Giving up e-cigs by going back to tobacco :-(

[drasim]

What a rough month...

A few days ago I decided to give up the Titan until next Thursday, and in the meantime I'm back on the rollies. It's a strange move, but justified.

Over a month ago, literally 2 weeks after I bought the Titan, I noticed I've been waking up with really aching legs, and that it would follow me throughout the day unless i'm out and about walking. (it would get worse when resting).

After talking to the doctor about it, they tried fobbing me off with that it could be my lifestyle (lots of driving with my work in addition) and weight (overweight)...but because there's no visible issues she couldn't really understand it, so then tried saying it could be "glandular fever".

I decided that the doctor, as most doctors at my local surgery, doesn't really know what's wrong, so I demanded a blood test. The blood test came back mostly fine, apart from one (which I didn't understand what it was for....health terms are greek to me) so I'm off to the Docs next week about it.

I decided in preparation for going back to the docs, I've achieved the following so they can't use as reasons for this leg problem I have:

Lost 1 stone in weight
Have less driving throughout the week
Not using e-cigs

Alas, after about a week of e-cigless hell, I've still got this problem. But at least the doctor next Thursday won't be able to fob me off again

 

[scrubadub]

Definitely a good idea to see the doctor about it but aching legs are a common symptom of vaping. Especially in the early days. There's been quite a bit of discussion on here about it, I think there's a thread called 'symptoms and side effects' or something like that in the health section. Apparently propylene glycol breaks down into lactic acid in your system which is the same chemical that makes your muscles feel sore after exercise. I know my legs ached on and off for the first few months but now they are fine. Hopefully it's nothing more serious than that. Good luck at the doctors!

 

[drasim]

Thanks for that - so I could potentially put it down to the use of glycol. I did look at the health section for this months posts, but mostly found throat and chest related threads.

Did you notice it with particular brands of liquid, or mixing with various VG/PG?

I am looking forward to getting back to vaping, and this really is a temporary measure until later next week.

Unfortunately I have to be careful about this as the aching has sometimes affected my lower back.

Thanks for the information as it has given me more to think about

 

[Jefflan]

Hi Drasim, Sorry to hear you have gone back to tobacco. Hope your symptoms clear up soon. Third post down on this thread maybe of some interest to you http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/34790-lactic-acid-build-up.html
All the best

 

[scrubadub]

Yes it could well be the use of PG. This is the thread I was talking about:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3305-list-common-symptoms-when-e-smoking.html

I never noticed a difference between brands and I've always used PG or PG/VG so can't really comment on the difference between the two. I did read up on the common symptoms before I started vaping so was looking out for them and expecting them to pass - which they did.

VG breaks down to glucose in the body so you shouldn't be getting extra lactic acid in your system if you vape that. Also some people are allergic to PG so that might be worth keeping in mind. You could try only using VG liquids after you get checked out at the doctors and see if that makes a difference.

 

[bigringo]

I spend a lot of time weight training and one of the known side effects of nicotine is restriction of the capillaries. I wonder if anyone out there knows if the nicotine in the e-cig will produce the same effect ?, as this can cause a lot of symptoms such as sore/restless legs etc which might be a clue if you are using a high strength liquid.

 

[BarryK]

What a rough month...

A few days ago I decided to give up the Titan until next Thursday, and in the meantime I'm back on the rollies. It's a strange move, but justified.

Over a month ago, literally 2 weeks after I bought the Titan, I noticed I've been waking up with really aching legs, and that it would follow me throughout the day unless i'm out and about walking. (it would get worse when resting).

After talking to the doctor about it, they tried fobbing me off with that it could be my lifestyle (lots of driving with my work in addition) and weight (overweight)...but because there's no visible issues she couldn't really understand it, so then tried saying it could be "glandular fever".

I decided that the doctor, as most doctors at my local surgery, doesn't really know what's wrong, so I demanded a blood test. The blood test came back mostly fine, apart from one (which I didn't understand what it was for....health terms are greek to me) so I'm off to the Docs next week about it.

I decided in preparation for going back to the docs, I've achieved the following so they can't use as reasons for this leg problem I have:

Lost 1 stone in weight
Have less driving throughout the week
Not using e-cigs

Alas, after about a week of e-cigless hell, I've still got this problem. But at least the doctor next Thursday won't be able to fob me off again

I have had a problem with bad circulation in my lower legs for years,(numb toes, cold feet, almost painful discomfort in my calves, etc.) especially in the colder months - it's a common ailment of long term smokers I believe.

However, whenever I've previously completely stopped smoking, the circulation has improved to the point of almost no discomfort at all.

I have now been using the e-cigs for over a year and my discomfort is as bad as ever, I can only put this down to the continued (and possibly more efficient?) intake of nicotine.

I have mentioned this to my doctor and his response is always to ".....take half an aspirin a day - that'll sort it" - But It never does, and I'm not looking forward to this winter one bit.

Over the past year I've cut the nicotine down from around 2ml of 24mg/ml per day, to 2ml of 9mg/ml per day, so even though my nicotine intake is reduced by approximately one third, I'm still getting serious discomfort from the poor circulation - It would seem that the only answer is no nicotine, but I don't think I'm ready for that step yet.

So Drasim, can I suggest that the problems you are experiencing could be due to bad circulation........?

Anyway, I hope you find an answer soon...

Cheers
Barry

 

[Amberleaf]

Hi all, first post for me on this forum.

The circulation thing is definitely a concern for me. I gave up 'logs cold turkey earlier this year for 3 months and within a few days I got that warm tingling sensation in my hands and feet as the circulation came back.

I've been vaping now (no 'logs) for just over a week now and my circulation feels as bad as ever with my hands and feet feeling cold. It could possibly be the nic as I'm vaping 18mg which I feel is a little too much for me.

I'm not going to be hasty and give up on it any time soon but it's something I'm going to watch very closely. I've always had bad circulation probs when I smoked and feared that it would end up costing me my legs if I carried on. I'll let you know if things change.

 

[Crash]

E-smoking is meant to be a safer alternative to traditional smoking, but yes nicotine is still harmful regardless of what way its consumed.

Cardiovascular

Cardiovascular effects have included increases in heart rate and blood pressure. New ventricular and supraventricular tachycardia, increase in PVC frequency, less supraventricular arrhythmia, less arrhythmia and lower heart rate, new ST segment depression, and an improvement in ST- or T-wave changes have been reported in patients with coronary artery disease given transdermal nicotine for smoking cessation. The average heart rate and incidence of arrhythmias or angina has not been shown to be significantly different from baseline while smoking and during transdermal nicotine therapy in patients with coronary artery disease. In patients with coronary artery disease, nicotine may cause coronary artery vasoconstriction. Myocardial infarction has been rarely associated with the use of nicotine patches. Some of these patients were also smoking (receiving a greater than recommended dose of nicotine) and some may have had underlying coronary artery disease. At least one case of intracerebral hematoma has also been reported.

In patients with coronary artery disease, nicotine may cause coronary artery vasoconstriction. This can be important to patients with ischemic heart disease.

In patients with coronary artery disease given transdermal nicotine for smoking cessation, the following have been reported: new ventricular and supraventricular tachycardia, increase in PVC frequency, less supraventricular arrhythmia, less arrhythmia and lower heart rate, new ST segment depression, and an improvement in ST- or T-wave changes. The average heart rate and incidence of arrhythmias or angina has not been shown to be significantly different from baseline while smoking and during transdermal nicotine therapy in patients with coronary artery disease.

Myocardial infarction has been rarely associated with the use of nicotine patches. Some of these patients were also smoking (receiving a greater than recommended dose of nicotine) and some may have had underlying coronary artery disease.

Respiratory

Respiratory side effects have included bronchospasm in patients with preexisting asthma. It has been associated with the use of nicotine nasal spray and inhaler. Sore throat reported in at least two patients has been associated with the use of the nicotine gums.

Dermatologic

Dermatologic side effects have included itching and local erythema at the patch site in up to half of patients treated. Skin irritation rarely required drug discontinuation. Contact dermatitis due to nicotine or the contents of the nicotine transdermal patch has been reported. Nicotine gum has been associated with increased sweating.

Gastrointestinal

Gastrointestinal side effects have included nausea, dry mouth, dyspepsia, and ........ with the patch and gum formulations in approximately 6% of patients. Use of nicotine gum may also cause hiccups, flatulence, increased salivation, stomatitis, tooth disorder, glossitis, and unpleasant taste. The use of nicotine has been shown to decrease lower esophageal sphincter pressure. Heartburn has been associated with nicotine lozenges in 5% to 5.8% of patients.

Nervous system

Nervous system side effects have been reported in 3% to 12% of patients. These have included lightheadedness, headache, sleep disturbances, abnormal dreams, irritability, dizziness, and tremor. Stroke due to severe cerebral artery vasospasm has been reported in a patient with a recent history of subarachnoid hemorrhage shortly after applying a 10 mg nicotine patch.

Musculoskeletal

Musculoskeletal side effects have rarely included arthralgias and myalgias. Jaw pain has been associated with the use of nicotine gum.

Hematologic

Hematologic side effects have included increases in platelet aggregation and enhanced thrombus formation.

Local

Local side effects have been reported most frequently with the use of nicotine nasal spray. Nicotine inhaler also produced local irritant effects including coughing and rhinitis in 40% of patients.

Endocrine

Endocrine side effects have included hyperinsulinemia and insulin resistance during the long-term use of nicotine gum.

Metabolic

Metabolic side effects including at least one case of hyponatremia and syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone (SIADH) have been reported.

A 39-year-old male in good health experienced hyponatremia and syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone (SIADH) after being administered a nicotine patch. The patient presented complaining of a worsening cough that had progressed over the past month. A chest radiograph showed pneumonia with bilateral lower lobe infiltrates. He was administered a nicotine patch (21 mg/d), ticarcillin/clavulanate, tobramycin, nebulized albuterol, and ipratropium. His urine sodium and osmolarity were 156 mmol/L and 550 mOsm/kg, respectively, confirming the diagnosis of SIADH. On day 12, his serum sodium was 130 mmol/L. The serum sodium continued to decrease despite fluid restriction to 128 mmol/L and 126 mmol/L on Day 14 and 15, respectively. The nicotine patch was reduced to 14 mg/d on Day 16. The patient continued the same fluid restriction and regular diet while the serum sodium remained low at 129 mmol/L. The nicotine patch was further reduced to 7 mg/d on Day 17. The patient was discharged after 18 days of hospitalization with a sodium level of 131 mmol/L.

 

[bigringo]

Whats your point crash lol

 

[Crash]

Whats your point crash lol

Lol I never have a point, all I'm trying to say is if e cigs work for you use 'em if the don't then don't. Vaping is a way of life for me though.

 

[BarryK]

Lol I never have a point, all I'm trying to say is if e cigs work for you use 'em if the don't then don't. Vaping is a way of life for me though.

Crash, I think we know that - but exactly how does your answer even begin to help Drasim, in any way whatsoever?

 

[Crash]

Crash, I think we know that - but exactly how does your answer even begin to help Drasim, in any way whatsoever?

Well I was just trying to show him that nicotine itself can be harmful for you

 

[Jefflan]

I think the point Crash is making is that inhaling nicotine is never gonna be totally safe. Compared to smoking though, vaping is something most of us are happier to be doing and in general, feel a lot healthier for it.

 

[drasim]

Hey all,

Sorry to drag an old thread up - I'm back in the game now (had to dust off the old 510s)

I had noticed that since leaving the 510 my legs got better after a week or so. I still don't know whether it was that or the intense gym work I was doing at the time which caused the leg aching.

I've decided to leave off the Boots PG and just buy the liquid "as is" - hopefully I won't get a repeat of last year as it was getting ridiculous.

Thanks all for the replies too

 

[tribalmasters]

Good to see your back on the vapes, we missed you!!

A mixture of intense gym work and PG is my guess! When I work out a forgotten muscle it is sore for a week or 2 with PG. In my case I still use the PG when I can't get a good VG flavour but have stepped down the nicotine to 11mg instead of 18 which seems to have helped me somewhat, I also use no nic when I am vaping too much hehe! Have you found your perfect juice yet?

 

[drasim]

Thanks for that

It's interesting you noticed an improvement also moving from 18mg to 11...I use 18 myself - maybe I should do the step-down too.

No perfect juice just yet, but then I've only used a few flavours - all enjoyable! What's your ideal juice mix then Tribal?

 

[tribalmasters]

I just bought a load of juice from Enjuice.co.uk, some really delicious flavours there!! Although they are PG they do come in lower and no nic flavours They got my order mixed up last time so I ended up with 5x 32mg bottles - YOUCH!!! Luckily the guy who runs it sent me a bottle of PG with my order of 5 no nics to mix with them to get low nic

Am vaping on Irish coffee right now and its delicious!! With the lower nic I sleep much better and seem to ache less but still get the throat hit in my Janty Stick and Ego Now if only they could invent a no nic VG mix that kept the throat hit!!!

 

[Bjorn Toulouse]

Chilli ??

on the sore legs I seem to get cramp every now and again since I started

VG helps but does make your mouth very dry

I would recon using 36mg would be better than 11mg because there would be less pg in the mix.

 

[Redcoat]

just my tuppence worth
I mix VG & PG 50:50 -still get excellent vapour and not noticed a dry throat since