the last great taboos we have. Certainly in the UK.

However, antidepressants are extremely valuable for those that genuinely do need them. Speak to any front-line medical professional and they will tell you the same thing: When someone presents to them with clinical depression and is given the right antidepressant, they are 9/10 times extremely effective (in the short term).

Clearly the major caveats here are, firstly, getting the right drug which, at the moment, can only be done on a trial and error basis and, secondly, the consideration of the proportion that are not helped by any of these drugs.

Then there is the problem of volition. This can occur in the period between starting the drug and the drug having its full effects: Simply put, before the drug has its mood-improving effects, it often causes the patient to recover their energy, both physical and mental.

This is potentially very dangerous for someone who has been deeply depressed and has had suicidal thoughts, but hasn't taken any action because of the lack of motivation associated with depression. Some patients have taken their lives in this period.

It is a tough one. In my opinion, the evaluation of depressed patients should be very thorough - preferably carried out by a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist. Certainly, if a patient expresses any suicidal thoughts to their primary healthcare provider, this should happen. Those who are deemed at risk should be hospitalized until they are seen to be responding to the medication.

In the UK, there is simply not enough money to do this. Far too few clinical psychologists are being trained (DH Cohen: CBT is inadequate and administered by the unqualified | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk) and inappropriate treatment is often given.

The most important factor of all is what is done when the patient is responding to the drugs. Often they will simply be sent off and re-evaluated on subsequent prescription re-writes but never referred for talk-therapy.

Some people may well just need the one course of drugs to help overcome a difficult time in their lives, but others (for whom the majority of prescriptions are written), will likely end up being off and on the drugs for years. These are the people with deep-seated issues involving low self-esteem, trauma and neurological deficiencies.

Evaluating the effectiveness of ADs comes down to how we define success in treating mental illness. If a single illness episode is overcome but the underlying issues are left untreated is that a successful outcome?

Yes and no, I'd say!

SJ, I have direct experience with this. Certain drugs are dangerous when prescribed to people with certain conditions/family histories. They can induce mania, extreme hostility and suicidal urges (not mere ideation). Just look up the furore surrounding SSRIs. In many cases they should not be taken without mood stabilisers (at the very least!). That's why US psychiatrists have a proper grounding in psychopharmacology (although they tend to over-subscribe).

Yet these things are handed out by UK GPs, not by properly trained specialists. Moreover, the medical establishment has fallen hood, line and sinker for Big Pharma's PR that these things cause adverse effects only in the rarest of cases (pah!). This includes clinical psychologists which most patients won't even get to see. Their incompetence is staggering. I've seen a couple in my time, and none of them has taken a proper history (apart from one who had good reason to).

I'm the first to want help for people who suffer from depression. But relying on pills the mechanisms of which aren't understood (the 'serotonin hypothesis' remains unproven and unfounded) and disregarding patients' accounts of adverse effects is doing no-one a service.

And as for Zyban--wait and watch the **** hitting the fan. Personally I always thought it was one of the lesser troublesome drugs.

This is in danger to go well off topic, perhaps we should move this discussion to another thread ;)
 

Oliver

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Hi Denni,

I agree with all of what you wrote, but the trouble that I see, particularly with regards to SSRIs, is that there is a big problem with the marketing of these drugs by big pharma and a big problem too with an over-reaction in the media.

Please don't take that to mean that I don't recognise the dangers of prescribing SSRIs to the wrong people or that some will react badly, but depression is a disease that is threatening to reach epidemic proportions over the next few decades - and the drugs do have a role to play in combating this in many people.

SSRIs and other antidepressants are extremely potent psychoactive substances. Very powerful drugs - and the willingness by many doctors to dole them out to all and sundry is almost certainly down to the marketing that took place in the early nineties.

I can even remember one pharma executive suggesting that "everyone should take prozac" !

This lack of respect for the power of SSRIs needed to be re-addressed, and I would suggest to you that this has happened. However, I have also encountered many people who have resisted taking them because of some of the reports, and many of these people probably should have done. Instead, their lives fall apart.

Additionally, there are now doctors who are unwilling to prescribe SSRIs at all, and with psychiatric referrals a scarcity, people are starting to go untreated for depression.

So what's the solution? Training more psychiatrists and psychologists would be a good start, as would a better understanding (or any real understanding) of how the drugs work. Genetic screening should, in years to come, be able to predict which drugs will work for which people - but that's a long way off.
 

Denni

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Sep 3, 2008
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denni-schnapp.livejournal.com
Hi Denni,

I agree with all of what you wrote, but the trouble that I see, particularly with regards to SSRIs, is that there is a big problem with the marketing of these drugs by big pharma and a big problem too with an over-reaction in the media.

Please don't take that to mean that I don't recognise the dangers of prescribing SSRIs to the wrong people or that some will react badly, but depression is a disease that is threatening to reach epidemic proportions over the next few decades - and the drugs do have a role to play in combating this in many people.

SSRIs and other antidepressants are extremely potent psychoactive substances. Very powerful drugs - and the willingness by many doctors to dole them out to all and sundry is almost certainly down to the marketing that took place in the early nineties.

I can even remember one pharma executive suggesting that "everyone should take prozac" !

This lack of respect for the power of SSRIs needed to be re-addressed, and I would suggest to you that this has happened. However, I have also encountered many people who have resisted taking them because of some of the reports, and many of these people probably should have done. Instead, their lives fall apart.

Additionally, there are now doctors who are unwilling to prescribe SSRIs at all, and with psychiatric referrals a scarcity, people are starting to go untreated for depression.

So what's the solution? Training more psychiatrists and psychologists would be a good start, as would a better understanding (or any real understanding) of how the drugs work. Genetic screening should, in years to come, be able to predict which drugs will work for which people - but that's a long way off.

Amen to all that, but before bad stuff happened to me I also thought that media reports were exaggerated. They aren't.

Either we get proper psych facilities/personnel, or the whole of society will be in big trouble.

Genetic screening may be of some use, but there are an awful lot of genes involved in the various forms of depression.
 

rustylug

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I am begining to think this thread is going of its mark ....Its meant to be a thread about when you started smoking, your age, how you discoverd e-smoking and how it has helped you etc etc..... Listen to me talking about going off the mark ....Done it a few times myself on other threads .... so no offence meant...sorry.
 
All I got to say is that E-smoking changed my life, perhaps saving it also, and it saves me money. because I normally smoke Nat Shermans Classic which are about eight bucks a pack and i was a pack a dayer.
I still have a pack lying in a desk in my study but I really have no urge to even touch them... hehehe
but I love E-smoking and many of my friends and family also.
E-cigarette-forum, and all of the users, Thanks.​
 

tribalmasters

Vaping Master
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Jul 19, 2008
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Coor thought I was at the PsychCentral forums for a moment there! Expected to see queries like "How much Diazepam should I take for paranoid schizophenia before I become addicted" or "I went against what my psydoc told me" or "How do I fix my constant panic attacks" I love reading psychcentral, the hints and tips there are very helpful
 

tribalmasters

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 19, 2008
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I have enjoyed my ecigs so much, I can't even remember when I gave up! I think it was like 5 or 6 months ago, started on the patches but felt a great loss and missed the cigarettes so much. I tried a fake 'tobacco' flavoured plastic ciggy from the pharmacy and that helped but not very much. After that I read an article on a gadget blog about these mysterious 'electronic cigarettes' and instantly became interested. After a little googling I saw an ad for a Gamucci ecig with videos and became VERY interested! I found the gamucci on sale and thought about purchasing thats when I found this place!

About a week later of reading the great advice available on this forum I joined up and ordered a generic penstyle RN4072 from our friend Pillbox38. Whilst waiting I viewed video reviews by our friend Dusty (RatInDaHat) and started getting real excited! Well when my penstyle arrived and after religiously charging it up (and not leaving it eight hours haha couldn't wait), I was blown away! The hand to mouth action, the vapour, the lack of nasty smel it was like heavenl!!!At first the taste reminded me of digestive biscuits with throat hit!!!!!!! Not long after I got used to it.

Next I discovered our friend Smokester and tried the 901 mini and that was just as bloody lovely as the penstyle only smaller! I tried many different flavours and love the menthol and vanilla best oh and recently his 555 and hopefully RY4 when I try it.

My experience of the things has gone up too thanks to this forum! I now can make my atomisers last by washing them and taking care of them like draining them overnight and boiling the atomisers! I wrecked my first penstyle by not knowing how to care for it but after trusting myself with another, all is good and I refill my own cartridges and drip directly on the atomiser! Dripping seemed like something far too complex for me when I started!

So apart from the exciting gadgetry that is ecigs I have been off the smokes and have no intention of going back my brother even tried to tempt me!! I feel healthier and proud of myself for giving up this long but I couldn't have done it without you guys and this forum!
 
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