Harvard Eliquid Study Today

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Mazinny

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What are you referring too. The term covers any or all lung related illness no mater
what technical name is given. What expertise do you have to assert otherwise?

Regards

Mike
Are you serious or are you just trolling now !? The term covers only "dust related" lung related illnesses, not all of them. Hence Pneumoconiosis. Coni related to the Greek "konis" meaning dust. It's by definition. What expertise is needed ?

Speaking of expertise, i haven't even attempted to reach a conclusion precisely because i don't have the expertise to do so. Those that have reached a conclusions might need to divulge their scientific credentials. Any takers ?
 

Douggro

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Speaking of expertise, i haven't even attempted to reach a conclusion precisely because i don't have the expertise to do so. Those that have reached a conclusions might need to divulge their scientific credentials. Any takers ?
I've drawn inferences, but no conclusions. ;)
 

Jman8

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Decades of usage of fog machines blowing massive PG/VG clouds, maybe?
They are used for 40 years by now, with no documented serious health problems at all.

Maybe works for me.

But we won't know for sure until year 200. This is why I'm starting a thread for unflavored-free eliquid. Because I care.
 
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VNeil

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Dude, what challenge ? Why are you being so contentious.

I am not even claiming that diacetyl powder unequivocally causes B.O. All i am saying is that NIOSH suspects diacetyl is a culprit and not one scientists has distinguished potential harm based on the form factor of diacetyl. If you know of one, please indicate. I would be grateful.
I'm contentious? I simply made an observation that all these longer term causative agents are associated with dusty industrial environments. You are arguing the point endlessly, yet you have twice now refused to supply a contrary observation. And I'm the contentious one?

My observation stands until evidence to the contrary is provided.
 

VNeil

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You mean like this part?
"Laboratory studies of diacetyl administered by inhalation show destruction of the lining of the respiratory system"
No, this part....


  1. A cause-effect relationship between diacetyl and bronchiolitis obliterans is difficult to assess because of mean diacetyl exposure levels ranging over four orders of magnitude for workplaces with affected individuals. In addition, food-processing and flavor-manufacturing employees with this lung disease were exposed to other volatile agents (CDC 2007; Kanwal et al. 2006; Kreiss et al. 2002; Kullman et al. 2005; NIOSH 2004, 2006).
  2. Workers at a microwave popcorn production plant exposed to airborne diacetyl had an increased prevalence of many health effects, including unusual fatigue (Kreiss et al. 2002).
 
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twgbonehead

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Risks are unknown. May be exaggerated.
But it looks like quite a few juices on the market exceed safety limit for industry workers.

How about cigarettes? How many of those on the market violate OSHA regulations, and for how many substances?

Funny how you don't hear about cigarettes; seems the smoke from cigarettes is as closely-guarded a secret as what's in them.

If you live life in black and white:

Cigarettes: Bad. Vaping: Bad. Abusing children: Bad. Parking illegally: Bad. Murder: Bad. Jaywalking: Bad.
Most of these are true. Not all the same.

And the gov has a convenient pattern of "turning their head and coughing" when there's big money involved, or when it's they who
are responsible:
EPA Gets Americans 129 Years Of Jail Time As Agency Workers Go Unpunished After Spilling Toxic Mine Waste
 

skoony

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Are you serious or are you just trolling now !? The term covers only "dust related" lung related illnesses, not all of them. Hence Pneumoconiosis. Coni related to the Greek "konis" meaning dust. It's by definition. What expertise is needed ?

Speaking of expertise, i haven't even attempted to reach a conclusion precisely because i don't have the expertise to do so. Those that have reached a conclusions might need to divulge their scientific credentials. Any takers ?
It means any and all lung related illness no mater what the cause.
That is a concept hard not to understand. Hang in there it does get worse.
Divulge what? Are you so presumptuous as to dictate our or my expertise as a criteria to have relevance ?
And at the same time claiming your pontifications are as pure as the driven snow?
It's the dust until an authoritative source says it's not.
I can,will and,go forth into the future saying this.
If In the future I am proven wrong I will be very embarrassed and apologetic.
I am willing to take that risk.
Boldly Respectful
Mike
 

YoursTruli

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:facepalm:
I have cited my sources. Kindly cite yours.
Respectful Regards
Mike

as I said before your own "source" that you keep citing to support your theory contradicts what you are contending concerning the powder form

Emission of diacetyl (2,3 butanedione) from natural butter, microwave popcorn butter flavor powder, paste, and liquid products. - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
In microwave popcorn workers, exposure to butter flavorings has been associated with fixed obstructive lung disease resembling bronchiolitis obliterans.

Inhalation toxicology studies have shown severe respiratory effects in rats exposed to vapors from a paste butter flavoring, and to diacetyl, a diketone found in most butter flavorings.

To gain a better understanding of worker exposures, we assessed diacetyl emissions and airborne dust levels from butter flavorings used by several microwave popcorn manufacturing companies. We heated bulk samples of 40 different butter flavorings (liquids, pastes, and powders) to approximately 50 degrees C and used gas chromatography, with a mass selective detector, to measure the relative abundance of volatile organic compounds emitted.

Air sampling was conducted for diacetyl and for total and respirable dust during the mixing of powder, liquid, or paste flavorings with heated soybean oil at a microwave popcorn plant. To further examine the potential for respiratory exposures to powders, we measured dust generated during different simulated methods of manual handling of several powder butter flavorings.

Powder flavorings were found to give off much lower diacetyl emissions than pastes or liquids.
The mean diacetyl emissions from liquids and pastes were 64 and 26 times larger, respectively, than the mean of diacetyl emissions from powders.
The median diacetyl emissions from liquids and pastes were 364 and 72 times larger, respectively, than the median of diacetyl emissions from powders.
Fourteen of 16 powders had diacetyl emissions that were lower than the diacetyl emissions from any liquid flavoring and from most paste flavorings.


However, simulated handling of powder flavorings showed that a substantial amount of the airborne dust generated was of respirable size and could thus pose its own respiratory hazard.

Companies that use butter flavorings should consider substituting flavorings with lower diacetyl emissions and the use of ventilation and enclosure engineering controls to minimize exposures. Until controls are fully implemented, companies should institute mandatory respiratory protection for all exposed workers.
 

sparkky1

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That's all well and good, but I think it would be best to avoid a flavoring component that has been shown to cause destruction of the lining of the respiratory system. ;)

Or not work at a popcorn factory mixing 800 mean pounds a year............
Flavoring company's are well aware of whats going on and I would be willing to bet you will see all the big company's have flavoring without 2,3-butanedione, two of them took it out years ago, it's 2,3-pentanedione / Acetoin that has been used and now butyric acid, and yes all three are in cigarettes, the first two are structurally related to diacetyl, I've read numerous studys on cigarette damage to lungs and not one has mentioned flavorings related disease and these were chemist, pulmonologist specialist, and Phd toxicologist I might add, they have a clue what diketones are to say the least.
 

skoony

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You mean like this part?
"Laboratory studies of diacetyl administered by inhalation show destruction of the lining of the respiratory system"
In rats. I will address this in the future.
That's all well and good, but I think it would be best to avoid a flavoring component that has been shown to cause destruction of the lining of the respiratory system. ;)
In who's system and when?
as I said before your own "source" that you keep citing to support your theory contradicts what you are contending concerning the powder form

Emission of diacetyl (2,3 butanedione) from natural butter, microwave popcorn butter flavor powder, paste, and liquid products. - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
In microwave popcorn workers, exposure to butter flavorings has been associated with fixed obstructive lung disease resembling bronchiolitis obliterans.

Inhalation toxicology studies have shown severe respiratory effects in rats exposed to vapors from a paste butter flavoring, and to diacetyl, a diketone found in most butter flavorings.

To gain a better understanding of worker exposures, we assessed diacetyl emissions and airborne dust levels from butter flavorings used by several microwave popcorn manufacturing companies. We heated bulk samples of 40 different butter flavorings (liquids, pastes, and powders) to approximately 50 degrees C and used gas chromatography, with a mass selective detector, to measure the relative abundance of volatile organic compounds emitted.

Air sampling was conducted for diacetyl and for total and respirable dust during the mixing of powder, liquid, or paste flavorings with heated soybean oil at a microwave popcorn plant. To further examine the potential for respiratory exposures to powders, we measured dust generated during different simulated methods of manual handling of several powder butter flavorings.

Powder flavorings were found to give off much lower diacetyl emissions than pastes or liquids.
The mean diacetyl emissions from liquids and pastes were 64 and 26 times larger, respectively, than the mean of diacetyl emissions from powders.
The median diacetyl emissions from liquids and pastes were 364 and 72 times larger, respectively, than the median of diacetyl emissions from powders.
Fourteen of 16 powders had diacetyl emissions that were lower than the diacetyl emissions from any liquid flavoring and from most paste flavorings.


However, simulated handling of powder flavorings showed that a substantial amount of the airborne dust generated was of respirable size and could thus pose its own respiratory hazard.

Companies that use butter flavorings should consider substituting flavorings with lower diacetyl emissions and the use of ventilation and enclosure engineering controls to minimize exposures. Until controls are fully implemented, companies should institute mandatory respiratory protection for all exposed workers.
OK Einstein,where in this mush does it show and or explain which of the three forms of diacetyl are
responsible? Powdered diacetyl may have the lowest emission rate of diacetyl into ambient air but,
its the most persistent form. And above that find me just one source that claims the liquid or paste
form is of any concern. I am looking are you?
Mike
 

beckdg

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The only issue i have with this article is that it did not do a fair comparison to diketones that exist in cigs as well....

I don't smoke anymore so let the smokers worry about what is or isn't in smokes because it's not relevant to me as a vaper now.


Hey i am well prepared to accept if studies come out proving i am wrong...

Either way my lungs will be fine in the end because of my choices.

Wow

And

How can you be sure. We need more studies. [emoji14]

and wait some of you are the same people that keep defending diketones knowing there has been a link to others in other industries who have inhaled them having severe respiratory problems....wow talk about caring about people...wow!!

Not "other industries"

Industry. Period.

My personal choices are not an industry. Neither are yours.

We don't right checks to our vaping employees whom are subjected to massive amounts of airborn (whatever) for long hours day in and day out.

And what happens when we find out pg and vg are equally 1000s of times more harmful than any other compounds in our serums?

The holier than thou preconceived notions are stifling interesting conversation and the free flow of information. It's become too personal and emotionally charged.

Tapatyped
 
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YoursTruli

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In rats. I will address this in the future.

In who's system and when?

OK Einstein,where in this mush does it show and or explain which of the three forms of diacetyl are
responsible? Powdered diacetyl may have the lowest emission rate of diacetyl into ambient air but,
its the most persistent form. And above that find me just one source that claims the liquid or paste
form is of any concern. I am looking are you?

Mike

Um... This "mush" is YOUR source that YOU keep citing to support YOUR theory....
 
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