Good buy Chris - Long time costomer LOST!

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sailorman

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 5, 2010
4,305
2,840
Podunk, FLA
As a longtime customer, here's my 2 cents. Do with it as you will.

Just about every time I go online to buy a pack of cartos or a battery or another small item, I end up with way more than I had originally intended. In fact, it happened just tonight when all I was looking for was a pack of cartos. I didn't go to MFS first only because I knew that box of cartos was going to cost me $6 to ship. Once my cart was full and the shipping was going to be $6 anyway, what should I have done? Abandon my cart and go to MFS?? No - I was past the point of no return. So MFS lost a sale that was ultimately bigger than I intended it to be. What I planned as a $9 box of cartos with a $2.50 shipping charge turned into a $65 order for which I had no problem paying a $6 shipping charge. It's not a huge sale, but I hope you get the point. It's almost like the "loss leader" concept; except applied to shipping.

Personally, I'm in a business where I ship stuff all over the world. I use USPS first class for 95% of it. Most packages are under 12oz. with a value of between $30 and $300. I ship with delivery confirmation. My postage provider, Endicia, provides it for free. In fact, the only people who pay for DC are the people who ship OTC with stamps. I only insure items over $100. The insurance is about $2 for $100. Out of a thousand or so shipments in the last couple years, I have not had a single domestic customer claim he didn't get his package. Two international shipments, both to Germany, have gone missing and I am sure one of those was fraud. The other one was reimbursed by my ins. company after the consignee filled out simple affidavit stating he never received it. My grand total of losses has been $140 for that one item because the customer refused to cooperate in the insurance process.

I'm in Florida. I ship in a heavy walled 6x4x4" box that weighs 3 oz. and costs me $.55, including bubble wrap. I can recover all my shipping costs for less than $4 on a domestic 10oz. shipment. MFS could do much better with lighter, cheaper packaging and a lighter overall shipment weight. You need not fear losing money on shipping small items via 1st class. My customers are no more honest than the average vaper. Delivery confirmation is cheap or free and tracking is not necessary on small packages. It's unreliable and inaccurate at any rate, unless you use Express mail. In fact, I just ordered from Gotvapes and ended up with tracking anyway on a 1st class shipment. I don't know how they pulled that off, but it is what it is.

Chris, you are doing yourself no favors by eschewing 1st class. Once a shopping list begins to generate a shipping charge within a couple of dollars of a $6 priority mail charge, most people will go ahead and add a few extra items anyway so that they get a faster delivery. Meanwhile, a whole lot more people who intended just to pick up some small item for a $2.50 shipping charge will find themselves adding enough to push them over the edge. You are losing sales by having a minimum shipping charge. You are losing more sales than you are encouraging. Nothing personal. I love your store, but you have lost many, many sales from me for that exact reason. The only time I shop with you is when I know in advance that I'm going to place an order large enough to justify the shipping cost. Most of my orders do. I just don't know it in advance. Those are the orders you lose.

Do yourself a favor and offer 1st class for at least the hardware items that are light and sturdy enough to be shipped safely in a bubble envelope. You can even ship a few bottle of juice in a sturdy box for less than $4 without losing money.
 

paise

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 9, 2009
382
146
I wouldn't expect too many to jump ship, pun intended, and follow you by leaving MFS.

Two things allow me to honestly and openly refer the thousands upon hundreds of thousands of people who read my reviews, read my posts on various support groups:

Question: Where do I find high-quality, best-flavored, and the safest e-liquid for my e-cigarette?
Answer: My Freedom Smokes. This is one company that mixes in-house, uses high-quality liquids, cater to those w/special needs such as those who cannot use PG or VG, and can create a custom flavor.

Question: What e-liquid is the safest to use in my e-cigarette without it gumming it up and ruining it as others have in the past?
Answer: My Freedom Smokes. High quality e-liquids so there is less chance of gumming up attys or cartos but there also has to be due diligence in cleaning these parts as recommended right here on ECF, in various areas here at ECF.


In addition to the people I meet and know locally and within a tri- to quad-county radius, there are well over 100,000+ people among the support groups I am a member of who want to get away from analog cigarettes so I became something of the "go-to-woman" or "expert on all things e-cigarette/e-liquid" among the lists. I recommend MFS e-liquids every day and twice on Sundays, as the saying goes. There is another little saying that qualifies here even more than the previous one... "You get what you pay for so if you want quality, you need to be willing to spend a little extra for the kind of quality you want regardless of what it involves." If you want quality e-liquid or starter kits, That's MFS! It's why there is such a high following of customers that keep the staff working their backsides off. It is my hope the staff members read these posts because I want them all to know how much I appreciate the hard work and extra effort they put into providing the best services and products they send out, especially where it relates to e-liquids.

If you want cheap, then go buy Dekang liquids. I'm sure that may be more to your liking but for me and the hundreds more like me, we will stick with the best quality e-liquid and ones that we can trust not to mention the fact we know what is in the e-liquid and don't need a degree in a foreign language to read it or understand it. Plus, there is the customized mixtures that Dekang doesn't supply.

Feel free to go but I wouldn't expect many will be following you. I know I won't be and the ones I've recommended to MFS won't be changing either b/c I receive the most compliments and thanks for steering these people to MFS and the custom, extended flavored, high quality e-liquids; the parts are simply a bonus. Just for your information, I am not wealthy; I am far from it. We have medical bills that I would give anything to pay off because those medical bills saved my husband's life; however, despite my own disabilities and primary income from disability, I save and budget each month to continue to order my monthly supply of e-liquids b/c I simply cannot mix them to save my life. Regardless, I feel it is worth the extra I budget and go without something else I may want in order to make sure I have safe, high-quality service and products from MFS than go through another vendor who can't promise what MFS can and does. It's well worth it. What extra I earn with my writing is simply a bonus that generally goes on bills or sketch pads w/sketch paper for my extremely gifted and talented daughter who can draw anything from memory, make-believe makeup, to real life in what she can physically see. It all works out in the end and I don't have to sacrifice quality or safety not to mention the fact that my business as does the massive business he does each month keeps the staff paid so they can pay their bills and the same for Chris and his family. You cannot honestly begrudge a man for making a living when in doing so there is quality levels that if not acceptable will not be sold and if something comes up odd, it will not go out at all because he cares about the customers as we are the ones who makes his business successful and rightfully so.






As a longtime customer, here's my 2 cents. Do with it as you will.

Just about every time I go online to buy a pack of cartos or a battery or another small item, I end up with way more than I had originally intended. In fact, it happened just tonight when all I was looking for was a pack of cartos. I didn't go to MFS first only because I knew that box of cartos was going to cost me $6 to ship. Once my cart was full and the shipping was going to be $6 anyway, what should I have done? Abandon my cart and go to MFS?? No - I was past the point of no return. So MFS lost a sale that was ultimately bigger than I intended it to be. What I planned as a $9 box of cartos with a $2.50 shipping charge turned into a $65 order for which I had no problem paying a $6 shipping charge. It's not a huge sale, but I hope you get the point. It's almost like the "loss leader" concept; except applied to shipping.

Personally, I'm in a business where I ship stuff all over the world. I use USPS first class for 95% of it. Most packages are under 12oz. with a value of between $30 and $300. I ship with delivery confirmation. My postage provider, Endicia, provides it for free. In fact, the only people who pay for DC are the people who ship OTC with stamps. I only insure items over $100. The insurance is about $2 for $100. Out of a thousand or so shipments in the last couple years, I have not had a single domestic customer claim he didn't get his package. Two international shipments, both to Germany, have gone missing and I am sure one of those was fraud. The other one was reimbursed by my ins. company after the consignee filled out simple affidavit stating he never received it. My grand total of losses has been $140 for that one item because the customer refused to cooperate in the insurance process.

I'm in Florida. I ship in a heavy walled 6x4x4" box that weighs 3 oz. and costs me $.55, including bubble wrap. I can recover all my shipping costs for less than $4 on a domestic 10oz. shipment. MFS could do much better with lighter, cheaper packaging and a lighter overall shipment weight. You need not fear losing money on shipping small items via 1st class. My customers are no more honest than the average vaper. Delivery confirmation is cheap or free and tracking is not necessary on small packages. It's unreliable and inaccurate at any rate, unless you use Express mail. In fact, I just ordered from Gotvapes and ended up with tracking anyway on a 1st class shipment. I don't know how they pulled that off, but it is what it is.

Chris, you are doing yourself no favors by eschewing 1st class. Once a shopping list begins to generate a shipping charge within a couple of dollars of a $6 priority mail charge, most people will go ahead and add a few extra items anyway so that they get a faster delivery. Meanwhile, a whole lot more people who intended just to pick up some small item for a $2.50 shipping charge will find themselves adding enough to push them over the edge. You are losing sales by having a minimum shipping charge. You are losing more sales than you are encouraging. Nothing personal. I love your store, but you have lost many, many sales from me for that exact reason. The only time I shop with you is when I know in advance that I'm going to place an order large enough to justify the shipping cost. Most of my orders do. I just don't know it in advance. Those are the orders you lose.

Do yourself a favor and offer 1st class for at least the hardware items that are light and sturdy enough to be shipped safely in a bubble envelope. You can even ship a few bottle of juice in a sturdy box for less than $4 without losing money.
 

dr g

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Mar 12, 2012
3,554
2,406
Paradise
First class is hands down the best USPS shipping option if you can use it, it is always cheaper for the same weight and the delivery confirmation is cheap. IMO sellers that offer first-class shipping always stand out to me as being especially customer-friendly. I definitely remember which ones do first class because if I only need a few items, or heck even one item, shipping is the biggest price buster.
 

Britches

Full Member
Mar 13, 2012
56
22
66
Westminster Maryland
I don't understand what all the problems are with shipping. They offer FREE shipping at $75 under that the is a charge of $5.95. What people need to do is buy more stuff. I keep adding stuff to my cart until I reach the $75 mark then hit buy. Some times it might take weeks. Right now I have several things in my cart and I am waiting for something that is out of stock to be available so I can hit buy. The main thing to remember is to make sure YOUR inventory is O.K. so you will not have to place a $2 order, and if you find the need to place a $2 order all that means is you did not buy enough last time, buy in bulk. I went here to buy Joyetech C atomizers but were out of stock so waited a couple weeks and finally bought the MFS brand to hold me over in case I ran out, then a week later they were back in stock so I bought 3 packs of them and some other stuff, got free shipping and have only used 2 MFS atomizers, so I still have 23 left and won't have to buy any for a long time. It is a shame that they did not have in stock what I am looking for because I did not get a chance at there last contest but oh well such is life. Keep up the GREAT work MFS
 

buffaloguy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2012
1,148
1,167
Buffalo NY
Ok, Im a new customer and have heard great things about MFS. Ill prolly have my first order tomorrow.

I had wanted to get in on the joytech products sale, but missed it by a day. Kinda ticked me that I couldnt still get the sale price, but I shopped around and came back and ordered anyway. Im also on a fixed income, btw. Which is why i missed the sale.

Nevertheless, heres the thing with shipping that one poster mentioned and was simply overlooked. I worked in internet marketing and business development for over a decade. Specifically in paid search and advertising, on the search engine side of the business. Therefore one of our primary tasks for our clients (online businesses, espec. retail) was helping them track metrics and increase conversion ratios.

Chris, you are doing yourself and your business a great disservice by not offering cheaper shipping, or even free shipping on smaller orders.

The key to success for online companies is repeat business. Customer retention. In this small thread you have people saying they bought elsewhere, because of the shipping charges. Regardless of what those charges are thats money MFS lost to another vendor and customers that were not retained.

There is a very high cost per acquisition for any online business. Offering cheaper shipping options should be a priority. Do you know how many people exit your shopping cart once they get to the shipping page? Are you tracking it? Personally, I saw those more expensive shipping options were really really expensive. epecially next day. Now my order qualified for free shipping over $75. I will say this. Had it not been for that you wouldnt have got my order and I spent more than I wanted to also just to get it.
 

buffaloguy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2012
1,148
1,167
Buffalo NY
Long story short.... The reason companies online work so hard to use every available shipping method and try to bring down free shipping for orders above the $25.00 level is because countless online marketing research studies show the top factors for generating new sales is, in this order: a) site layout and design -ease of navigation. b) locating wanted products easily. c) ease of checkout and SHIPPING RATES.

If they are too high, you lose. Btw, those more expensive shipping options (even with the $6 shipping) will scare alot of consumers away at those prices.

You will increase your business by lowering shipping costs and putting a ton of time and effort into exploring every single option including negotiating with shippers for better rates, which you can certainly do.

its alot of work but the payoff is great. im an expert in this stuff. dont care what ya got to say. i know my stuff. lol! thats my $6. ill bill ya the $220 an hour i used to charge. ;)
 
I certainly appreciate everyone's opinion on this. We are constantly looking into offering the best shipping options possible. We do track the analytics of our site and checkout very carefully. We do not try to make any money on our shipping rates, but we also have to be sure that we aren't losing a ton of money there either, and implementation of a first class shipping option is quite troublesome with our current product options and shopping cart provider. I assure you that we will continue to work on this.
 

buffaloguy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2012
1,148
1,167
Buffalo NY
Well I see that your using a third party cart. Its definitely easier, but if you want something more robust, open source, scaleable, and free with tons of payment gateways and real time shipping quotes I used to tell all our clients to use oscommerce.

osCommerce: Solutions

Good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions.
 

braveheart

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 24, 2009
117
63
Doha, Qatar
I'm kind of person who care about the shipping price because of one thing, If I try dealing with company and I liked them then I will order every two or three weeks again and again, then I will care about shipping. but If I just order something once then I don't care about shipping price.
overall I think that shipping price is one tool of marketing to make customers always coming back instead of going away forever. for me I stop my order to be honest because of the shipping price, I'm was waiting for coupon code to use it in my order.

Just my opinion, could be right or wrong
 

VaporPhreak

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2009
656
66
Indianapolis, IN
I agree on bringing the shopping cart in house to save a bit of overhead. However, I will put my votes down for OpenCart and ZenCart over osCommerce. I have used all three and while osCommerce is fairly feature rich out of the box, its slow and can be very aggravating to those new to it. ZenCart has a large learning curve but is stable as hell and has a LOT of free add on features and a huge community for support. OpenCart is the simplest cart to work with I have ever seen. While its not got a huge community supporting it, it is free and has plenty of add on features that are free or cheap. I'd be glad to lend a hand in anyway I can if you need it Chris. Just PM me.
 
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