GotVapes -

[Vapor2112]

I find myself writing this in hopes that someone on the ECF community may benefit, and that any vendors who may stumble upon this may be able to obtain a customers perspective regarding the importance of customer service in this industry.

As for myself, I’ve been fortunate enough to be a part of this community for several years, and was already dedicated to vaping when I joined. This community as a whole, and many of the vendors I have dealt with have been absolutely outstanding.

I believe more than anything, my disappointment with my experiences with GotVapes upsets me from the perspective of someone new getting started in vaping.

I find it very frustrating when a vendor promotes every new product as the best invention ever before its been properly tested, defends that product to the death, and often blames the customers for misuse as opposed to admitting there could be product defects. I for one, fully understand the risks involved in choosing brand new products in any industry, I would absolutely hate to see new vapers be turned off by false claims and disappointing customer service.

Feel free to view the ViVi Nova thread below for a prime example of how they treat their customers. I feel that I was trying to help present facts to find and hopefully fix some problems, but the owners of GotVapes quickly turned this around and promptly lost any future business I may have given them. I’ve included links to 2 other threads which illustrate this as well:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gotvapes/292476-vivi-nova-v1-review-thread.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gotvapes/206607-leaky-sapphire.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gotvapes/292473-cryptonite-c8-v3-review-thread.html

You will see many responses to anything positive posted, and either no, or very condescending responses to any post involving problems with any of their products. I also don’t understand why they defend them so adamantly when they are not the generally the designers (some input in the process maybe) or the manufacturer.

You will also find several statements as to how they will “make things right”, will “take care of their customers” and how everyone is “Family”, yet nothing ever gets done. I’m not sure how discontinuing the C8 for example helps anyone except those future potential buyers who will be fortunate enough not to be able to buy them.

It would be a huge advance to see vendors offering potentially reduced pricing on brand new and relatively untested items, or at a bare minimum calling out that there may be performance concerns with brand new items. Again, I’d hate to see someone get turned off by buying several products perceived to be the best only to have them fail. Surely not everyone reads the forums and reviews.

Below is a summary of what I’ve experienced with GotVapes several times now:
Lifecycle of each new product that I’ve purchased (from the sapphire, to several iterations of fluxo’s, C8 Cryptonite, ViVi Nova, etc…) from GotVapes
1 – Announcement – The latest ____ is about to come out, and its going to blow you away, best product EVER.
2 – Its hit, and the ___ is now available for sale, don’t miss out! Here’s a video showing how great they are.
3 – Problems will be reported in their ECF forum. No worries, we’ve tested these, sold hundreds and thousands with no problems, except for one or two people….
4 – More users will report problems – No worries, these problems are limited and plenty of people are having to modify and tinker with them are now able to make them work… Life is good. The people still having problems clearly can’t figure out how to use them.
5 – Remember all those problems we said weren’t problems? Turns out they were, and the manufacturer has fixed them! Hang on tight for version +1
6 – Repeat steps 3-4
7 – Repeat process from step 1 and forget about current troubled product.

I understand problems, I understand addressing them, but admit they may exist, and keep people informed.

My decision, has already been made to take my business elsewhere, based on the comments posted towards myself and others in the community who were only interested in helping the community and whose only expectation was to be treated with honesty and respect.

Unfortunately, I’m sure there will be some form of backhanded response from either one or both of the owners of GotVapes. I will gladly respond to any legitimate reply this may receive, but refuse to get in an argument to go nowhere.

I will get off of my soapbox before it crumbles beneath me.

 

[oldsoldier]

Before anything further happens in this thread I would like to point out that the GotVapes Sub forum is moderated and operated by GotVapes staff. This is their place on ECF where they can conduct business in the manner they choose. The staff does not get involved in their decisions and will only step in in cases where there is an egregious violation of forum rules.

It is their house and their rules, as long as they follow the rules of their "lease" ( if we want to use this analogy to describe the situation) we don't get involved (as their landlords).

As long as the conversation remains civil I will not close this thread, should a GotVapes rep decide to respond.

 

[badkolo]

We handle our customers and have a very happy base, some people feel the need to act rude or inappropriately but will not allow that in our forum, nothing more needs to be said, people with actual issues can contact us and we will take care for them like we alway have, stuff like this seems overboard and seems to have a evil agenda behind it , so i wont be responding any further

The people of ecf can see whats actually going on.

 

[dannoman]

Hi vapor2112,

Anytime you introduce a new product, and we are always on the lookout for something that can give the vapor more choice, you will have some who love it and some who may have some issues. That is true of any product any vendor releases, ECF forums are testimony of this. There is no vaping product that is universally liked or accepted.

Because we are very active on ECF, and many supplier forum owners have personally told us they purposely keep a low profile as they know how 'brutal' things can be, because we are so very active and try to help out as much as we can, for ANY issue, our sub-forum attracts alot of visitors and alot of posts. We don't shy away from any of that, as a matter of fact it makes us appreciate what we are doing more, as we know people are very passionate about their vaping.

Therefore we get a multitude of different posters, some happy and some frustrated. We DO try our very best to help them, some give great suggestions for other vapers, etc. Of the three products you mentioned above you have that same dynamic working. We are HERE and we don't shy away from any of it, which is certainly credit-worthy.

Though, it is our forum. If someone comes into our forum and really, is very obnoxious, even insulting, that is just plain rude. We have a right to moderate our forum if we deem necessary.

On the particular post you speak of, where you felt scolded, I approached, initially, a general piling on that was occuring after Chris informed the thread that any issues they may be having with the ViVi Nova, we were proactively taking to the VISION development team (which we did and they were very grateful and started testing to see if they could replicate any of the issues of any that were having issues). The 'piling' on was about 4 posters who started pressing Chris about what was the nature of what he was going to do for the people with issues, pressing and intimating that he was going to replace units, etc., and it wasn't that so much, but they started to get obnoxious, insulting and denigrating in their posts. It was getting out of control, I put my foot down. Sometimes as a mod that is a good thing to do as general ECF moderators also, at times, feel the need to step in.

As a result of that, we were able to bring the thread back on track (Briar, an ecf member, aggregated the info for us in an excelent post that we forwarded directly to the VISION development team) and it is actually a very vibrant thread now, with many reporting great success out of the box, some also having greatly benefitted by posts that gave suggestions and tips and some still reporting what their experience has been. We freely encourage people to express their experience as VISION is actively monitoring that thread to try to help them make the Nova product even better.

Things can get out of control on a general forum and some moderation is necessary to keep a forum useful and cogent for the general public and things can be more constructive, instead of people simply venting, and I might add, at times, venomously, as an outlet for their frustration with a particular product. That does no-one any good and obviously a vendor forum has more need at times of moderation to make it a useful appendage for support, where we have the privilege of providing information on our products and providing this super-support (I say super because the support we give there can go far and above what you can get out of a simple ticket submitted - in the forum we have time to elaborate on a particular issue more thoroughly, especially as we know it is possibly going to help a wider audience).

• We recently had a new user who was havng fits with our new CE2, the Fluxomizer Supreme. As she went through the forum she saw suggestions on this and that, she tried them and was still having problems. I took the opportunity to even do a video for her addressing her issues directly. Now, this product has been a product many users mod, as with alot of products, we have people who love to tweak them. She was a beginner and she had issues and I showed with a straight video unwrapping of a new CE2, filling it and vaping it, with some simple basic tips, that the product doesn't normally have to be modded (you can see this video in our forum and on youtube.com/gotvapes). I never mod my CE2's. But some do. When a new vaper sees all of the modding info out there they automatically assume they have to do the same thing, which is why I made the video to try to show it is a product that most of the time can be used right out of the box. So...issues are part and parcel of the experience and in our forum we take it all and address it head-on, even to the point of taking the time to do video responses (that we hope, of course, will benefit more than one or two particular users).

I said this to give an example that, just because you point to threads where people have 'issues', that is not inherently 'bad' as you seem to intimate. Issues arise for various reasons and including someone needing help with using a product, who is new, etc. Instead, this is really quite good, obviously. They can come to our forum, say what is going good or what they may be having issues with and we ARE THERE, we don't shy away from anything. Again, I repeat, we both know firsthand (Chris and I) of vendors, many, who in their own wisdom, shy away from too much activity on the forum because of the 'hassle'. I think we are a GREAT example of what and why this forum (ECF) was created. This is why I love/have-loved ECF even before I became a vendor.

 

[Vapor2112]

@Bad,
Unfortunately, that is the type of response I personally don't find helpful. I'm pretty sure that the feedback I've provided has been surrounding actual issues. Just because an item doesn't arrive DOA doesn't mean the product may not have real / tangible issues...
I assure you I have no evil agenda... As a matter of fact, before I read these responses, I also realized that while I got frustrated enough to post this, I've never taken the same ambition to post positive vendor reviews and will be doing so over the next several days. I've made vendor and product recommendations, but haven't taken time to praise some of the vendors I've had great experiences with in the Reviews of Suppliers - Positive forum, and I should...

@Dan,
I appreciate your response, and hope you'll take the same time to read mine below.

First off, I fully appreciate that you guys as vendors take the initiative to:

• Be on the leading edge of new products
• Seek feedback to these newly released items
• Work with the manufacturer's when possible to correct issues that occur

I understand that being on the leading edge presents its own set of unique risks / challenges, and am familiar with several vendors, as you mention, who wait for things to play out prior to carrying a new item.

I can't imagine you guys would lose any business by putting these risks on the table at the time of any new product launches... In all honesty, what I said in my original post here is how it comes across. Each new product is touted to be the holy grail of the vaping world... It looks to be happening again with the new "Scorpion". Maybe it will be the best thing since sliced bread (still not sure what the world compared things too before the first loaf of bread was sliced, but I digress).

I agree 100% with your business model itself, its the presentation and often follow-up that, in my opinion (which is only that) is lacking.

Now with all of this being said, while the internet, ECF, even text / email messages are great and have brought the world closer, sometimes things get lost in translation, and we (myself included) need to be more careful than ever as to how we come across and may be interpreted. I agree with the need to moderate within ECF, your forum, and as a general rule.

I truly started each of those review threads with the best of intentions to be helpful to the community and to provide you guys with honest feedback. I do know and believe that you work with the vendors whenever possible to make improvements. Perhaps it was I that took your response too directly as pointed at me, but regardless, still feel it was inappropriate from a customer service perspective. Believe me, my tongue has permanent scars from biting it when trying to help customers... The only thing I asked in response to Bad was what he meant by "taking care of" the problems and customers. While I can't speak to others, I was not looking for handouts, etc... Just some clarity to that statement.

Whether your comments were directed at myself or not, they still felt inappropriate in public forum.

This next part may be taken the wrong way, but since I've called out what I feel to be problems, I'd also like to offer what I feel would be appropriate resolutions. I'm not by any means trying to tell you how to run your business, just offering a customer's perspective...

• Be upfront about new products. If they are not fully tested, just let us know. Many are very willing, and I've seen many offers to be "test subjects" for these products.
• If negative feedback is received, take it in stride. Most people understand that you guys don't build these things, and are doing your best to help.
• Openly admit when there may be "opportunity". Responses to threads filled with reports of issues shouldn't be brushed off with statements like "only a few are experiencing this and we've sold x quantity". Honestly, I've seen this type of statement posted while most were still stalking their mailboxes... Hearing there are no issues, then seeing posts that the vendors are fixing it is painful, and personally makes me feel that the feedback wasn't valued at the time it was given.
• Continue offering solutions - even if perfected, there will always be situations they don't work in. Many different liquid viscosities out there, etc... We all get that... Some people do try to use at crazy voltages, etc, get that too...

Personally, I think you could even further capitalize on being the first to release these products if you were just more upfront about the fact that there may be issues with round one. Again, I'm not personally looking for handouts, but a great example is the C8's. I ordered several, they were dry hit city, to the point that Bad seemed to agree in that thread and said they'd be discontinued. That leaves the purchasers with a bad taste (literally and figuratively ). PS, I opened one and there was a TON of wick wrapped in the base, I think it was chocking it (I honestly couldn't bring myself to post this your forum after the recent exchanges). Back on topic, why not offer those customers a coupon code for x % off their next purchase? Or maybe your recommended carto at a discounted price? I'm saying free, or even at cost, but there needs to be a way to admit to paying customers that the product may have been sub-par, and to provide a peace offering of sorts as a thank you for our patience and commitment to the community?

I'm sorry for rambling yet again, and I truly hope you take my feedback and commentary as an attempt to be helpful, or at least share my opinions with you as opposed to an attempt to be argumentative. That will get neither myself nor the community anywhere.

As I said in my post in your forum, I'm simply asking to be treated with the same level of respect that I'm sure you'd like to receive as well. My decision to stop shopping with you was based solely on the comments that were made, and the way issues have been handled, I've always thought you bringing new products out quickly, and being active in the community are valuable.

If you feel anything I've said has any merit, or if you'd like to discuss, feel free to respond, or PM me. If you want to speak in person, PM me with a phone number or ask for mine and I'd be happy to talk.

@oldsoldier,
Understood, agreed, and I appreciate the time you guys take as Mods here to help keep things on track and productive. I like the "lease" analogy, I've never seen it put that way, but its a perfect description...

 

[Vapor2112]

I just wanted to take a moment to add to this, Chris / Dan, I'm assuming you don't mind me posting this update, but if for any reason you do, just PM me and I will edit.

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't add to this thread that the guys at GotVapes have committed to offering updated replacement parts for their ViVi Nova at a very reduced price for those who have purchased and experienced issues with the initial batch.

I for one, think this is a great step in showing their customers and the community as a whole that they do in fact want to make good on issues experienced with first run products. I surely hope this is successful, and that this sets a trend for future new product releases as well. I say this not trying to be negative about any upcoming first run products, but knowing its the real world and these things can, do, and will happen.

Thank you to Chris and Dan for a step in the right direction..